Second Life Railroad

I just installed some Christmas Sleigh tours in Caledon Eyre, and what I found best (after some advice from Desmond Shang) was to have the vehicles die every so often, with a rezzer set to recreate them at the same time. I still get the occasional one sent back to Lost and Found, but I don't have the chore of reinstalling it.

I also found that using global coordinates makes things much easier on sim crossings.

To be honest, and a little off topic, I almost did not reply to yours, because I assumed you would be offended by my reply. I hope you know that my reply was not intended as an "attack," simply a reply. Like this one.

One of the benefits of Second Life is that it does provide resources for those who do seek to do things like run trains and other vehicles, rather than not simply teleporting everywhere. I love having the option to do both/either, and am glad there is a department of low-paid residents, under LLs purview, who are willing to work on this. I don't think I'd want moles near the central database, however.

Like I said -- I want both. stability and features.

Again, not an attack, simply a difference in view to yours.



Exactly. It usually gives me a fresher perspective on the world, and allows me to explore places I would not otherwise see. There were spots I saw on this train ride that I definitely want to explore further, even given many of the areas I've been before (Caletta, Celerio, etc.)

Mari

The moles allow us to have both. There is no choice between stability and features when it comes to LDPW projects. Again, they are not Lindens but paid resident contractors. It is not as if we have coders stopping what they are doing in order to build shiny things. Since they don't have the power to code, their priorities can and will be extremely different, and their priorities do not compete (and should not, in our collective brains) compete with what the coders and in-house Linden resources should be doing.

Pitting the question of improving the rail versus improving stability is a false choice because the groups responsible for those projects are completely separate and independent of each other.

That is certainly a good suggestion. But I think in order to do that, I would have to re-script the entire system from scratch.

I am not very skilled as yet in making SL Vehicles on my own. I've made a few simple boats, and that is about it. The scripting for a high-prim (130 prims or so) vehicle that can seat lots of passengers, follow a preprogrammed route, and that could cross sim boundaries was something well beyond my skill set, and which I didn't have time to learn for this particular project.

I found precisely ONE "bus system" for sale at xStreet SL, which claimed it could handle multi-sim programmed routes. It looked perfect for my client's project. And it does work, for several days in a row, until a bus eventually goes off-world.

Unfortunately, the system is +Mod and +Copy, but no transfer, while several of the scripts are no-mod. And to program a route and start the bus's script system, you have to be the owner. I had hoped that having mod rights for the owner would suffice, but it won't give me the control menus. So while I can create a route notecard with the duplicate system that I purchased myself, and while I can customize the appearance of the client's busses and install the route notecard, I can't issue the two critical commands to his busses that are needed to load the card data into memory, and to start the bus on its route.

Now I MAY be able to do it with a set of busses owned by me. It announces arrival at a bus stop, so I could issue a command 30 seconds into the 60 second stop that would do an llDie in the bus, and then spawn a new bus form the bus stop. But I am uncertain if I could then issue the needed commands to load that notecard and tell the bus to start patrolling its route.

Oh, I agree. I'm definitely a fan of the Mole works -- more the roads and rails than things like Nautilus or Bay City, even. I consider those to be a big part of making the mainland functional and fun for us residents.

Mari

I said they should peel off the tracks and public roads and turn them into a separate simulator..on a designated server- so there are no more region crossings for vehicles and people in them. I am sure they can figure it out.. we are sending people to Mars soon so this should be a piece of cake for somebody with at least half of a brain ...


The scenery rendering characteristics changed when Havok 4 was launched in April or so of last year and the old system used to render scenery independant of draw distance so there was always a hill or whatever regardless if your mickey mouse computer only could handle a 64M draw distance. The kind of People who sit inside a cartoon house on a poseball all day long or spend all their waking time posting on the never-ending thread on a Forum Site probably never even noticed that anything has changed out there..in the world.. and there are no State lines here. My Graphics settings are just fine.. actually they are better than fine.

Pole Position? .. I know of only one and that is up.

\m/

Actually, I did even though I do post to the neverending thread. Many of my posts there are exploring the grid.

I believe this changed when the graphic settings were changed during the move to Windlight, etc. And I agree., I really wish there was at the least greater draw distances. Maybe worth a JIRA?

How'd you know?

If I could ride all over SL on a train I would. What's more I would use it to show the world to my non-SL and new-to-SL friends. ( I like you Rha. It wouldn't occur to me to get upset when you don't agree with me. I want to hear your opinions. I wouldn't want you to get upset if I don't agree with you either. Because I would still like you.)

the thing is I do not think I am wrong, now do I think you guys are wrong, it is just opinions, there are no right or wrong

how can I be wrong in saying I... me... I do not like trains so there for I... me... I see them as being useless and a waste of resources... opinion, nothing more

trying to change my mind is useless and a waste of your time

a better way to voice your opinion would be to not quote an opposing opinion, and just say... I like trains and I would like to see them finish them

that is an opinion, just like mine

however I am not going to try to change your mind, nor will I say you are wrong and that you should think the way I do...THAT would be wrong... you have a right to like trains, just as I have a right to dislike them, and we both have the right to voice that like or dislike... without having others try to "change our minds, or tell us we are wrong"


I have been thinking about this a lot lately, I see it happen in any thread that is bound to having different views... people tend to get all hot and bothered when someone doesn't see things their way... instead of just shrugging it off and saying oh well, you see it your way I see it mine, they try to change the other person's viewpoint, or belittle them because they disagree....

instead of doing that, folks (including myself) should just say... ok.. you feel that way I feel this way, and move on... and not try to change anyone's mind....

I am going to try that from now on.... sure I will put my viewpoint out there, but I am going to avoid anything that seems to be me trying to change someone's viewpoint or anything that seem confrontational... I respectfully ask that others try this same approach...

I like you too

your post did not quote mine, your post was not directed at mine, your post did not feel as though you were trying to tell me I am wrong... your post was much like mine... a post that voiced an opinion



my posts are not out there to get those who see things the other way to try to get me to see it their way

marianne asked for opinions and I put mine out there
I am sure when she started this thread she did not expect to see everyone want trains???

or maybe she did... I dunno

I almost did not post, because I knew my view would not be a popular one, but I did, because I feel it is a view that should be seen


and when I say the resources could be better used elsewhere I do not mean the "moles" but if they took the wages that they pay the moles and used it to hire more grid monkeys, they could get more of the major stuff done, instead of all the pretties

I know my view is not a popular view and I am ok with that, but trying to change my mind is a fruitless endeavor for anyone to even try... sorry.. my mind is not going to be changed...

and I am not trying to change anyone elses viewpoint, I am just explaining why I see it the way I do and what I feel could be better done... that's all

I hope everyone is having a great 09 (almost put 08 hehe)

that will be difficult getting used to... *ponders* wow... 2009... where have the years gone... (I suddenly feel old... old and tired...) could be that it is nearly 2am too LOL

Doing inspections of the line, most of the items are owned by Michael or Nigel Linden, on all three SLRR lines. SLRR lines are being actively maintained; the Bay City Streetcar being the current test track. Last I heard from Michael was that the Nova Albion and at least one of the Heterocera Atoll tracks was going to be in service by the end of December (as of last night, this hasn't happened yet; Michael has updated the ETA to be "soon.".



Are they actually throwing banlines up on the SLRR right of way there now? Jeez, that's really lousy of Tyr Sartre to do. Bad enough he won't take the buyout from LL to move his full sim to another part of the mainland that isn't in the way of the railroad.

The group Second Life Transit Authority also runs trains on the SLRR and GSLR lines from time to time. Not sure what's going on with the GSLR system other than the Sansara-Heterocera Ferry is running on the channel across ANWR again. Their trains don't seem to be running from Caletta Union Station (heck, the switch still hasn't been built into the SLRR track yet), and I haven't seen any on their track through the Colors province yet.

Heterocera Atoll is pretty small. There's about 12 miles of track, takes about 30-45 minutes to go the entire length. Takes between 30 and 90 minutes to drive the length of the continent depending on the route you take. Longer if you make scenic stops.

Travelling at ground level and without bashing into ban lines or overly-agressive orbs is a great way of seeing a huge variety of builds and scenery.
Travelling slowly (relative to flying) allows the rendering to keep pace with the change in position.

I'd be more keen on getting the roadways paved and sim-crossings smoothed.

The upside for rail is that everyone on the vehicle can relax and look around.
The downside is that it's a fixed route at a set speed.

The upside for roads is that there are choices to be made at every junction. There's an option to stop an look at any time.
The downside is the need for a driver to concentrate on staying on the road and the need to find a place to re-rezz a vehicle if (a) things go pear-shaped, or (b) you unsit in order to walk around an interesting place.

I would see the main advantage of the rail system as being an easy way for people to have the experience of travelling through a large number of sims and seeing a variety of builds and scenery that they very probably would never see otherwise.


The road system could be used for public transport vehicles in the same way that railways can be. If vehicles are phantom then gridlock can be avoided.
The size and appearance of the vehicles, wherther on the railway or the roads could be a matter of choice.

I think it would be wonderful to have the trains operational again, looked after and perhaps even expanded. I would like to see more train links to ferry terminals and air/helio-ports etc too. More and more I am finding tp's to be, whilst very efficient, also very boring.
Lately I have been doing a lot more boating than I used to and am finding it a wonderfully way to see things you would never otherwise discover.
I love the idea of meeting people whilst on "public" transport or waiting for it. Yes, it gets my vote.

Though as far as other ideas are concerned, I would like to see some fairgrounds, theme parks and carnivals being built too if possible.

It's funny, because a lot of the TP versus vehicles discussion is to be one of romance versus expediency. Oddly enough, echoing a lot of RL transportation arguments.

Air/Helo/Airship: I've advocated for more air travel opportunities during Michael Linden's office hours. It sounds like he might finally be seeing that light. He's way too big a fan of seaplanes.



Me too. I actually have had some similar thoughts along those lines.



Worth noting that Nigel Linden is a "legacy" Linden and not with LL at this time. Still inworld, but not a Linden. The Bay City sensor system does not seem to be what is being used for the Atoll trins, which are running on a guiderail system (the track was not retrofitted before the test run mentioned in the OP. It appears to me that only the engines scripts and the truck design sets it apart from the old SLRR vehicles). The status of lines seems to be (I am not Linden nor Mole, but this is from what I hear and see) as follows:

* Bay City Trolley - In Service
* Bay City Balloon - In Service
* Bay City Water Trolley - In Service
* Luna-Dore Trolley - Out of service: crashed on first turn in Luna. System will likely need a complete overhaul in order to work. Est. ETA Mid-2009 at earliest.
* SLRR Mainline (Tuliptree to Bhaga with transfers at Jubata and Clearwing) - Out of service, active work on bringin back to service. Est. ETA now "soon" - perhaps Q1-Q2 2009.
* SLRR spurs - Out of service, Mainline work will benefit these lines. Est. ETA unknown.



Actually, it was a separate issue, while transferring, and not related to that particular location.



I've been seeing an automated train on the northern part of the GSLR lately. I did not check who's it is or any specifics about it. I think it's non-physical movement, and crosses from Cecrotopia to Caletta only. Essentially connects the Ferry port to the "rail mall."

The Ferry does seem to be working well, if a bit fast pulling into those posts sometimes.

The southern line (in the Color sims) hasn't run since Havok 4, and while there was some test work down on the Purple end of it, that seems all but halted for some months.



At Michael Linden's most recent office hours, he did note that Route 10 is coming well along on Jeogeot, and I believe Route 9 and 9a are now done. I gather it's "road moles" working on that part of the project. I need to check out those roads, as I've yet to drive any continents beyond Sansara and Heterocera.

Mari

I just wish there was a train group or some transit group that would let me contribute something...cuz I love making signals for pedestrians, cars...and trains!! If anybody is willing to let me build some signals or signs I am more than willing!

I'm under the impression that the particular staff which work on beautification and "public works" type projects in SL are a completely different animal from the staff which work on programming and grid stability. As such, I don't believe it's an either/or situation; I don't think these folks building and improving the SLRR system are in any way taking or using up resources that could be instead allocated to stabilizing the grid.

First off, ya got caught by a necropost, Dakota.

But yes, it is a different animal. The two Lindens in the SLRR are different from the code monkeys, and work under concierge. Most of the people who actually do the building -- the Moles -- are Residents, not Lindens at all. Almost all the scripting, building, and texturing fro the SLRR is mole-done.

So ya, Monkeys are different animals from Moles.

Keep your eyes peeled for Michael Linden's Linden Department of Public Works to start hiring moles, then.

and because the topic was trains, I would suggest Caledons trains sytems for a fun ride (my favorites: Caledon on the Sea 503 loop to caer firnas/oxbridge (8 sim loop including a sub sea tunnel and the most gorgeous bridge in caledon, and the Kittiwickshire to Tamrannoch run 11 sims, some great photos of that one.)

I find this kind of interesting now that I found it.

For starters, I know the piece of land your talking about, it had been my rental managers plot of land for about 3 years. (Very anchient for SL) As far as i know the ban line had been in place the entire time, so it being something new is false and seems to be an attempt to defame me.
Second, I didn't put up the ban line, it was someone who was renting from me that got tired of people harrasing her in her home. Maybe it was you? It doesn't really matter now to me since I made a land trade awhile back, but before speaking you should find out a few facts.
The first time I heard of the SLRR was while I had taken a break from sl letting my wife and rental manager run my business. I had this little jewel of a message in my email filled with hate and anger telling me what a bad person I was for not letting the RR go through and how I was holding up progress. Since SL had never bothered to contact me, I didn't think much of it, let the person in question know what i thought about it, and went on my way, still wondering why something would just be slapped in without discussing it with people who own land along the route.
Maybe it's a good thing, I was tired of SL and I couldn't even give that land away when I tried. But looking back, that hate filled message is what brought me back to SL, it reminded me of the days of old when i used to brows the forums and would get caught up in what all the angry people had to say.
I would have put tracks in through my sim so people could use it, but my rental manager who had a house on the hill didn't want to move, and since she had lived there for so long it really didn't feel right asking her to move. Regardless I still tried to think of ways to make it work, without being asked by anyone working for LL.
Eventually LL got around to saying something, asking me to donate the land to the SLRR. Most of my prims was tied up in my rental business, so that was out of the question, again, I went about my business, but slowly started to close houses that were for rent, freeing up the sim.
Eventually I got a serious IM about my land in Sinica.....which was hard to let go since I've owned it since my first week in SL, it was this....
[10:01] Michael Linden: Hey, Try, would you be interestedin trading
some of your land in Sinica for some land somewhere else -- nearby or
otherwise>?
[10:01] Michael Linden: The SLRR has always had its eye on the
"missing" right-of-way there.

[10:03] Michael Linden: No compulsion here. Heh, "we can afford to
wait."
I didn't know how to take this, I knew my business had slowly been dieing with all the changes to sl, and...well, it sounded like one of those ebil lines business people use in movies when people are slowly being forced off your land and your the last one left standing.
I took a walk around the RR and realized how far it ran, I still didn't really understand why no one had made a serious offer for my land if it was so important. So I got back to him, I didn't want to give up my land for free really, but I was interested in a trade. Working alot at night time (Usually 16 hours) on Central US times, I really wasn't on alot when the Lindens were, so it made it difficult to get in touch for serious discussions and get things lined up. The first plot of land offered was kind of ok, but it really didn't seem to be a decent deal, after all, I had been very attached to my home.
Finally Guy Linden got in touch with me and seemed to really want to make a deal. He showed me a pretty nice area, and was more then willing to work with me. I didn't want to hold up the RR any longer then needed now that I was fully aware of what was going on, so I made the deal. (I don't read the forums any more usually, all of the hateful stuff is part of why I took a break from SL for a year.)
So, there is always 2 sides to everything, now that it's out there and you know my side of it maybe we can all move on and get over it. A little communication is all that was really needed, in the future, when an idea like this is cooked up, maybe it should be done before all the land is sold, if not, maybe there should be actual communication with the people who own land along the way. Either way i don't really care, I just want to enjoy SL and what it has to offer. Flame away if you must, seems little in SL can be said without needing a flame resistant suit. Either way, I am done with this subject and have moved on.

Thanks,
Tyr Sartre

Not having read the whole thread, I just wanted to add that the trains would be easier to ride if they actually had designated seats with poses, or pose balls. I hate clicking on the entire damned car, choosing "sit here" and being told "there is nowhere to sit, please choose another place."

It's wonderful that the 'missing' section of the rail line is now in place.
I often wondered why the situation had not been resolved.

The diversion warp up and down to the Great Wall was a complete pain - as was trying to drive a train along the Wall. I've found sim-crosssngs to be mostly good along the line, but any bit of lag along the Great Wall section generally meant falling down into the tunnel beneath it.

And to balance the drama somewhat:

The description of the railbed land reads
"Protected land, not for sale. Thanks to Tyr Sartre for help in extending the SLRR through this Region."

There are also little noticeboards thanking Tyr beside the rails