Bad news of the day: They're thinking of merging the Teen Grid into the main one

I hope that LL has been made very aware of all the comments posted here and elsewhere. All the executives should be reading the postings. Pro or Con, there have been numerous well thought out threads here in RA.

A successful company will listen to the suggestions and comments not only of its employees, but also those of the customers who help keep them solvent. Whether you have a Premium Account or not, we are the ones who buy and spend Linden Dollars. Premium Account and land tier fees are the extra scoops of ice cream.

There have been many clever and creative ideas discussed here. I would hope that a few somebodies of the upper management will admit there are some possible solutions posted.

And maybe LL should do the most simple thing, upgrade the Teen Grid to make it more interesting. I had honestly thought their grid was more engaging than what graduates from there have said. Maybe LL should have a 'town meeting' over on the Teen Grid to get their feedback. Or are they fearful to get honest opinions from teenagers on how boring it quickly gets over there?

I've always been for the inclusion of everybody in my sim and associated activities - that said, knowing I'm in a grid full of adults makes that easier. I run a 'not broadly offensive' strategy that means I know myself and my friends will turn the air blue at times so I'm not going to yell at people for just anything, but I do draw a line somewhere. This is where not having specific rules is a benefit - I dont' think I'm being hypocritical, but knowing I can have a mature sim but still be allowed to not let 'anything go' is great.

Now, having to know where that line is *legally* and enforcing it is something I'm not prepared to do. I'd totally love to have a 'shared' area where we can hold events and get to know and involve teen players. But if I'm responsible when someone whips their pants off and runs round shouting "FIND THE SAUSAGE" then I'm not getting involved. If I can have that open environment [and know myself and everyone else is safe from that happening and any of us getting in trouble from it, then it's absolutely awesome. But what it sounds like is it's going to be a few heavily policed areas where teens get to see what they're shown and nothing more. And I really wonder what the point of that is.

So personally I'd like a magic button that allows us to open areas of our land to everyone but makes everyone keep their pants on and be polite. I'm up for that - but since I don't think that's the plan, I gotta say I'm out.

Why dont they just make a “MidGrid”. Teens could access for their educational needs but stay off the main grid, Adults could access it if they choose but stay off the teen grid, and those who want nothing to do with any sort of intergration could go on with their own Grid activities.

Removing sex from sl would be tantamount to SL suicide. I know there are people who dont engage in sex in-world. I understand their interest in other aspects of sl. BUT many people have long-term partners here and maintain healthy sexual relationships with their mates. Yes, this is a NEW experience. It attracted me (for example) because cyber and techno relationships offer a new and fresh dynamic to relationships. Plus, if I see a person is "partnered", I have to assume he/she engages in sex in sl. It's not "dirty" - it's just sex! S. E. X. My partner and I are adults and freely engage in sexual word play and camera work (that is really all it is).

The possible presence of teens in-world - as has been repeated over and over by all of us - is dangerous to all of us wheteh rwe engage in sex or not. But banning sex would produce a backlash. The "creative SL" has all but disappeared as we have become more and more urbanized. Even in my own sim area there are what look liek housing estates for f**k's sake! I fought griefers and had fun where these mortgage-type homes now exist. It's a shame.

And while we are at it, do we really want SL to be turned into a ESL classroom? Sure, I dont mind peopel picking up English from some aspects of sl but it's really NOT our business or our TRAINING to offer this sort of environment. Teachers wil charge for classes in English here and will save tons of money by using sl as their schoolroom. That is teh ONY reason why they want this to be an educational environemnt; teh profit motive.

Once more I urge Lindens to NOT allow teens onto the main grid - or at teh very least prevent them from entering the mainland and all previously designated mature areas.
Please keep teens out.

The owner of the parcel is the one who chooses what streaming
server is on the parcel. They can give permission for other people
to change it, too.

Where I live, kids cannot go into a bar; age is checked at the door.

There are probably a lot more kids (and "teachers" of kids) who would
want to get on the grid than the current adult population. And it would be
a never ending stream of school children, forced to log on each semester
for so many kinds of classes. Perhaps it won't even be free - maybe a lot
of revenue from educational and government institutions. And also,
SL can become the new MySpace/Facebook, now in 3D...

When I was 16 in school in 1974, three male teachers went out with three of the female students, one pair even got married when the female left school, the females were pretty mature, the male teachers were between 20 to 22 years old. It certainly didn't bother anyone at the time.

In the UK it is legal to have sex at 16. Does anyone think that those males were too old to go out with a 16 year old?

How much money do they have to spend? How many kids can afford $300/month for an island?

It's not how many kids - it's how many schools.

Perhaps the government will pay for it as part of the
no-child-left-in-2D initiative as part of the economic
stimulus package.

That is somewhat unusual, but in the U.S. of course the laws vary state to state and sometimes county to county and city to city. In Maryland minors can go into bars and even work in bars, but they aren't allowed to receive or handle alcohol. I don't think that the work share programs can go into bars (school programs), so most will be at least 16 or members of the family that owns the bar.

I believe it's about half of the states, plus some localities.

But all this talk of age-related laws about alcohol and sexual consent
are sort of side-topics. The real question is about money and about
getting Second Life on track to become the metaverse, rather than
some weird adult non-game. What better way than to totally
transform SL into something that kids grow up with? And then
someday there can be a series of other grids for adults to hang.

LL won't have to worry about the content, either.
It will be policed by the schools themselves.
And identity verification can be done by the schools
(eg. the government).

There are all kinds of possibilities, and the grid can be something
much different than it seems to us today. The trick for LL is in
managing transitions. (So far, everything they've done over the
years has resulted in outcries and predictions of the imminent
death of SL; actual results have been the opposite...)

I assume that kids on the grid will only be allowed on designated sims,
way away from everyone else. The difference is that the people who
control those sims will be able to allow adults on, moving that huge
administrative burden from LL. The owners will also police their own sims.
The kids can also have their IMs restricted to people who are on those
sims, and search can be similarly restricted, etc.

And the people who distribute the illicit communication objects will be ARd.
Until they figure out some fancy firewalling so that objects can only
communicate within the various allowed subnets.

Teachers are not allowed to have relationships with a student at their school who is under the age of 18 these days, so the position has changed somewhat.

Then explain the lack of use of the teen grid.

Or the lack of use of private grids (such as IBM's) when the universities and colleges have far more technical resources than you seem to think (mainframes, blades, etc)

do a search on facebook/myspace and lawsuits

See the legal issues that arise due to the lack of actually being able to verify an identity online, and parents protecting their spawn that they dumped on the big bad internet.

Well it really wasn't allowed then, but everyone saw it for being pretty insignificant and I guess the paranoia was so much less then.

The metaverse was a science fiction writer's idea, a plot device. It's cool, but it's not as useful as the Internet.

And, well, the Internet is "some weird adult non-game". Porn built the Internet.

Schools don't have any money either. And kids don't have any money. Porn? There's lots of money in porn.

As for "special sims kids can get into"? That's what the "teen grid" is. It's not even a separate grid: you can find it on the map.

This is a stupid idea for a start what teen would want their parent in SL with them?
I am age verified and had no problem doing so, I was also looking forward to them going further with it in as stopping those not from coming into Mature areas. I have found kids in the adult areas all on free accounts, so why help others by opening a door lets close it tighter. I come to SL to have time with adults if i want to be with teens ill go back to being a scout leader I pay good money to be a member of SL because it was adult aimed not like WOW.
Bad move SL oh and why have PG areas connecting to Mature so what is said and done in a mature sim is seen and heard from the PG?

Me too, but there are two big problems: First, I'd have had no more trouble doing it if I were only 12. And second, there are IDV-restricted parcels I can't get into, despite being age-verified, and others that my non-verified alt can get into with no trouble. So even if we ignore that the current verification process asks for information that it is actually *illegal* to supply in some jurisdictions (notably Canada), and that it's being handled by a third party of less than stellar reputation, the damned thing JUST DOES NOT WORK.

And that's just fine for the current intended purpose of IDV: public relations window-dressing. But if it actually were presented in court to support an argument that LL was acting responsibly to prevent little Timmy's molestation, that too JUST WOULD NOT WORK.

Whatever plans they have for merging the grids had better not depend on anything recognizable as deriving from the current IDV system or they'll set up for misery themselves and all their customers, teen and adult.

I've raised this point before, it's a very silly scenario. Mature parcels bordering PG sims and vice versa make the distinction between them pretty damn meaningless.

I am sorry to say that UK attitudes and values are pretty insignificant here. We are dealing with the continental USA and its moral codes and confusions and teh market opportunities of Asia with the moral demands that must be met there. A teen world will be a "safe" world.

In support of what you said about 1974 codes of behaviour - more recently (12 years ago), when I was 18, my lover was 56 and once my tutor. He is now one of my closest friends.

Teens on teh grid is really an issue of money-making. Education (epecially in teh USA) is a money-making industry. I dont think teh UK has "got there" yet. If classes can be offered via the SL world, Lindens stand to make significant bucks from software manufacturers, publishers, schools, colleges, universities and private investments. I like teh idea of sl as a artistic world or endeavour and free expression BUT I am sure taht is NOT what is meant by education and intermingling of ideas in this case.

I am cynical of educators and their curricula and motives. I am not totally ignorant of the needs of youth but I am certain that sl will be unable to maintain a control of the potential here. Before long, a major company will "move in" and teh sl world as we know it will disappear. I dont think it will be an immediate change because of teh recession but bear in mind, like any US company today, Lindens need all teh ready cash tehy can get.

Ofcourse, the majority of us are NOT predators and speaking as an adult the thought of a teen male is NOT a thrill. I prefer intelligent conversation ranging from renaissance to modern art and music. My partner/lover in sl is literate and charming. A dulllard-teen just wont cut it. I bet that goes for 99 percent of us.

BUT there are significant numbers of us who will be willing to turn sl into a family-oriented theme park. Maybe this is a move to "re-invent" sl for marketing, share-purchasing, and general public acceptance. Perhaps Lindens are looking to Asia (India and China, in particular) as potential customer/consumer bases. In which case, what we argue here means small potatoes to them. They will clean us up regardless of what we type here.

It's not that I am screaming blue murder at the changes coming but that I am saddened by teh general demeaning of teh real potential here for free expression and artistic merit. By bringing teens on we are opening the floodgates for confirming that we are heading for the lowest common denominators in terms of art, debate, expression, relationships, even education. We aremgoing back to school folks whether we liek or or not.

It has been a criminal offence since 2001, that's quite a big difference.

This is what worries many of us - that supplying age-related information to a third party is actually a FEDERAL offense in my country (and Qie's). The consequences for citizens of certain countries are serious and supercede any issues related to sl and Linden Labs. Our law enforcement agencies maintain that we not even supposed to carry our Social Insurance Cards with us on our person. Our driving licenses are also used as identification and are closely guarded by ourselves. Age verification is impossible.

So many of us will have to be extremelly wary of "new friends" in sl (and maybe old ones). What a shame that the real world's paranoia has slopped over to sl. To paraphrase a passage from "Villette" by Charlotte Bronte, SL is becoming a "building with porous walls, ... a false ceiling: every room ... has eye-holes and ear-holes, and what the house is, the inhabitants are, very treacherous."

The studants and educators had better stay out of teh art galleries in sl - they may see a bit of T&A. We wouldnt want art classes to be threatened by a nude.

Oh and there is an "education faire" about to start in sl - arent coincidences funny things?

Originally posted by blue while I was on the teen grid.