When did we get so mean?

Well said, Travis. I must agree with you in instances where a question is asked. What about a situation such as this thread where the OP made a commentary, should it not be then open to debate? Technically, I guess, it could be said that this type of thread doesn't even really belong in RA, but we know they come up time and time again.

For the record, I have stated before that I felt that new people asking basic questions were frequently handled poorly. I do not believe they should be attacked for asking a question that has been asked time and time again....because it is new for them. I agree that does happen too often. I just don't think the two threads we were discussing here were cases that were handled inappropriately.

sometimes "WTF WERE YOU THINKING!?!?! WERE YOU THINKING???!?!?" is a very real and valid response

I saw both the threads titles mentioned (plus others) and the fact they had any response at all amazed me...

presumably everyone here on these forums is over 18 (or faking it), so should be expected to at least act with the intelligence expected for that (minimum) age.

language difficulties, not knowing how to access a certain feature, these are understandable...

straight up "do this for me because I'm too lazy to do it myself" or "I can't be bothered to read the solution you posted" tends to get what it deserves, ignored at best, ridicule at worse.

Strange this happens in forums. I have been apart of various forums for 10 years now and everyone I have been apart of always turns out this way. Basic questions get bitch slapped with "why don't you search before you ask" and such. The problem with that is you do a search and end up with a hundred threads all saying "use the search". If you say use the search at least point them to a valid thread to start with so the next person that searches has something more to go on instead of "use the search".

In RL when I am interested in something I always go ask someone that is already established in that something for advice and direction. Usually they can steer you in the right direction a lot faster then trying to do all the research yourself.

I have also learned to reply a lot less in threads that annoy me.

[/size]

And the simple truth is that if everyone did this there would be very few new threads posted these days.

Please explain.

Hey, you related to that idiot CC?


Come to think of it he hasn't been around...hmmm. Bad habits are hard to break even with another avie.

Doubtful.


*Add Edit**
I don't think many realize how lucky they are with the freedom they do have on this message board. I have seen others where the mods immediatly smack down off topic banter and ban habitual offenders. Personally I think RA should be renamed Resident Help and all topics be held to that.

To the OP. Yes there is alot of venom on this forum. Many forget what it was like to be new to SL and there is no need for "brutal" honesty here, ever. Honest answers will do just fine. Many posters here are so lucky Strife is as lenient as he is. If these were other company boards, they would be long gone already.

Absolutely agree with you FD. Part of the problem is that the first bit of marketing that LL offer on their sign up page is "run a business, own land.....etc....", but nothing on how. Asking how is a natural (even if seemingly lazy) next step. If the "shoot you down in flames" response, described as "tough love" by some is becoming the norm (perhaps in-world too), then it is no wonder why newbies don't hang around as much in SL anymore.

~Snowman~

Oh please. Only ONE person was really snarky. The rest gave equally good advice. That the advice isn't what was sought doesn't make it bad advice. I'm not going to blow sunshine up anyone's butt if I think I can give them a perspective that will help them for the long term. If telling someone to cool out and learn more is bad advice, it is no wonder that newbies don't hang around much in SL - because they will crash and burn because they have no perspective.

Why is it that we get these "we are horrible people" threads once every few weeks? Each and every day of the week I watch new questions (99% of which are reruns) get answered, and answered patiently. True, a lot of these questions get redirected to either different forums (e.g. Textures, Building, Scripting, etc) or older threads (e.g. Music URLs.) The vast majority of ALL threads in RA get at least one response, if not 5 or more, generally all offering sound advice. Most of the threads that I've tried to answer quickly are often answered more quickly that I can type, which I think is quite cool.

I see quite a few people on here actively answering questions in a straight, forthright manner.

By the same token, it would definitely benefit a lot of newer posters to read the stickies and lurk in the forums, watching what questions pop up often, before joining on monday and asking how to script/build/texture/etc on tuesday. Hell, I lurked for a month or more before my first post. I just sat and read and watched for a long time, until I felt like I had a question or answer.

All in all, though, I don't think that RA is punishing to the newbie. It's a good place to cut one's teeth and learn the ins and outs of "Second Life society" as far as it goes, meaning general attitudes, cultures, and practices. Of course I'm NOT SAYING that RA is the end-all, be-all defintion of SL culture, but we CAN give a good idea to the casual newbie of how life runs here.

[Edit: Here's a little analogy: Let's pretend that Second Life is a world-class racetrack, like Churchill Downs or the like. Obviously we don't all ride racehorses. Most of us, in fact, ride plow horses, and spend our time placidly trotting round the track, just enjoying the view. If someone comes up to us and says "hey that looks like fun, but I'm having a problem putting my saddle on the horse," we say "oh, sure, here you go, here's what you do."

However, when someone comes up to us and says "Hey, I'm brand new to this track and as a matter of fact I've never even been next to a horse. I'm not even sure how many legs a horse has, or whether or not it eats meat. But gee, I sure do want to win the Kentucky Derby next week! Tell me how!" some of us might tend to get a little riled. After all, we had to learn how to put the saddle on the horse. We had to learn how to get on and steer. Creating a racehorse is not a simple task. It takes time, effort, and a lot of of shit-shoveling. Just sayin.... ]

I have not been here all that long when compared to many here who have already responded. But I have posted questions in here that have recieved fairly decent answers. It might just depend on how those questions were posed. "I have looked and cannot find......" as opposed to "How do you?" without any effort identified from the OP might be the turning point as to whether replies are decent or rough.

I have to differ with the Mentor who stated that SL does not have a steep learning curve. That may apply to some, but I believe it is relative to the individual. I am not at all "tech gifted" and do not readily understand new terms and phrases. So I will ask appropriately how to do or find something rather than the "This place sucks because....".

I hate to pull this card, but I spent "several" years in the military, and have seen various types of "leadership" in regard to "newbies". There is something called "tact" and appropriateness when dealing with questions from new folks. More important is the aspect of "situational" leadership. I work in a domain where I have to tell people what they need to hear as opposed to what they want to hear.

One can be brutally honest with a person, but tactful at the same time. Or, one can be brutally honest yet have all the tact of a punch in the mouth. When faced with having to offer a "brutally honest" reply, look at the situation and see if it requires a punch in the mouth or not. 9 times out of 10 it does not.

One solution offered in a previous post (or two) is, if you don't really need to reply - then don't! Pretty easy!

The only "topics" that shake my grates are the ones that rant and rave on how "SL Sucks because I cannot get my way about everything". To that, I say that SL is not that much unlike RL, the difference being in SL, THE LITTLE RED "X" is easier and cleaner than checking out of RL because things don't go "your way".

In the old days (/me rattles her walking frame) it was advisable to lurk in any group for a while, because if you didn't you were liable to make a fool of yourself. It's no different here. If a newbie lurks for say, a week, on this forum, they would learn about previous threads, stickies, many things.

This isn't a forum called "Lazy Newbie Answers".

However, lots of times I look at a new question and think "I don't need to answer that, there are six forum people who will"

One who will give a straight answer as best they can, even though the question is huge, One who will refer to a previous thread, One who will make a snarky comment, One who will argue with the snarky one, and two who will ignore the question and talk about something unrelated.

Nobody dies, nobody gets hurt really, its part of the whole world of forums in general and this forum in particular. If Newbies don't have the sense to lurk and take advice, then perhaps they are very very young in Internet terms and they will grow up fast.

I've always been mean.

QFT

Then again, I always invite people who are crappy with me (or sometimes just in general) to come and talk to me face to face in world. To date, no one has - it is very easy to be a Forum warrior, less so when the person is right there and can respond immediately.

I have been guilty of derailing threads, but i try to wait until it has been answered. I hope I have never put anyone off answering a question and I would hate to think I was ever nasty. I do try to be as helpful as possible. However, I have entered debates which I could have stayed out of. Generally though, I turn up just as they finish so i back read, want to answer, wait till i have finished, by which time it has been locked and/or moved on and forgotten.
I like answering questions, but i just don't know enough about most of the things answered. I try to answer newbie questions though, and never berate anyone for not using search - i just remember I was there once.

I agree with the muting part, and ignoring, but I don't like to mute, as I figure that person could have something valuable to offer later on. I try to ignore flaming posts or trolls, unless I am in a teasing mood. lol
I just try to get on with people. There are people here who do flame or troll or are snarky, but eventually they do offer valuable advice, and this is bound to happen when you have a number of people together in one place. Every question I have ever read has had a decent answer to it. Even the decidedly trolly or flamey ones.
Maybe someone should do a thorough search tutorial? Unless that has already happened and I have just not seen it (i haven't searched for one so I don't have a clue)

I've deliberately been leaving the Forums alone for a bit other than a quick glance now and then, esp if there's problems in world (or more likely not getting in world) which means I can see it *is* SL broken and not just me.

I have to say, I have been a lot happier in world as a result.

I'm glad you are feeling happier
Thats a pretty good idea if they tend to wind you up. i tend to be pretty easy going so i find it easier to ignore what i don't like. i use the foums to help, but also to stay in touch with people outside my usual (very small) circle. I hope though that if i ever found myself getting cynical or argumentative I would be able to distance myself a bit to gain some perspective.
And the post that everyone complains at; the 'why is SL not working today' or 'SL has borked' posts, I find incredibly useful as i know then that it is not just me. Especially for restarts etc or maintenance as i do not read the blog. it just never occurs to me.

The trick is when you are in forums on a bunch of different topics and you start seeing the same mechanism cropping up in all of them. I must divide my online time between about 6 forums, ranging from the mundane (Subarus) to the bizarre (rubber clothes). The best example of "Christmas cheer" is a guy on the Rubber forum who has started laying into other participants about giving out inaccurate information on the right glue to use - just in the last few weeks!

I mean really: Glue!!! Life's just too short...

The key observation, it seems to me, is not to get het up about the subject of their bad temper; it is to notice that they are stressed, and unlikely to magically behave better just by being told they are bad. Sometimes (and around xmas is one of those times) you have to roll with the punches: I find a quiet reminded after the festive season is often far far better payback than a massive punch-up beforehand.

it's also important to keep your eye on your friends: one good friend of mine has just narrowly escaped going to hospital for high blood pressure, due to family greif around the "festive season", and another acquaintance is giving off signals which are cause for some concern. Sometimes when people get snippy or angry or whatever, it's a bit of a cry for help...

You just wanted a reason to mention rubber clothes, admit it

Thanks Claire. I wasn't UNhappy in the first place though, just that the bickering here does get to me. I am actually a big softie really, concentrating on my SL and what's happening there instead of trying to herd cats (i.e. misguided helpful nature) has it's rewards

why not? There's an excellent summary of how to ask techie questions at http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html - but thus far, no accompanying rational assessment of what induces beginners to barge in to someone else's comfy old banter-pit. There should be: it's not as if it's inherently an insuperable problem - and yet oldbies all over the net can't rouse themselves to do anything about it other than complain.

I can understand why that might, to the newbie, look like a casual social trap; not a nice thing to encounter. All the effort expended in whining about newbie questions would better be directed to drawing up a less-entrapping list of top-level topics. After all, here, the while idea that someone would even understand what a "stickie" is, is a huge case-study in how bad that paradigm is to get information over to new users.

It always strikes me as bloody silly that advertisers have wasted no time in developing rolling, jumping, flashing pop-up windows over news sites because they know that's what draws the monkey-see monkey-do attention of the casual user, but yet forum software wonks still hang their hopes on obscure jargon thickets with concepts like "stickies" and "threads" in them, as if we are all implanted to read this crap from birth.

You will never get me to talk! NEVER!!!

...err, well, i don't normally need a reason. I thought it might help here though, to realise that no matter how recondite or niche-oriented the discussion, the same roles appear. I expect that when someone finally reveals the intranet forums of the Bush administration's secret master-plan it will turn out that there's 500 pages of sniping about the colours of the Iraqi flag or some such crap...

LOL

Thanks for making me chuckle since I am stuck at work for hours and hours and hours and HOURS still ...

And Degenerate Gamblers, the world over are in your debt.

Osgeld Barmy will explain all, perhaps.................

the funniest thing is doing a search on something and each search result is a thread where the answer is 'search is your friend'.