Making a Proper Shape - A Guide to Human Proportions

You drew an invalid comparison between accusations based on race and accusations based on behavior.



In Sl yes, in RL no. And the post I was replying to wasn't making its comment in specific reference to race as a concept in SL.

But even if one tries to do that; it is still an invalid comparison.

Race is still a status indicator, whereas sexual-ageplay, even ageplay are conduct indicators (for the second, in large part because no one in SL is a child - no legitimate member at least - all SL ageplay is role-assumption; conduct). Any comparison between them is simply invalid.

I understand the comparison Kyrah was making and think it is valid in the context of SL.

Edit to add: But she has purchased my support with her daily IMs of "Hi slut" and other abusive remarks.

This thread is so incredibly important with regard to proportions, could I ask that digressions be taken elsewhere? And I apologize for my own contribution to the digression.

Back to the subject: Does anyone else notice that their own perception of avatar proportions varies? I had been struggling with hair size on a shape that I'd thought was perfectly good, when I started thinking that the problem wasn't the hair but the head size.

There were contributing factors. I had cranked my graphics way down, with the result that there was no way that particular hair design would work, although others worked just fine. But even after restoring my graphics to their usual mediocre settings (as opposed to abysmal), and trying to resize the hair one dimension at a time, I couldn't get the combination of hair, head shape, and body shape to look right. Even more interesting is that I have other color variations of the same hair style that looked fine in the past. I believe that this particular color scheme, red with white tips, was interfering with my perception of the proportions.

Does that seem plausible? Does either the particular choice of color or the combination of colors affect our perception of proportions that much? Might this occur with clothing (not attachments) as well?

no i have noticed with certain hairstyles as well, that my head either seemed too big or too small. but when i go to adjust either the hair or my head size and shape the "illusion" is still there. perhaps this is a graphics issue?

How is your head sized in proportion to your body? Have you used the proportion kit?

Has someone in this thread asked me for the kit?

It can be located in Allana at the Forum Cartel Hangout on the top shelf of the freebie section in a white box with hover text over it.

You can also IM me directly and I will send it to you without a hesitation.

If you need help using, I will also be happy to assist you there as well.

I have only ever had to adjust hair size from one place and that is Calico, and that was only a couple styles, like Veronica, i believe. I only buy hair from 3 places and if possible i re-texture it to my special flavor.

Depending on the size of your avatar, if you are small enough and your head size is proportion to your body size, then yes, you will have a head shape smaller than average that will most likely require resizing hair.

I actually picked one up today, and took an LM of the place for good measure as well ^_^

Anyway, I'm still baffled about how "low" I have to go on the slider to get to a "normal" body length of"only" ~6ft2.
I got to one simple conclusion though: tall people are freaks!
If anything, existing avatar shapes could really do with some down sizing.

Its past time for a new Avatar model/mesh anyhow.

As it is .. Even the best proportioned shapes are lacking.

Beebo and I played around with one of those proportion charts a few months ago.

While you can get some of the proportions close .. others there is no way

A prime example ..
Its not actually possible to make that neck/shoulder transition with the SL shapes.

If I remember right ..

60 height/ 60 torso length / 60 leg length for men is pretty close to 6'2"

For women it would be 80/80/80 or thereabouts.


Those three sliders affect height. Neck length also has an effect but its much less measurable.

That's fairly typical of our visual capabilities in any case. The capacity to balance what we know or think we are seeing with what we are actually looking at is one of the most vital qualities of a good draughtsman.

Also our vision can be skewed by the predominant half of the brain. We tend not to notice this because of course that is *how* we see. A classic trick is to hold a drawing up to the mirror where deficiencies of composition and proportion will immediately become apparent in the reverse image. For this reason some artists use onionskin or fine tracing paper to draught preliminary sketches, turning the sheet regularly to check that the composition is not drifting off balance.

That said, foreshortening tends to be exaggerated in SL even when the camera is positioned for only a very slight overhead view. I've looked into everything from the graphics card to the aspect ratio of my monitor and the problem is definitely not on my end. The fact that the joints and segmentation of the mesh are derived from the female build does not help when attempting to get a well-proportioned male av.


Agreed. If anything draws me away from SL to Blue Mars it will be the increasingly decrepit avatar mesh.

ty Briana, i will be inworld tomorrow afternoon/ early evening.. perhaps, it is the slight cam angle that gives that illusion but it also helps to have another view as well.

A little of topic, but someone "thought" I appeared small today. Granted I was surrounded by Amazonians, but if I remember correctly my SL height is somewhere in the vicinity of 6ft.

I used to know where one of the check your avatar height thingy's was, but unfortunately it's gone now.

Does anyone know of a location for one of those? Not going to change anything, but just curious

there is one at the forum cartel hangout in southern Allana

Thank you

Edit: woopie, 25 posts in 3 years......that's almost 8 a year...LOL

dont use that scripted thing at the hangout. it will report you as being shorter than you actually are. instead, rez a cube, make it phantom, then stretch it to your height.

I like my favorite freebie:



https://www.xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&file=item&ItemID=1186421

There is one rezzed at the Cartel hangout. Completely unscripted. I'm sure Vael included it in her kit too. (^_^)y

here is the Erin guide to making a good shape in second life -

Create the shape as you see fit. RL and SL people come in all shapes and sizes.
My own shapes are not really proportional to reality.

SL is for fun, if it were a digital first life, there would be no point.

I think the overwhelmingly positive response to the information put forth in this thread says something different, and that is: a lot of people like proper proportions.

It is nice that you do not.

Besides, someone has to end up here:

http://wehatewhatyourewearing.blogspot.com

This is a great guide on proportions, and I wished everyone would read it.

However I have to disagree with the "use the SL scale since its there already".

Well yes its there, but the human brain does not measure things in numbers, it measured things relative to other things.
In SL most items are very big, why is a different discussion, but its a fact that they are now.

So any avatar with a SL scale of 1.60m (5'3 or so I guess), which is a perfectly normal size for a woman in RL will look terribly tiny beside almost anything.
Of course you can argue, that everything is just too tall. Sure it is, but thats not how the brain interprets this.

We see a human male and assume he's around 6' tall, unless we have indication to the contrary (seeing him beside something else we can judge as well).

Now well... if all people are 7' tall instead and the world around them is shaped to actually make that look "normal"... then well, 7' is the new 6' so to speak

There's this russion boxer, who's like 2.20m tall, when he gets interviewed by a 1.90m woman (which is very tall for women), she actually looks smaller than average. Even when I know that guy is a giant, as long as there's nothing else in the picture, the brain just interprets it as that.

That said, proportians are whats important. making a 20 feet guy with correct proportians in a world where everything seems "right" for that size does not look odd at all. Then the scale would simply measure something else and not feet or meters, but some abitrary scale.

Yes, giving him 17' long legs and stuffing torso and head in the other 3' looks anything but human But I already said, proportians is the important thing.

That does not just mean proportions between head and rest of body, but also proportians between your own height and the height of everyone else, and the world around you.
A synonym for proportion is "relative amount", or "relative size" etc.

And (i repeat myself now, I know), stuff in SL is terribly large, avatars are far too tall. But they match together (from the size perspective), and to look "average" again you have to be large as well.
It doesn't matter why its so large. They simply are by now, you say so yourself. You can't make everyone reduce size to more realistic levels. Yes, it would maybe have been better if avatar sizes would hav ebeen limited in the beginning, but its too late for that now.

And you can make good looking 2m+ people with the right proportions, you just have to be a bit careful.

I had a female toon once, I wanted to scale her correctly and made her 1.62m tall (5'4 ? something liek that), and it just looked terrible. I ended up making her 15 or 20cm or so taller to get the "small/average woman look".

So again: Great guide on proportions, and it would help some really stupid looking AVs to look better.

I make my shapes by eye, the same way I line up my prims - and to me that's a huge part of the fun.

But NOT everyone has an eye for balance. Shape making is a bit like sculpture. A lot of content creation requires a certain knack, artistic talent let's say. Not everyone has that, although many think they do - just like many think they can be a pro sportsman or American Idol.

So measurements are a boon to many I'm sure.

Combining several threads here!

Right when I first started SL I messed around with my avatar, and half the people I met thought I looked like Michael Jackson.

Pep (The other half thought I looked like Diana Ross. )

Ha well as you know, MJ idolised Ross, and it's said, may have even had plastic surgery to resemble her more closely. So not far span between the two.

I still haven't seen your av in world but I've seen your av's pic now in the cartel flickr. I can see a tiny resemblance to MJ even now. A lighter skinned Tito perhaps.

/me allows Clarissa to borrow his spectacles . . .

Pep ( . . . but starts to worry about the possible resemblance; are you sure you are not mixing me up with Charly?)

Well it was only a still photo, and I'm kidding, a bit. But mainly the hair and the jaw shape, yes.