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reselling goods for higher..
Bloodsong Termagant
Manic Artist
Join date: 22 Jan 2007
Posts: 615
05-08-2008 10:12
when i first contemplated the idea (last year, just in theory), my first reaction was like, 'omg, they'd steal my customer base, they'd get more money that *I* could have gotten; oh woe is me!'

then i thought a little longer... and you know, since we're NOT talking about full copy/trans permissions here... for every one they sell at their price, they gotta pay ME my price first. be a wholesale supplier? why not? i get my money.

and resellers arent really competing with me. well, on what? my price is lower and my customer service is better. maybe they have better traffic and pay more for classifieds than i do. well. then they need the profit :P


now if it were copy/trans, that'd be a different story.


btw, if i wanted to 'get rid' of a trans item i had bought and used, i'd sell it as 'used' and at a lower price. is the original creator going to go berzerk because i undercut their price? hardly, since i only have the one. again, not big competition, here.
2k Suisei
Registered User
Join date: 9 Nov 2006
Posts: 2,150
05-08-2008 10:16
From: Phil Deakins
What Argos said ;)


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2k Suisei
Registered User
Join date: 9 Nov 2006
Posts: 2,150
05-08-2008 10:18
From: Argos Hawks
A seller can't determine the market value of anything. Only the market can. It is impossible to sell anything higher than the market value. If it sells, then by definition, the price is at or below the market value.


Not all things are created equal.

Just because sofas in SL sell for L$1000 doesn't mean I can't sell a far more comfier sofa for L$2000.

I set the market value on my sofas.
2k Suisei
Registered User
Join date: 9 Nov 2006
Posts: 2,150
05-08-2008 10:19
The gloves are off. The next person to defy me is going to get a thump.
Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
05-08-2008 10:22
From: 2k Suisei
I'm not your friend anymore. It's over between us!
Yeah - welcome to my fickle side :D (that doesn't merit a thump, btw)
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Namssor Daguerre
Imitates life
Join date: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 1,423
05-08-2008 10:23
From: 2k Suisei
Just because sofas in SL sell for L$1000 doesn't mean I can't sell a far more comfier sofa for L$2000.
Just curious - What determines the comfort value of a prim couch? We don't yet have force feedback devices, so is it visual?

Do I get a thump? ;)
Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
05-08-2008 10:26
From: Namssor Daguerre
Just curious - What determines the comfort value of a prim couch?
Buying it for 0L :)
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2k Suisei
Registered User
Join date: 9 Nov 2006
Posts: 2,150
05-08-2008 10:26
From: Namssor Daguerre
Just curious - What determines the comfort value of a prim couch? We don't yet have force feedback devices, so is it visual?


Do you think that's air you're breathing now?
Maureen Boccaccio
TWJKFA
Join date: 28 Feb 2008
Posts: 14,484
05-08-2008 10:28
From: Brann Georgia
How about doing this in your own store? :)

Yesterday I went back to a shop to buy another copy of a favourite shirt in a different colour. It being a unisex design, the same shirt was displayed on male models a few shelf rows down.

Well, wouldn't you know, the one for women was L50 more than the one for men! Although a little miffed, I bought the one for men and, sure enough, every fold and seam is identical.

The nerve!


are you kidding me??? bad enough that this happens in RL....wow!
Windy Lefavre
Girls will do Girls
Join date: 20 Mar 2008
Posts: 117
05-08-2008 10:31
From: 2k Suisei
The gloves are off. The next person to defy me is going to get a thump.


Please see the following:



The price P of a product is determined by a balance between production at each price (supply S) and the desires of those with purchasing power at each price (demand D). The graph depicts an increase in demand from D1 to D2, along with a consequent increase in price and quantity Q sold of the product
Argos Hawks
Eclectically Esoteric
Join date: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 1,037
05-08-2008 10:31
From: 2k Suisei
Not all things are created equal.

Just because sofas in SL sell for L$1000 doesn't mean I can't sell a far more comfier sofa for L$2000.

I set the market value on my sofas.

You can PRICE your sofas at $2000, but the buyers will decide if that's the market value or not. Thump away.
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Namssor Daguerre
Imitates life
Join date: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 1,423
05-08-2008 10:35
From: Phil Deakins
Buying it for 0L :)
Sitting on a RL couch funded by prim couches = Priceless
Damien1 Thorne
Registered User
Join date: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 4,877
05-08-2008 10:35
From: Phil Deakins
Buying it for 0L :)

Does that mean you're gonna give me my L$ back?
2k Suisei
Registered User
Join date: 9 Nov 2006
Posts: 2,150
05-08-2008 10:37
Windy Lefavre
Girls will do Girls
Join date: 20 Mar 2008
Posts: 117
05-08-2008 10:44
From: 2k Suisei







:D
FD Spark
Prim & Texture Doodler
Join date: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 4,697
05-08-2008 10:45
I think in my case if I gave someone something,etc and I found out they were selling it and even doing better at selling....I would be broken hearted because I never sold more then handful of things since I joined.
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2k Suisei
Registered User
Join date: 9 Nov 2006
Posts: 2,150
05-08-2008 10:48
From: Windy Lefavre



:D


<3
Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
05-08-2008 10:53
From: Damien1 Thorne
Does that mean you're gonna give me my L$ back?
No. My sofas aren't comfortable :D
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Johan Durant
Registered User
Join date: 7 Aug 2006
Posts: 1,657
05-08-2008 11:08
2k, you are confusing "suggested retail price" with "market value." The former is the price that a manufacturer sets on an item, the latter is the price consumers will pay for an item. In general manufacturers try to set the suggested retail price just a tad below market value, but there is no iron-clad relationship between the two.

However, that said...

From: Argos Hawks
It is impossible to sell anything higher than the market value. If it sells, then by definition, the price is at or below the market value.


Except for unique items like paintings, no single sale determines market value. Market value is an average within a competitive auction situation. It is perfectly possible for a con-artist or someone in a non-competitive market to sell higher than market value.
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Conan Godwin
In ur base kilin ur d00ds
Join date: 2 Aug 2006
Posts: 3,676
05-08-2008 16:28
From: 3Ring Binder
i don't see that's it's illegal, but the store owner will find out and be pissed off at you. it's unethical at best.



Unethical at worst you mean. You've never bought a car and then sold it on again?
If so, didn't you want the best price possible for it when you did?
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Gabriele Graves
Always and Forever, FULL
Join date: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 6,205
05-08-2008 18:04
From: Aimee Weber
I think the issue is that Second Life doesn't have an "end-user agreement" system in place for SL content, so people use the permissions system to *imply* a EULA. The problem is, the permissions system *isn't* a EULA, so when a content creator activates TRANSFER on their goods they are not necessarily giving permission for resale. This is why every content creator should make their EULA available in the product (or box) as well as someplace accessible before a purchase is made.

So the question is, do content creators have a RIGHT to expect their end user agreement be followed? Well real-world precedent says yes. Software routinely comes with a "NOT FOR RESALE" EULA and you are expected to comply ... even if it *IS* physically possible for you to resell the software. While it is physically possible for you to resell Second Life content that has been marked as "TRANSFER," if the content creator specifies "no resale" in the content's EULA, I can't think of a reason why that agreement shouldn't be followed and enforceable, just as it would with RL products.

All that said, I understand how difficult it is to enforce one's own EULA. I just don't have the time or desire to chase after people for this sort of thing. So if I mark something as TRANSFER, I assume somebody is going to resell it and I am really not going to bother them about it. I do feel bad for people who shell out cash for my (copy/trans) freebies which I mostly hope get circulated freely and without cost, but I try to remedy this by including "FREE!!!!" in big letters in the name of the freebie (no mod) so resellers will at least have SOME fast talking to do in order to pull their scam.
I think the bigger issue is whether content that parallels RL items should be licensed at all. In RL a shoe shop sells shoes, not a license to use the pair of shoes but a real sale - you own them, many content creators feel that a pair of virtual shoes sold in a VW is actually a license to use and yet the product is presented very much like the customer expects from the RL.

Customer expectation coming from RL will be that when they "buy" something then they get to own it. After all nobody advertises in SL that their new line of shoes is ready and waiting to be licensed by the shopping hordes.

I think this is the real crux of the issue. Should virtual content be licensed like software or bought like in a real store?

If the former should there not be an upfront EULA to read before you buy? Perhaps its disingenious to present the products as if for sale? LL maybe should remove the "Buy" option and replace with License?

If the latter is the case then content creators should not worry a great deal about what happens to a pair of shoes after they sold them. The consumer should have rights to resell those shoes at whatever cost they want, even L$0 and give them away, perhaps as a gift.

Just my thoughts.
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3Ring Binder
always smile
Join date: 8 Mar 2007
Posts: 15,028
05-08-2008 18:05
From: Conan Godwin
Unethical at worst you mean. You've never bought a car and then sold it on again?
If so, didn't you want the best price possible for it when you did?

i said at 'best' and that's wut i meant. at 'worst' would be even worse than unethical.... you're one of those word twister types, aren't you.

if i bought a car, i would then expect to get LESS than i paid for it because it would have depreciated the moment i drove it off the lot.
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Tegg Bode
FrootLoop Roo Overlord
Join date: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 5,707
05-08-2008 23:44
From: Aimee Weber
Well this is true for "used" goods, that is, goods that deteriorate with use or time and are later resold at a lower price to reflect the used-ness of it. Of course SL goods don't deteriorate.

Well actually some goods do deterioate in value, as Sl continually upgrades graphics and physics, many items will either loose function or be superseeded by better looking, hugher performance, more efficient items.
A RollsRoyce Phantom car could look spectacular, but be renderered non-functional if Havok 5 arrives and the creator does not update them. Someone was showing me all the functons of a Starax Wand, and many functions had stopped working, and this was before Havok 4 deployment. What a non functional Starax Wand is worth or one of his pre scullptie scultures, who knows what the buyer will pay?
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Faithless Babii
Iam F.A.B
Join date: 5 Feb 2007
Posts: 1,079
05-08-2008 23:49
From: Phil Deakins
No. My sofas aren't comfortable :D

lol, thats funny :P your sense of humour slays me Mister Deakins

( they ARE in fact very comfy)
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Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
05-09-2008 02:42
From: 3Ring Binder


if i bought a car, i would then expect to get LESS than i paid for it because it would have depreciated the moment i drove it off the lot.


A car dealer on the other hand would expect to get more than he paid for it.
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