SL closing down??

I think I understand what you mean. Quite frankly, I'm a little stubborn and if anyone were to _insist_ I play along (or RP) when I wasn't in a RP sim, I wouldn't stick around. So far, that has never happened to me. For a stranger to insist I call them 'Princess', or 'M'Lord' or whatever, then yes, I also would think it was an indication of mental illness.

I remember a while back when someone into Gor was posting in the forums and kept shouting and expecting the women to act accordingly in the thread. He was having a technical problem in SL if I recall correctly. I did think he was missing a few brain cells.

As for TGs, I would think SL must be a sort of haven for them. A bit of peace, even if only pixel peace. I'm not an expert though. I don't know any very well (RL). I can not comment on if they should or should not tell. I only know that I would appreciate honesty in that regard.

LOL!

We have several kid AV's who drop in at the Forum Hangout in world. Yes, the building is on mature land, but one of our rules, a very big one, when the "kids" are around we keep the atmosphere PG. Some people don't like it, but that is tough. We strive to make all feel comfortable and to us that means what ever your AV is that is what you are.

Heh, true. : D

But when George Lucas finally checks out for good, I'll bet that compared to Rodenderry he'll leave behind the most toys. Which means he wins.

Well, I wasn't going THAT far. I'll take trek over Star Wars any day. I've never watched any of the Star Wars movies beyond the original 3 and while it is a classic in all ways, I found it a bit too cartoonish for my tastes, too much fantasy/swashbuckling as opposed to the hard Sci Fi that I prefer. But as a cultural and financial/marketing item, yes Mr Lucas is the winner there. Trek will still be a niche interest in comparison, although a large niche at that. I just prefer the post Roddenberry, darker tone it took when he finally transported out.

If people are upset over "PGing" on my behalf, let me know an I'll scram.

Mari

I would think that since the hangout is called The Forum Cartel, people would probably expect it to be just as PG as it is (or not?) on the forums. I can't imagine you not being welcome there...

The normal atmosphere is supposed to be PG/PG 13. We do have times when things have gotten more adult, but when that happens a notice is supposed to be given to warn those who don't want to see that type of behavior to not come.


Mari is always welcome. The complainers are the ones told they can find someplace else to go.

Here is a reason why the fantasy, and masturbation to the fantasy, of a child sexual abuse roleplay scenario is an issue:

From The National Organisation for the Treatment of Abusers:
'D1. How Do We Treat Sex Offenders ?
The acquisition of deviant sexual interests and urges has been linked to early sexual and social experiences followed by the pairing of abusive and violent fantasies with repeated masturbation (MacCulloch et al, 1983; Burgess et al, 1986). Deviant sexual arousal has been shown to contribute to maintenance and escalation of some kinds of sexual offending, including paedophilic and sadistic offending, a) through escalation in the dangerousness of sexual fantasies and urges, and b) through its effect on limiting alternative, legal behaviours (Marshall & Barbaree, 1990; MacCulloch et al, 1983). Deviant sexual interest and preoccupation has been shown to be a key risk factor for sexual recidivism in long-term follow-up studies (Hanson & Bussiere, 199.'

'Features of the more successful treatment programmes for sex offenders include:
1. Identification of deviant sexual arousal and preoccupation, which is then addressed by behavioural modification techniques and/or appropriate medication.
2. The use of cognitive-behavioural techniques to increase motivation and to develop offence-reduction skills in the three key modalities of thinking, feeling and behaviour. '

Home Office UK Consultation on the possession of non-photographic visual depictions of child sexual abuse 2007:
'..it is not an offence to possess non-photographic visual depictions of child sexual abuse. The police and children’s welfare groups report a growing increase in interest in these images, including an increase in websites advertising this sort of explicit material.
Police and children’s welfare groups are concerned that these images could fuel the abuse of real children by reinforcing abusers’ inappropriate feelings towards children. These images, particularly as they are often in a cartoon or fantasy style format, could be used in 'grooming' or preparing children for sexual abuse..'

Not all of those within SL role playing these scenarios will have committed an offence, nor are they all likely to, however, does it seem like a good idea for someone who harbours those fantasies to actively and consistently engage in enacting them?
There may be some complex reasons why people who do not have fantasies about abusing a child participate in such role playing. For those who have had real experiences of abuse, the re-enactment of the trauma, at the hands of someone who it is doubtful has their best interests at heart, is more likely to compound the very difficult feelings of guilt, shame and self-blame that are often experienced by survivors of abuse. For some, this may partly be the purpose, in terms of a form of self-harming.
It's far from easy to access adequate supports for abuse, but there is questionable benefit, and increased risk of further emotional and psychological distress, in repeating abusive experiences in role play.

Some suggest that this is not really an issue within SL now anyway, as ageplaying has been banned. Why then might the following groups still exist, albeit more difficult to find as the search function no longer allows us to look for 'ageplay'..

Wonderland SL - 250 members
Diana Roleplay Centre - formerly Diana ageplay centre - 408 members
Hard Alley Family Fun - 'Keeping it in the family is what it's all about' - 148 members
Roleplayer's Group! - 'dedicated to a "certain" kind of fantasy rp.. mom/daughter, dad/daughter.. and all manner of cousins and uncles..' - 502 members
Incest - 176 members
Playfair Manor assembly - the old playfair manor had a child's bedroom with some 'forced sex' pose balls on the bed. Haven't had the pleasure of visiting the new improved area as yet. 84 members.
Daddy's Toy - whose creator is also a member of hard alley family fun, dirty lil girls, roleplayers group! and kiddy club - 345 members

Thanks to Stephen's link to a previous thread about AR'ing, it's clear that trading in real images of children being sexually abused is also still an issue, with some forum members stating that they had in fact been offered images,

"..I'm VERY open about my lolicon preferences. That, my avatar, and my choice of clothing leads some people to believe that I'm into hardcore SAP and trading CP inworld. I haven't ARed anyone on that yet, I don't keep what is being sent to me.."

Rather than castigate those in the media (and the NSPCC, CEOP, Kidscape, psycholgist's, the police) who express their concerns about the potential for harm, and attacking those posting their concerns here, maybe we should be asking some questions as to why certain residents known to be a longtime concern to many in the SL community (including people with child av's who do have genuinely therapeutic interactions with family units offering an alternative to negative childhood experiences, and those who just like to lark around and play) are still around and creating areas specifically for sexual abuse rp'ing.
The recent UK news reports have certainly lacked quality but I'm still glad the issue was highlighted again.

I sure made myself 'famous' with that statement. (T_T)

Frankly, things have gotten better. My circle of friends, while it still includes some griefers, is very level and relatively common in tastes as I am. Most of the freakiness that I saw my first two months in-world has gone away. Careful wording of my profile and my own reactions to IMs have made my existence here much more peaceful. And... I finally clearly understand how the AR system works. (^_^)y

I think this sort of problem continues to exist because LL takes a reactive rather than a proactive approach to content enforcement.

Unless they are made aware of a problem ..

And being made aware also means reports not being drowned in a sea of other ARs.

.. they wont even know to target it.


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But as long as an AR of "Joe Noobie is walking around with his plastic primnis on my land" is equal to an AR of "Hey there is a sexual ageplay group still open!" Were going to likely have a situation where it doesn't really get completely cleaned up.

Ledoof didn't provide evidence that all of those groups are age play groups. Some of them are incest related, but that does not mean they are adult/child sex groups. (yes still disgusting, but how do you make "adult incest" images illegal?)

Even saying they are all adult/child sex groups and saying that each number in his counts represent a unique AV, that is still less than 2000 AV's. 2000 people out of 10 million is a widespread problem?

Wait...someone from Kentucky eschewing incest. I'm impressed. I bet you have all your teeth, too.

I do, never had a cavity either.

What you said. With 12k accounts, 55-65k concurrency, and a bajillion regions, you know they've gotta be stretched. Likewise, while I think they are vigilant on sexual ageplay, they also have to be vigilant on casinos, ad farms, banking, and other big/current issues, while also dealing with immediate needs with griefing and other things. I *suspect* that plenty of work hits their desk in a day, too, to keep being proactive things like digging up names of groups off the desk :-/

Mari

Lemme guess....3rd grade, only 2 tries to get it right?

The groups may yet exist, and still have lots of "registered" members, but they can easily be defunct. I know I've joined a few groups in SL that seemed to cater to a hobby or interest of mine, only to find out that they were formed 4 years ago and the last time they saw any activity was around the same time. Meanwhile, the groups stay up and more people "join", but don't get anything out of it aside from a group tag.

Is it possible to AR groups? If it is, I suppose you can try that. I mean if a group is explicitly set up to violate the TOS, I would think LL wants to hear about it.

Yes, you can AR a group. It turns up on the Incident Reports once in a while.

It is possible -- and yes, they do want to hear about it. That came up at the governance meeting yesterday, too.

Many of the groups listed including the Wonderland group are not sexual ageplay specific. and anyway sexual ageplay and incest isnt against the ToS. only using a very short avatar while in that roleplay is considered a violation. so, like it or not, noone is breaking any rules.

Whoa thats not true.

What is banned is -

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(1) participation by Residents in lewd or sexual acts in which one or more of the avatars appears to represent minors (or the depiction of such acts in images, video, textures, or text) is a violation of the Community Standards;

(2) promoting or catering to such behavior or representations violates our Community Standards. For instance, the placement of avatars appearing to represent minors in proximity to “sex beds” or other sexualized graphics, objects, or scripts, would violate our Community Standards, as would the placement of sexualized “pose balls” or other content in areas depicting playgrounds or children’s spaces;

(3) the graphic depiction of children in a sexual or lewd manner violates our Community Standards.

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http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/11/13/clarification-of-policy-disallowing-ageplay/#more-1379

yeah i know but i specifically checked with Lindens and neither sexual ageplay nor incest is against Tos. it only is if you do so wearing a short avatar. if you search groups you can see for yourself all the different types of incest that is allowed. they dont even care if you have sexual ageplay as long as youre not in a very short avatar. checked. rechecked.

i do understand the confusion tho because this was a recent policy change. they flip flopped on it.

Incest doesn't mean depictions of minors are involved necessarily so thats not really even applicable to the situation.

I am really interested on the second part -

Which Linden told you only short avatars are affected? - that goes against the stated policy. It really seems the Lindens do a poor job of briefing their own staff on several topics.

How short did they tell you was "too short"?

I happen to over the years been acquainted with people who were dwarfs in real life.

Thinking on them, I really think that using "Short" as a policy as opposed to their actual listed one is pretty irresponsible.

Can Someone put this one youtub.com
please

Again Proven that the very sick people still live on sl. And the failure of dealing with issues is now at a all time high. Putting personal data will not guard agaisted this problem. Only way is to monitor the users more and more.

well the incest thing is applicable because i was responding to someone else's post who mentioned it and also because its a common dynamic in sexual age play lol

and before you get excited i can not give you links to verify the policy change because like most policies this one is unwritten *rolls eyes* (not at you but at Linden Labs for being so terribly vague)

but i do have knowledge that sexual ageplay is allowed as long as youre not wearing a child sized avatar . .they word it strangely like . . any very short avatar who has specific attributes such as using baby talk and dressed in a specific manner as to represent itself as a child. and thats not a direct quote just the jist of what i read.

but say you have an avatar thats 5 feet tall in sl and wears pigtails and sucks a pacifier and calls your play partner Daddy. to the best of my knowledge, thats not against ToS from everything ive been told about it.

its actively being roleplayed in Incest groups so it must be within ToS or it wouldnt even be allowed. You better believe Lindens watch those groups closely.

the impression i got was that Linden lab really doesnt care as long as you dont get caught on a screenshot with a very short avatar on a poseball/nude being naughty.

of course i dont speak for Linden Lab. this is just my first hand knowledge of how the policy is handled.