Is an exploit driving up classifieds prices?

...which opens up for the potential for a competitor creating a disposable alt, putting up an exploited classified for Successful Business XPTO, and see them go down as LL goes after the owners.

The "security by obscurity" discussion is interesting in this case because the two Classified exploits are on different points of the spectrum between:

* "How to 'optimize' Search with our brain-damaged implementation of GSA"--which all would probably agree has to be public, despite entailing the force-feeding of mostly bogus data into the system; and

* "How to exploit LSL2 packets to crash the grid at whim" which I think we'd all rather the PN not be able to figure out on their own before Mono sews shut that vulnerability for once and for all.

Seems to me that universally applicable rules are almost always wrong, and the "no security by obscurity" rule is no exception.

LOL PN haven't been able to figure out how to change the texture on their Bill Crosby & TNMT cubes yet

I suppose that the security by obscurity discussion is obligatory for forums, but the first mention of the hole in this thread was a big flashing pink neon sign pointing at exactly where to look. No need to wring hands over it.

The highest-priced classifieds are placed with well known avatars, there is a big profile button there so that anyone can see this, so the alt conspiracy theory is kind of irrelevant at this point. Then again, that might change now that the validation hole has been made more public.

Just to clarify...

I am the guy who bought this 500k Advertising and i am definitly payed 500k for it.
We are a RL company whos doing animations for other games and video productions outside sl too. Our Headquarter is in europe and advertising costs arent real costs, because they reduce the profit and after that the tax payments. What we do in SL is more strategy without any focus on the ROI.

The SL advertising system is the same like google adwords.
When i booked a SEM campaign on google, i payed 0,20cent per click one year ago.
Today when i book the same campaign its more than 4,00€, because theres a big competition with my keywords. Same situation is in SL now.... also called as capitalism.

I never thought posting my little jira about a Glitch in the classifieds would be such a hot topic. As well when Yumi Murakami found the 9999999$L classified glitch that was related to my little experiment I was in total awe! High 5 for Yumi!!!! It has been very intresting to see this topic snowball from a 50$L classified exploit to the economic impact, then on to the politics involved (Hard Rust I know you are a commie ;-P) Also I find it very intresting the posts some have made about sharing knolage about glitchs and bugs in the system to help protect, expose and bring into the public eye bugs and the people that use them. LL does offer a 10000$L bounty for anyone who reports a security flaw privatly I only found this out after my original JIRA post about the 50$L classified experiment. would 10000$L have made a diffrence to me IN-GAME, sure but not enough to keep thies quiet. To Touch on the point of high priced classifieds and "Do they really help your business in-game" here is an intresting post from Bimbo Princess' SLX forum "Classified Ads - maybe they'll fix em now " she basicly Reposted this Forum thread as well as the JIRA and here is what 1 of her posters had to say.

now see that the Highest paied classified is for 500001 $L dollars

simple math

500001$L = 1890.66$us

1890.66$us x 52 weeks a year = 98341.32$us

so in 1 year, some avatar is paying just under one hundred thousand dollars US$ to advertize thier business on SL? for that Price you could advertize your SL business during the superbowl and more people would see it!

Like OMG is that TRUE OR WHAT! I would like to see Stroker Serpentine have a Comerical for SexGen During the SuperBowl! if Janet Jackson can Show her Breast then Stroker I am sure can find a way to Fondle it!

Heh, try a minimum of $3 million for a superbowl ad.

- Justin

I'm getting the impression that Hendrik is a fairly new creator trying to make a splash into a highly lucrative market (with, from what I have seen, a pretty competitive product in a market somewhat starved for new content).
That seems like a prime candidate for a somewhat extravagant marketing blitz, and not a question about using 100.000 dollars over a year.

i promise... you will also find a 500k ad for my business next week... maybe also for the next 12 months but never at the superbowl

and hey...

98.341 USD is just 62.160 EURO... not much advertising costs for a european company.

They are fairly strict about what constitutes a "security flaw", though, and it also has to be unknown. I'm pretty sure the "run an alt into negative" would fail both requirements, so I don't think you missed out on the bounty. (And I don't mean that to diminish your report; just to note that I've heard about some fairly bad abuses which didn't qualify as actual *security* exploits when it comes to that bounty).

thats right...

currently we are producing animations in a absolutely new quality for sl.
im uploading new stuff every day... dances... huds.... etc...

but hey... this is not a marketing blitz... just a strategy... sl is a long time investment for us.

$100,000 USD is a long way from a Super Bowl ad but if people spending that much money were really smart they would work with Linden Lab to first make sure the system was ready for a massive influx of new accounts, the OI experience was utterly painless, the UI was intuitive, and then the rl TV and print ad blitz could begin. There would be so many people wondering what Secondlife is if they actually heard of it. Marketing is not something Linden Lab has been very aggressive about. I don't blame them. As it is, a serious viral marketing campaign would have so many new residents in here the system would croak.

I would love to see SL routinely handle a million concurrency.

To be honest though... give the $100,000 USD a year away to new residents. They will be your customers for life. Much more effective than a small classified ad with limitations on how it can be constructed. (I.e.; no formatting, all ads the same size, etc.)

Btw.. a hint for the lab... hire some accounting data analysts to develop some detection systems off the data warehouse. This sort of thing is a prime cost justification for the expense of a data warehouse.

@Hendrik Schroeder so you have established that you infact pay 500001$L a week for a classified. great at least 1 HONEST person with a high priced classified! but I must ask, seeing the exploits explained here for obtaining free classifieds or making a 99999999$L classified for the cost of 50$L as suggested my Yumi, how does it make you feel? As a person\company that is actually paying how does this bug, glitch, hack, w\ever make you feel about the cost you are paying when someone else can have the same priced classified for a Fraction of the cost if not free?

im sure that lindenlabs will fix this bug soon as possible.
and i dont think that any of the top8 ads is based on this exploit.

Exactly.

Yesterday the JIRA entry was unassigned.

Today, it is assigned.

coco

Kinda like "banking" in SL, huh?

The reason banking in sl failed was lack of education, lack of regulation, an overreaction by LL, absolutely crooked bankers (due to lack of education on who people were banking with and lack of regulation) Yes corruption was a huge part of it however it's wrong to say it was the only reason.

I think this thread has already shown three major problems with the classifieds - the exploit that Cheergirl and Wildefire found, the exploit that Dante and I found, and the real-life business interaction problem that's been known about for a while.

As I recall.. the Classifieds were originally a replacement for the Advertising sections on this Forum at a point when the forum was going to be closed down. They were originally in alphabetical order, but after every new business suddenly became called "AAAA Ace", they switched to sorting by price as an "ungamable" way of doing it. I don't think that, at that time, they were planning ahead for a time when real-life companies would be putting in huge amounts of money because they don't care or need to care about making a profit on SL (as Hendrik put it: "What we do in SL is more strategy without any focus on the ROI".)

No, I don't think anyone in the US is trying redistribute wealth so everyone has the same amount of money. Quite the opposite. Greedy corporations are working to corner the market on money.

Sorry, some days I am very cranky.


And then some I'm hellishly cranky. You caught me on a hellish day.

I have yet to see any proof that anyone is using this glitch. How many 999999999L ads are there? I don't see any.

I'd like to thank you for posting about this. I know many people in SL are reluctant to talk about business details in SL, myself included. Those are some very interesting, and very valid reasons for spending funds on advertising in SL. And it gives everyone some insight into the SL economy as a whole.

Read post #23 of this thread Yumi Murakami Shows he\she did infact find a 999999999$L classified exploit, and shows a screenshot of it in that post.

the 9999999$L classified is just a test to show that an exploit does infact exist. how many people are using it, that is not known, as well if it is used for a 50$L or a 50000$L advert that is not known either. Fact remains using this explit Yumi has discovered an advert can be placed for any ammount yet, only cost the avatar 50$L

Yumi, please explain to me what is wrong with someone spending their money as they see fit?

If tomorrow I want to start taking out 1 millon L ads for my product, I have that right. Spending your money on ads is not an exploit, simply because you have more money than someone else. It's Capitalism. And the fact is, a High priced ad is *not* a guarantee you make more sales. It's *not* a guarantee you are more popular. It's *not* a guarantee your product is better than your competitor. All it means is, you're closer to the top of the list, and that you increase your chances of getting noticed better.

Guess what, this goes on in Real Life all the time. Everyone knows Miller Beer, because they can spend millions on a Superbowl Ad. Not as many people know of Fat Tire Beer (a California favorite micro-brewery). I would venture to say Fat Tire may be a better beer. But they can't afford ads. Oh well. That is how it works.

Miller isn't 'guilty' of doing some 'exploit' because they can afford more advertising. They earned it. At one time they were small too. And one day Fat Tire may become a giant. It will depend on them working toward that goal, and growing their business, and maintaining a superior beer.

Samuel Adams was once a nobody beer, but now, they are world renown. It can be done.

It's how Capitalism and market forces work.

Read my post again. I didn't say there is no glitch. I said I don't see proof anyone is *using* it.