Why do we encourage mediocrity?

OMG!!! that is totally griefing the groove thang when they do that!

OMFG.. lol.. I would refer that person as what I coined in my post.... a Wannabe..

Don't get me wrong.. there are plenty of great DJs out there.. however someone said it right earlier, that there are club owners scrambling to find someone to stream.. My issue is the people who think djing software is Winamp and they "claim" to be DJs in RL for years, yet cannot do a simple backsell and frontsell, let alone know how to adlib and not read the darn event word for word..

Alot of djs today lack originality.. lack passion, lack creativity. Almost every dj that works for me has their 1 thing that you can stop everything and say.. "That is so n' so". Where it be how they pump the crowd or launch voting.. they all have their own shtik...

This is a big reason why alot of clubs go under.. some owners do not have the time or experience in knowing what to look for and that is how you wind up with lack luster performers.. Been to alot of clubs where a radio stream was more interesting then the dj.

why?
because ll have set the standard by which all in-world endeavours are measured.

HEY NOW! I kid you not! At one of the older vamp sims I frequent, I've constantly requested POLKA!! Just something different from the usual goth/industrial stuff.

And when the DJ granted my request.... He got tipped $L1000.

Heh! If I can think of some oddball song & the DJ plays it.... I tip more than usual.

No matter how good the music is or how nice the club looks, it boils down to, did the staff make me, as the customer, feel welcome? If yes, then I will stay, dance, and tip to show my appreciation. If no, then I usually leave after a few minutes. Staff in a club should make people feel welcome and at least TRY to include new arrivals in whatever is going on. Sometimes people just want to be left in their own little world and that is fine, the attempt was made. But if I go to a club and the owner, hostess, dancers, and/or escorts are either silent or having their own conversation and don't at least acknowledge my arrival, I figure they don't want my business and go spend my money elsewhere.

A club, no matter what type it is, won't last long if you don't have a staff that cares about it and you enough to help promote it. Which probably explains, at least in part, the high turnover in clubs within Second Life.

Great point. There's one DJ I listen to a bit that has a unique routine. He reads profiles, and selects music based on what he may find. "Hey, Look at what I found in So in So's profile." I thought that was kind of interesting, but a couple of the patrons of this club have taken to putting their song requests to this DJ in their profiles instead of lyrics or references to songs. It looks to be a great bit and the crowd really seems to get into it.

Then dont tip your not obligated to tip at all, Clubs in SL are for fun , you get to know the people that frequent the clubs hang out talk , dance just go crazy and have fun , they are many made up with people that enjoy to soicalize , dont go there and stand there like a twit trying holding a conversation with some of the people you meet thats what its all about

Speak for yourself. I cheer on average with a slightly bored "meh". Mediocrity can take a flying leap.

Owning or not owning a piece of software isn't the defining point of DJ legitimacy like you've suggested. Winamp uploads the tunes with just as high quality as SAM, or any other so-called "professional" home DJ software. When the stream for a large club is only a degraded 96k or 64k because they just HAVE to have 80+ connection spots, who flippin' cares how many sorting options or canned transitions the software has? It all sounds identical at those bitrates, reguardless of what program uploads the files.

I'm sure I couldn't frequent or recommend any club that thinks a DJ's "performance" outside of the music they play should command more attention than the music people go there to listen to in the first place. That makes for a DJ who is much more akin to a self-promoting gameshow host than a music club DJ, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who would find that annoying and mediocre.

Seriously?

Even though this thread seems to have evolved to focusing on DJ's, I'd like to offer a dancer's point of view to OP's question.

Yes, there is a lot of mediocrity out there in the club scene. I have lost count of how many clubs I have been to, either as a patron or as a worker, where the hostess rarely says anything, the dancers go AFK on the poles, and so on. In a lot of cases, this is due to complacent attitudes on the part of the club staff; however, I have frequently been subject to the other extreme of this problem. I'm talking about working my shift at a club, dancing for 20+ highly-talkative guests, the hostess is engaging everyone in conversation, and the DJ is rolling out one hot song after another. I and my fellow dancers are emoting our hearts out on the poles (and not canned emotes, either), even going to the point of delivering a unique, sensual emote every time we are tipped. By the end of the shift, I am exhausted in RL, and I look down at my tip jar and see that my two hours of exhaustive effort to 20+ people had netted me a whopping L$120 in tips. And it's not just me, but ALL of the dancers!

It is severely demotivating and demoralizing for a dancer to frequently end her shifts still fully-dressed.

Although a lot of club staff are just simply complacent, I believe a majority of staff (particularly hostesses and dancers) reached this stage through continued "abuse" such I described above.

I understand a lot of people don't have a lot of money to spend, and I'm not asking anybody to "give till it hurts." But common sense should dictate that if one cannot afford to tip, one should not partake of the service rendered. In RL, if one went to a dancer club, partook of the show (whether one was actively watching or not), and didn't leave any kind of tip, that person would likely be tossed out to the street and asked to never come back. It's not that extreme in the restaurant business, but eventually, a good restaurant manager will decide that one non-tipping party's continued patronage is not worth the high waitress burnout rate.

It is one thing to expect excellent service. It is quite another to expect excellent service, receive excellent service, and leave without a gratuity.

My point has nothing to do with "connection spots" as you so put it. IMO winamp is your run of the mill Mp3 player, an alternative to windows media player with a addon plugin to DJ..If you are DJing from Vinyl or Pro CD decks, then sure.. great choice to use it.. If you are Mp3 based however, a DJ who strives to do the best possible job with the tools that are availabe should look to SAM, VDJ, Trackit or other alternatives. Think of it this way.. what is the main purpose of the software.. sure it has a plug in but was it really designed to be used in this manner? I mean you can add parts to your Toyota Prius to make it amphibious... but is it a boat? no.. it's a car.

Bit rates have nothing to do with what I am talking about. The "codecs" are the same in virtually every piece of software that would allow you to stream.

If my opinion offends you that a dj is mediocre at best if he/she chooses to go with winamp so be it. I am not going to apologize. I mean think of it.. Why don't the great Jocks of the RL stations use a radio shack mic? That is what this boils down to. You want to be a real dj (if you are limited to Mp3) then get some real software... based on what it was designed for.

HERE HERE!... I fully agree with you... and you know I truely believe that the face of the Entertainment industry changed about a year ago.. Gone are the days when my fellow staff members (Security, hosts and Dancers) used to rake in 1-2k in a 2 hour shift.

I have spent alot of time talking about DJs.. but seriously Dancers and hosts are the least thanked people of the club scene. I, as a DJ, depend on you for your assistance greeting the patrons, talking them up, making them feel welcome and in turn that gets them requesting from me.. It used to me if the patron was given a warm welcome, made to feel at home allowing him/her to open up, talk and have a great time, it used to translate into great time and gratuities.. Now it seems like we have to sell our souls for 20L.

There are 2 sides to this... I have hammered the one side about lack luster djs.. but there is nothing more agrivating then someone who wins 1k in an event and doesn't even tip the staff that made them feel welcomed enough to participate. Or, better yet.. the person that goes out and spends 3k or more just before an event to do their best in the vote, requests 2-3 songs... and leaves without tipping.... And you really think I am going to play your request again? LMAO

If you think you're good, charge an admission fee.

Everybody in sl seems so afraid that it wouldn't work. But if you make a good work you should expect peoples to pay for it.

Well yes and no, I do sometimes thank people for tips, but to be honest I find the wholething tiresome and rather embarassing. I don't DJ for tips infact I rarely DJ at all as I turn down several requests to play a week, I DJ because I love music and for no other reason.

I am almost always very talkative when i'm in a club as a patron or as DJ and if i'm not it's because i'm in IM's with someone.

I DJ on my own terms, i'm not interested in the 'standards' or what is expected of DJ's I just do my own thing. I enjoy doing so, and i'm there for me not to provide a service because I love music and because ocassionally it's nice for people to be talking about the same songs that i'm listening too (as i'll frequently fire up iTunes when i'm a patron in a club).

Now lets say that somebody does not like my set, well, if they are not under pressure to tip then it doesnt matter does it. If they do like it and want to tip the last thing they need is a tip jar in order to pull that off.

I dont charge venues for working as a DJ, I dont ask the guests for money or expect tips. I just do it for the fun, and if I can make other people smile by being daft and sharing my music collection with them then that's grand.

I typically dont DJ just for a 2 hour set either, if I DJ, i'll DJ until I log off at the end of the night.

Nothing about me is conventional, so yes, that does meen I can't be arsed to thank anyone for tips. Sorry for the poor service, but then again, if you are having fun anyway does it matter whether I make a fuss over your tip or not? Surely the tip is a sundry, the important thing is you are having fun no?

Agreed on this...it's awkward as a tipper too and I'd kind of rather there was an equivalent of slipping a couple bucks in the jar when nobody was looking. It was the apparent contempt for the gesture itself that surprised me. I think most people are just tipping as a token of appreciation, not for the dubious reward of a public acknowledgement of their gift that translates to spare change in USD.

I'm willing to defer to experience on that point - maybe people have actually complained about the lack of praise for their contributions, in which case those people are jerks.

You would be surprised at the sort of complaints dancers (or, rather, their GM's) get for failing to render a lengthy emote commensurate of the tip amount. Fail to emote at all, and the dancer may quickly end up looking for a new job - in a new profession!

You are so cruel.

How good or bad I am is really not the point.. as well Who in their bloody mind would actually pay to get into a club here in SL? Why pay for great entertainment when you can camp for 2-5 L per 20 mins and listen to a radio stream or better yet something I have described in my previous posts.

I will say that my team of Djs and I are very confident in our abilities but no need to go into all that so I am not going to waste keystrokes on my point again.

For a dancer her emotes can be her own downfall as well..When i danced emotes were the least of my activity when i was on stage..Mainly because i learned early on that emotes end up talking around someone instead of at them or about the dancer herself..
That and everyone else was doing them..

Just like anything it needs to be done in moderation..More or less a good dancer will get a feel for people and be more than a pole dancer..A good dancer is one that has a bartender mentality that is there to take care of the people in front of her..
Learning about your customer right away and relating to them in a way that fits the mood they are in at the moment..
People see emoting and they see someone doing a job..
Most people sitting in front of a dancer are not looking for someone doing their job..They are looking for someone to talk to and vent or flirt with or whatever their mood is..

You have to pull the idea of money out of the conversation..If your customer is in a bad mood you find a way to make them smile..If they are in a good mood you make it even better..
You have to get them looking at you and not what you are..Emotes that are original or not will break a bond if you over use them..Unless you can fit them in a certain way on an individual basis..Otherwise you will just fall into the role as another pole dancer..
Then you are just that to them and not someone they see as special to them..

A dancer is not gonna lose her job for lack of emoting..Well maybe some clubs will do that but then again i never worked for a club that didn't let me do my thing lol

If you want to make money as a dancer you have to toss out the thought of money or routine and find your own style that works and show you are dancing because you enjoy dancing and the people you meet while dancing..
The money will come on it's own..you will have good and bad days no matter how good you are..
You will have a lot less when people know they have a place they have someone they can turn to that is more than likely there every night when the club is busy or slow event or no event..

Most clubs require 5 to 7 ours a week from a dancer for a minimum..I would watch girls come and go in one night doing their two hour shifts they would set for themselves..
They would be complaining about lack of tips or a bad night while i was putting in my 7 or more hours a night most nights and being there for the customers they were missing and clearing my jar over and over..

The problem i see with a lot of dancers and clubs now days compared to before is when the event is over the club is dead..
Clubs have gotten to impersonal with the people coming to them..they fall back on events as being the answer instead of working on public relations..

It's all about making people feel they belong and have a place they can call their place too..

I can't help but find it curious that you're so insistent upon having a regular, real typed-out conversation during a set, even to the point of complaining about gestures that interrupt or break up the flow of said conversation, and yet at the same time insist that saying "Thanks for the tip Joe" is so incredibly beneath you that you can't be arsed to type it out. I end up wondering what your "real conversations" tend to be about that's so much more important than a quick thanks. The weather? Peoples' neighbors? Politics? Your favorite song? Somebody's latest build? All things that are worth your spending several -minutes- discussing, but 2.5 seconds to type out "Thank you" is "not worth your time" and simply out of the question. That's incredible. I mean, I understand that you realize 50 or 100L isn't exactly a fortune, but the truth is that -nobody- is under that impression, and it's very much beside the point of the tip.

Other things you might find beneath you: holding open doors for people you don't know who are going to the same place (ESPECIALLY when the bastards aren't even carrying anything), and pushing another passenger's destination floor button in an elevator simply because you're the one right in front of the panel (but you're not the one going to Floor 4, so why should you have to push the button?).

It's not 'beneath' me, that's a concept you are super-imposing over your interpretation of my position, which is actually that I find the whole concept of tipping awkward and embarassing.

I'm not in SL to make money or to "work". I have a day job, and although I manage to go through life with naff all spending money I do actually earn a very respectable income for a youngish professional woman. I detest the concept of having an 'SL job'. I DJ because I love music, I really do love it, my family numbers several professional musicians and whilst i'm not a performer myself it seems I do have the music gene.

But "working" in SL I dont do, I DJ because it's fun, and i'm there just for fun. The moment somebody tips me it becomes about the money, about earning enough tips for my little micro business to turn a profit, and i'd rather not spoil my fun with money.

I'm in SL to play. Particularly, i'm in SL to play music - listen to music - chat to friends - and get annoyed at people's attempts to hold a conversation entirely on F keys. This is my entire purpose in virtuality, and whilst my view is not the same as everybodies I dont see why I should conform to an unpublished standard just because somebody might be offended that i've not put their name up in lights for handing me 5p under the counter.

I've never even understood the concept of the tip jar, it is a begging bowl. I can easily tip somebody without a tip jar (and usually do when I tip). Why would somebody who doesnt put out a begging bowl be expected to thank somebody for somebody throwing money at them?

Yes, I understand perfectly well that it's not about the money - but again, nobody, in all of Second Life, is under the illusion that a 20L tip is going to turn a profit for anyone. What matters is that it's a tangible expression of appreciation for what you're doing, that "costs" the expressor just a tiny bit more than simply typing out "your music is awesome" (which they probably also did as well anyway). In other words, when somebody is tipping you, what the money means to -you- is not nearly at all as relevant as what the money means to the person who gave the tip. Like Monopoly money, lindens may be essentially worthless in RL, but within the context of the game they have value - and that value depends on the person holding the money. For somebody who can't afford to pay into the game and makes his money by camping, for instance, 20L is an incredible amount and quite a gesture indeed - not only did the person like your performance, but he liked it so much he felt it was worth half of all the lindens he has. But since you don't care about lindens, his gesture means absolutely nothing to you. Well, ok, that's fine really - but how does spending two seconds to type out "thank you" TRULY, irreversibly "interrupt" your conversation about how much your pet sheds?

I'd say that if you don't put out a "begging bowl", and you reply to questions with "I never ask for tips", and somebody -still- insists on giving you something to the point of paying directly to your avatar, perhaps there's a message in there that's a bit more complex than "Joe Avatar has paid you L$100."

Let me ask you this: if somebody, in text chat, types out something to the effect of "Ms. Hax, you're a great DJ and I always love your sets", is it "worth your time" to type out a thank you to THEM? If so...why not the tipper?

Well I try not to put too much RL money into the game, so tips are always appreciated by me. I agree that it doesn't matter how much or how little. It's the fact that the person enjoyed what I was doing so much that they gave me some of their money. If someone says "I think you are great..." I always thank you. I have had people in IM tell me "I am sorry I can't tip right now but I will next time" I always tell them that tips are not needed. I DJ for the fun of DJing. This is why I hate some DJ's who say "Tip after requests" because that destroys the whole idea of why we are DJing.

If they have a few spare Lindens and want to share? I am all for it. If someone is broke but is enjoying themselves because of what I am playing? That's the most important thing of all. I don't know if it's the same for dancers (I know the few times I tried it, it wasn't) but I would love to hear a dancers side of this.

DJ's do this for the love of music and sharing their passion with others. If tips come out of it then it's a bonus.

20L??? Wtf, when i am at club and someone tips 20L to a dancer or DJ, i talk crap to them.

That is like 10 cents - 10 PENNIES.

Don't even waste your time. Just do an about face, and forward march away from the tip jar.




When I tip, i want a thank you, it is the only proper and polite thing to say. If you cannot say thank you for the tip i gave then I won't ever be tipping you again.

But hey that is me, and I never tip under 250L.