reselling goods for higher..

I think the issue is that Second Life doesn't have an "end-user agreement" system in place for SL content, so people use the permissions system to *imply* a EULA. The problem is, the permissions system *isn't* a EULA, so when a content creator activates TRANSFER on their goods they are not necessarily giving permission for resale. This is why every content creator should make their EULA available in the product (or box) as well as someplace accessible before a purchase is made.

So the question is, do content creators have a RIGHT to expect their end user agreement be followed? Well real-world precedent says yes. Software routinely comes with a "NOT FOR RESALE" EULA and you are expected to comply ... even if it *IS* physically possible for you to resell the software. While it is physically possible for you to resell Second Life content that has been marked as "TRANSFER," if the content creator specifies "no resale" in the content's EULA, I can't think of a reason why that agreement shouldn't be followed and enforceable, just as it would with RL products.

All that said, I understand how difficult it is to enforce one's own EULA. I just don't have the time or desire to chase after people for this sort of thing. So if I mark something as TRANSFER, I assume somebody is going to resell it and I am really not going to bother them about it. I do feel bad for people who shell out cash for my (copy/trans) freebies which I mostly hope get circulated freely and without cost, but I try to remedy this by including "FREE!!!!" in big letters in the name of the freebie (no mod) so resellers will at least have SOME fast talking to do in order to pull their scam.

Reselling at a higher price would be ripping the *customer* off; not the creator.
The creator got the original price s/he asked, and even gets added exposure. When the customer (or somebody else) rightclicks the resold item to see the creator, the store to get more should be right there as the first pick.
You could argue that the reseller is simply charging for the added marketing effort; renting land to resell from and such, and pushing the cost on to the customer, which is really how RL commerce works. -The ethics of this would largely depend on the profit margin.

That said, I tend to always teleport to somebody's mainstore to get things from the source.

If you want a system of resellers, the nice way seems to be some "affiliated vendor" program, where the reseller gets a cut (of the original price) for footing the marketing and land bill. I am personally selling a couple of my wares that way, and on a larger scale, that's how a site like SLX works.

Along the SLX line, how many here find the wares on SLX, using their search, and then teleport to the mainstore to look at the wares and buy them inworld? -And is that really fair to SLX?

I do, unashamedly. Only when I'm looking for something absolutely specific which the lottery of SL search fails to reveal, though.

Is it fair to SLX? Probably not.

I don't agree that it's ripping anyone off, but I do understand the thinking.

I don't know all the merchants who resell my stuff at higher prices, because they never ask me if they can do it - my "Notice to Traders" answers that for them. But I do know 2 who do it, and both do it because the stuff of mine that they resell fits nicely with their outlet's niche or theme. One is an art gallery, and he buys my few pieces of art for resale. The other sells 'olde worlde' furnishings and my Chesterfield sofas and chairs fit perfectly there. Both make their own things, and my things add to them. So, when a user is looking for art or olde worlde furnishings, those places have brought some together in one place, which is good for users - much better than having to visit everywhere and look at a small number of pieces in each place. Imo, that *is* added value, and decidedly preferable for users.

Adding value is a perfectly legitimate thing to charge for; and that value may be, like you describe, having the eye and the time to find things which goes nicely together. In this case, the customer is not really paying more for your items, but for the service of somebody with an eye for design.
If they are simply reselling the item in the hope that the customer never finds the cheaper original, that would be ripping off, but again, as I said, it would largely depend on the profit margin. Making something easier to find by making it available in more places on the grid is in itself a service.

The difference between RL and SL resellers is that the SL resellers deliberately sell stuff higher than the market value. So later the buyer usually ends up feeling nothing but resentment towards the reseller.

But hey, that's your business.

I wonder if "the users" would agree.

I am having a hard time understanding why this is an issue to begin with. SL is essentially a free market society. The only rule in this type of market is the law of supply and demand. In such that all decisions are made by the sellers and buyers with their mutual consent. Once a seller has completed their transaction with the buyer the seller is no longer a part of the equation.

Understanding that the SL environment is different than the RL in regards to physical product and the ease of replication. There are processes in place that prevent such activities. No copy, No Mod and No Transfer are there to protect the seller (content creator) from this issue. If the seller chooses not to employ these processes then anything that happens after the transaction takes place is irrelevant. The permission is implied from the seller that the buyer is free from any or all restrictions.

I agree with the those that think it is ok.If the creator sells with transfer then whats the prob as long as the stuff was not ripped.If somebody buys 20 items for resale at a higher price they are gambling that they can get sales,if they don't they get stuck with 20 plastic ducks.

As I assume Ginny had left the game, I don't think she'd care really other than to be satisfied her products were so popular to be consideredhigh value.
Sorta like if Starax wands were transferable would Starax be cheezed off if one auctioned off at $1m Lindens?

Ginny died, Tegg.

And the clothing was of extremely high quality, especially the later stuff.

I look at it this way: you asked for a certain price, and you got it. If someone else finds that they could have bought it for less from you, they will rethink shopping in the way that they obtained the article to begin with. There is nothing wrong so long as it was resold and not a ripped copy. People pay what they are willing to pay. No one is forcing the sale. That it could result in a high return for the reseller is just something to make you think about the value you assign to your products.

Some people don't want to understand. It would mean they're evil and they would have to shoot themselves. So it's in their best interest to find ways to justify doing their evil deeds.

I'm sure this doesn't apply to you though!. You're a lovely person!.

It's not necessarily an SL issue. It's just an issue with resellers in general. SL is now like the old days previous to the internet where you could walk into the store and buy something much higher than the retail price. People back then were understandably annoyed when they realized that the same item was on sale for far less in a store in the next town.

It's ironic that an internet based world is suffering from the old retail problems that used to exist previous to the internet enlightening us to retail prices.

Well this is true for "used" goods, that is, goods that deteriorate with use or time and are later resold at a lower price to reflect the used-ness of it. Of course SL goods don't deteriorate.

But in RL everything is about the mark-up. Manufacturers sell goods to retailers who mark up the goods all the time. It's not considered a rip-off because the retailers are providing the service of distribution and local marketing. In SL I may have ONE little store in Midnight City, but if resellers want to buy my goods in bulk and open up little shops all around the grid, the service they are providing to the consumer is easy availability while the service they provide to me is higher volume sales. Sure, a smart shopper can look for the wholesale outlet, but that's true in RL too.

So to me the issue is still a matter of EULA and finding an easy way for content creators to communicate restrictions on how their products may be used/resold/redistributed and a way of enforcing that EULA. Right now the privileges system is being used to imply the EULA but that is a really bad fit.

Starax would be flattered to see his items getting sold at a higher price. But only because his store is closed. He'd be quite pissed otherwise. He'd be annoyed to see people getting conned into paying more than they should for his items.

The people that buy his items now do it more out of investment and so he'll have no problems seeing them pay all that money. and it's why he'll never comeback because he wouldn't want to devalue their investment.

SL goods do deteriorate. Prim drift, broken or depreciated code, lost textures. On mod items, things can be "adjusted" enough times to barely resemble the original product. And there's perceived quality - how many dresses became perceived as less valuable as flexi became the norm? Or skins with WindLight?

The permissions system isn't very expressive. I'd love to see Trade and Sell as separate permissions. Possibly a "lowest price" option as well.

All my items are no mod/no copy/yes transfer exactely for that purpose.

In my opinion, same a real life, if you buy something from a creator, you will not start to modify it, but you might sell it or give it as a gift if you are bored or just don't need the item anymore.

The price at what you sell is your problem. You can give it cheaper to clean up inventory, or you can sell if for a higher price, doesn't matter. You are the one who needs to find the buyer, not the one who originally sold the item.

The creator did his job, got his money for the item and he/she's satisfied that you bought something from the shop.

Seriously, if I have some nice shoes, or some good clothes, I'll look up the name and will search for the main shop if I want to buy more. I'll be glad that the items are cheaper than the first I bought, also glad that the reseller opened my mind about that cool designer. It's like paying for information or advertisement... just better because you get an item with the info.

That about the good part.

The bad part is that some people made really cheap items to help newbies. And others exploit that by reselling those, and usually exactely the newbies are the ones who will buy the overpriced ones. But I guess learning the ropes costs every one of us something... more or less...

The really ugly part of the deal are the freebie resellers. They are despicable and from my point of view they should all be shot ...inworld of course .

Manufacturers sell goods to retailers to be sold at a recommended retail price. It's a situation that everybody is happy with. The manufacturer, the retailer and the customer.




Good point!.

I like the idea of people being able to sell my items when they're done with them. So I doubt I'd try to stop them if we had a better permissions systems. But I only want to see people selling my items at my recommended prices.

Thank you dear.

Remember that even retail price is not what the actual manufacturing costs are. RL music CD's cost major labels about eighty cents to make. So someone is still getting ripped off.

The only one that can be hurt here is the buyer. No matter what life you are in (SL or RL) it always pays to be a knowledgeable as you can be and understand that even then you are going to lose every once in a while.

2K..buying things and then selling them for a higher price is actually common and accepted practice in RL...it does not only happen in SL. We dont buy Hanes items from Hanes, we buy them from the resellers that Hanes has sold them to. In fact, there are not too many items in RL that you can buy directly from the creator...almost all are purchased from a reseller. Just walk through a grocery or dept store to confirm this in RL.

And there you have a problem with your logic. There is no such thing as a "market value" in SL. There are ranges of prices that items are generally sold for, of course, but the ranges are wide. E.g. an average decent sofa that does nothing but allow you to sit on it, has a range of 'value' from, say, 50L to 350L. You can buy lower quality examples at 250L-350L and higher quality examples as low as 50L. What's the market value of such an item? There isn't one.

Some creators, like me, prefer to sell 11 @ 100L than 1 @ 1000L, so I sell my quality items for as little as 50L - the same quality of similar items sells for around 200L - 350L in other places. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that mine are better than those. If a reseller sells my items at, say, 100L, the buyer still gets a very good deal, so where's the problem? The only problem that I can see is if a person pays 100L for an item and then some time later finds that it's on sale for 50L. BUT what's 50L when it presents the item to the person, who wouldn't have seen it otherwise, and who would have been deprived of the choice?

The original seller will determine the market value of their items.

I think we all need to step back and ask ourselves if the buyer will be left feeling annoyed. If the answer is yes then we probably need to change our business strategy. If a reseller is only making an extra L$100 from reselling a L$2000 item then I doubt anybody is gonna be upset about it.

It just seems to me that many business owners have a mentality of "Screw you! I just want my money dammit! It's every man for himself! I eat babies! YAY!!"

That's simply not true, and I explained why it isn't true - complete with an example. All the original seller decides is what s/he sells it at. I can assure you that my stuff has a *much* higher value than what I charge for it, when compared to similar items in other shops. The 'market value' is a huge range, and many resold items are resold within the ranges.

It's simply true. A reseller wont sell my items for less than they originally paid for them.

I set their value.

I'm going to cut you.

Bow before my superior logic!!

A seller can't determine the market value of anything. Only the market can. It is impossible to sell anything higher than the market value. If it sells, then by definition, the price is at or below the market value.

What Argos said