Second Life Railroad

Very true. Seems no matter how hard I try to say everything i would like, I always leave something out.
I can't say enough how that made me feel. I didn't expect it, since I felt I had been more of a problem to them then a help after I realized the headache I must have caused them.
To me that was an awesome display that they would do something like that to recognize me.

Thanks Guy and everyone else involved that did make it a nice transition in the end.

It amazes me that the Lindens and many others don't "get" what SLRR really brings to the party here. A few thoughts...

SLRR is a really great thing as it stands. It is infrastructure to play on if you want to, and if not, to just look at and say "wow, hmmmm..." It consumes minimal prims and resources and it is there, a "sunk cost" by the Lindens, waiting to be used by the citizens of Second Life. Riding personal trains on SLRR is hella-fun if you like that kind of thing, and many of us do! We use this piece of SL infrastructure to have FUN, not for transportation.

SLRR was originally built to do something it can never and will never do, provide useful passenger service around the Atoll. We can TP and fly. Why would anyone think we need a transportation system? There are many streetcar systems around SL, people ride them once as a novelty, then never ride them again. TOO MANY RESOURCES have been spent trying to make some kind of super-automated train system for the Atoll, why don't we have super-automated buses running on the SL highways? It doesn't work, that's why.

But they still try! Why? Because the idea is so compelling! Picture a utopian train system with happy, smiling, compliant little avatars zooming around. How do you not want to present THAT to the LL staff as an "initiative." Individuals having fun are not on the radar screen, only something worthy of a "dog and pony show" counts. Exacerbating the problem are the moles, who want to leave their mark on SL by building monuments to themselves. (I digress, but doesn't anyone see the conflict of interest in PAYING moles??? Why would they ever finish ANY project?)

Vehicles need drivers, trains need engineers! As a train-person (lol) I can tell you that there are a zillion situations that can come up while out riding on the SLRR. Go far enough and stuff is bound to happen. As an engineer I can safely and swiftly skirt my passengers around any trouble and continue on without incident (even while pushing a rail car with a half-dozen avatars dancing on it!) The amount of programming it would take to cover every possible situation in a super-automated train would be, well, infinite. (See my previous "conflict of interest" comment.)

Kitto and Veronica built a 14 region automated mini-train system in a week or two. Isn't that an example of a working super-automated train system? Well, it IS very nice indeed! The new mini-train line, however, is exclusively for the mini-train, not "mixed" traffic. Is that what the super-automated train supporters see as their goal for SLRR, eliminating personal trains altogether?

Despite the controversial stewardship of SLRR, there is good news. Michael Linden made a very useful improvement recently. By eliminating the "Spini Gap" you can now just about circumnavigate the entire Atoll, through about 70 regions. Nice! HOOOOOOOOO, and thank you!

Having said that, why can't we dress out the miles of remaining SLRR tracks with a solid center rail too? The trackbed is already there, but without a center rail it's useless to people with fun "collision-guided" personal trains. This is a few hours worth of work that would greatly expand SLRR. BUT, again, the issue has been so clouded by the super-automated train supporters that ML has to take a "wait and see" approach. Wait? Yep, the super-automated train people might come up with a design that precludes using the solid center rail at all. Unbelievable...

When I first built my Hellbound Train over a year and a half ago, there were virtually no other personal trains out there except for the hobo train! I now have 10 models and an entire "cottage industry" has sprung up as well! There are at least six other train builders now, all of them building physical, collision-guided SLRR-gauge trains. THIS IS GOOD FOR SL! There are no huge technical barriers to overcome and we citizens have solved all of SLRR's "problems" such as track switchers and road crossings. But there is no "train lobby" for us and the super-automated train supporters will continue to try to shape the future of SLRR without considering what we offer.

While the SLRR track system means a lot of things to a lot of people, it is my belief that the most "bang for the buck" is to keep it as a playground for the growing number of SL citizens who choose to play on it. Amortize the existing investment, quit throwing time/money at the concept of super-automated trains and keep SLRR as an "open" system for us to make fun trains and have fun times!

See you out there!

JS

The last Michael Linden Office Hours had people (including Michael) bemoaning the state of the Bay City trolley system. That runs on flat ground on fixed straight lines. Despite being 'easy' it "has issues".
Ditto for issues with the water ferries and Luna system.

I've been right around the SLRR system a few times. I've had friends as passengers. That central rail system works very well.
In general, sim-crossings have been OK, but it's not ultra unusual to have to resit the train on the central rail if a sim is a tad laggy.
I think that "super-automated" would wreck it for
1) the potential passive passengers on the thing
2) the human drivers and passengers of the existing system
i.e. for anybody who actually wanted to use it rather than try to automate it on a grid that isn't stable enough.

I use SLRR (and Caledon National Railway) both primarily for transportation. Then again, I'm of the opinion that getting there is half the fun. Automated busses don't work because busses have to interact with traffic and guide themselves, whereas you can automate a railway and still interact with resident-driven trains with standardized signalling.



Jer, please do both of us a favor and go drop a resume already! They're hiring lead Mole for pay right now. http://lindenlab.hrmdirect.com/employment/view.php?req=34607&



You can reduce the complications the same way you can in the real world. I think the LDPW working on getting automated trains running on the SLRR again should take a deep, introspective look at how Coast Mountain Bus in Vancouver, Canada solved this exact same problem in real life. The BC Skytrain system that they operate runs primarily automated trains, with lengths ranging from 2 to 8 cars. If there is a problem with a train, a live engineer takes over control, and the automated system ensures other trains obey trackside signals and speed limits. SLRR would need more doubletrack sections to pull this off, as well as getting some switches introduced to pull off the transition to and from single track sections.



I do not see the desire for residents to go to a station knowing a train will show up on a regular basis to be conflicting with the existing demand for private trains. There's no reason that the two can't co-exist on the same system (otherwise, how would any train simulator game worth actually playing work?). Personally, I don't mind getting stuck on a siding for a minute while another train goes the other direction, automated or otherwise.



Well, not quite yet. There's still the mile-long shortline to the beach that isn't complete yet (and is still missing all three of it's stations) over by your store.



Last I spoke with Michael about the topic, there were no plans to eliminate the center rail. If you've heard something more recently about the subject since I originally passed that on to you, please let me know so I can notify the Second Life Transit Authority group.



I like the hobo train except the door controller, lack of cab signals, and doorways too short for a Kodiak bear to fit through even when ducking...



SLTA and the SLRR Revival groups are both on your side on this one.

Thanks Baloo, good to hear from you. I've always felt like the Lone Ranger on this issue, standing alone as protector of the center rail, defender of the masses, a thorn in their side. hahahaha, I'm so just kidding! But, can you feel my angst? You're hearing rumors, I'm hearing rumors, why can't we just hear from Michael Linden? Someone will say "Did you hear they are changing the (fill in the blank)?" When I ask where people hear this stuff they always say the same thing, "Oh, some guy told me that." So therein lies the angst...

I know you addressed many of the points that I made. Throughout this forum, however, everyone seems to assume a benign, non-hostile environment for the automated super-train operations. I assure everyone that you will see unusual things out there, missing sims, sims without physics, dysfunctional boundaries, AFK avatars, car traffic, noobie cubes, entire houses rezzed on the tracks, griefers waiting to "bum rush" your train, and even an occasional kamakaze train! This is a game, its all part of the fun and chance favors the prepared engineer.

Also, do I seem too hard on those automated super-train folks? Well, think about it. They consume the attention and resources of ML and have not produced a viable system in the year they have been trying. I feel that their efforts are misguided at best, selfish at worst, and a conflict of interest all the way. Can you picture a mole telling Michael Linden "Well, we worked on it for a year and have decided that automated super-trains are not practical in SL for a variety of reasons, so stop paying me money and let the masses have their fun." Yeah, right...

As always, we are having a blast out on the SLRR and private tracks too. Our newest track is in Rivata (Bushside is gone now.) Come see it before we make the center rail invisible if you want to see a thing of beauty! A Loco Motives rez area will be built there very soon as well!

See you out on the rails!

The luna to dore is a hot mess. Been broken since pre-Havok 4, and now doesn't even get out of the gate without a crash. Bay City does fare better, but has it's own issues ("Here comes the water trolley - duck!"