Second Life Railroad

Let me get the questions out of th' way first, so you c'n think about them while lookin' at piccies.

Bearing mind mind that it is not taking people away from other critical issues (stability, governance, etc.), do you feel that Linden Lab should revitalize the SLRR trains, and perhaps expand the train system? What would you like to see them do with trains over all? What other such constructs would you like to see?

Now then...

I got myself signed out of Camp jes to attend. The first public test of a new SLRR train was underway, covering the entire main SLRR route around Heterocera (Tuliptree to Bhaga, with transfers at Jubata and Clearwing). In attendance was a number of Lindens, including Michael (head of LDPW), Jack (Conciergey kinda guy), and others. Operating the test engine was Railway Mole.

The vehicle was not necessarily as pretty as the old SLRR vehicles. It nevertheless had a lot of nice features. It was also manually operated.

Aside from some of the usual region crossing issues, as well as an unfortunate encounter with a ban line during the Jubata transfer (there is a missing section of track there, which necessitated a repositioning of the ride vehicle), the ride was largely smooth. At a cruising speed of 12kph an hour, we crossed the regions with little trouble. We ever did pretty good when we "highballed" all the way up to 51 kph -- though the regions started to have trouble seeing us and little time to draw the world.

Yes, yes there are piccies:

Here's two engines at Tuliptree station before we started off:


Riding towards Jubata:


Highballing on the way to Clearwing, taken at 31 kph:


Readying for the return run from Bhaga station:


Back at Tuliptree, with Kitto Flora (who clearly knows a thing or two about trains) and Railway Mole:


So.. trains. What's your thoughts?

Trains are fun! I want to ride them! I think if we have a working railroad system, it might maybe just help a little bit to revitalize the mainland. I'm all for that.

Dog train!!!

I think... my thoughts are....


LL should go out of their way to facilitate stuff like this and make it work at least as well as some 80's video games which had better performance with regards to moving vehicles. Perhaps they could recode the public roads and RR tracks whatever to be connected as its own sperate sim to avoid the sim crossing problems. Then sim crossings would only be for the AV's entering the public Sim but eliminate Sim crossings for the AV's and vehicles on the roads or tracks.


A RR system that works would be very cool, as well if they restored the graphics settings back to the way they were about 1 year ago when flying around in a plane actually looked halfway decent because the scenery was always there. (they did appear to address this slightly but they need to do more) Having the world cut out with viewer drawdistance makes a horrible environment for any type of moving vehicle - from memory the scenery used to go on for ever and then just fade into a haze.. so even though you couldn't make out details it still gave you the effect of having continious topography.

Very Nice Mari! Thanks for bringing us the info.

I think the LDPW fixing and improving upon things like the trains is great. I think it adds interest to the mainland. I would love to see more things like this, that actually work, for everyone to enjoy.

THis may be OT, but I would like it if things like this were easier to locate for those of us who don't know where to look for them. The wiki page for the LDPW is good, but it would be great if sites like train stations had info about other Linden destinations with landmark givers. Some sort of travel kiosk. Those kiosks could be scattered around other LL project areas too. Maybe the kiosks could be available for residents too, and we could put them out on our own land to help direct people to these resources.



Thank you! I thought I was going nuts remembering this too. I miss seeing things on the horizon or down below when I am flying, rather than a bald landscape.

(As I recall, the arrival of sculpties and the inability to keep up with loading regular textures were more or less synchronous, and as more sculpties appeared, the problem worsened. Could be coincidence, but recently when sculptmap loading priority was boosted, surface texture loading dramatically worsened. Anyway, to the topic...)

I'm very eager for working public rail transport to return to SL. One of my first SL memories is of riding some streetcar from... I guess it must have been Ahern Welcome Area.

It certainly appears as if the original SLRR track plans for Heterocera are lost. There's a spur that runs up to Tussock and stops at a stretch of unsurfaced Route 3. (I can see why LDPW is slow-rolling there: the remaining stretch runs through some embarrassingly rough extortion "terrorforming." Judging by the terrain, it seems clear that the rail was originally intended to run further north and eventually alongside a huge wide swath of Route 4 far to the north. Right now the connecting span is mapped as roadway, and I've seen no relevant railroad maps at all.

That's just one example. For the road and rail networks to make much sense on the map, there are a lot of stretches where they need to share a right-of-way. I don't know whether that will mean a different kind of rail (appearance and/or scripting)--maybe a subway system under some roads, or streetcars, or elevated monorail, or something altogether different.

I saw the SL train pass by atop the hill behind my house just the other day. It's the first time I'd seen it in months. It must take forever to get anywhere on the mainland by train.

Im so gonna go check it out, I just love it when yall bring up things around sl that is new to me.

The local Pole Position machine down at the 7-11 probably did not need to negotiate a sever change from San Francisco to Arizona, Texas, or the UK, either.



Maybe try tweaking your graphics settings (Preferences > Graphics > Custom checkbox). I do personally wish I could choose a draw distance, rather than being stuck with a 512 max. It's rare, but sometimes I want to do these huuuge panaorama piccies like I usedta.



Yer welcome!

The one thing I noticed yesterday was that the people involved obviously care about getting this system right. It was supposed to be up and operational in Q4 of 2008, but is still clearly some time away from final implementation. They want it to be as effortless as possible. And yes, I think this definitely adds to the mainland.



That would be cool. I like that idea a lot!



The Luna to Dore trolley. It's still there... but borked beyond use. I suspect it is going to be worked on some time after the SLRR makes its return too the Atoll, as it was working courtesy of an even more involved system than the Atoll trains were. I know Michael Linden has eyeballed it a time or two.



I suspect that the trains that were initially planned for the Atoll were the work of, perhaps, Nigel, Xenon, Eric, and maybe even Ben Linden. None of them are with the lab anymore, and haven't been for a good, long while. I'd love to know what caused the need for the transfer at Jubata all those years ago, let along the odd issue at Clearwing.

Mari

I love trains. I'm for anything that gets them in SL.

I think there are much more important things for them to be working on... too many to list

however the train is kinda cool if you are into that kind of thing (which I am not)

I personally do not really see a use for it other than maybe people who want to roleplay a train ride or something (being that teleporting is the easiest (most of the time) and fastest (most of the time) way to get from point a to point b)

I say get the grid stable, THEN worry about the pretty stuff...

I'm all for seeing the train system developed.

That looks like fun. I'd really like to see them improve the stability of vehicle hand-offs between sims. I just set up a 4-sim bus system, with busses from Apallon Motors that I customized, using roads I set up which have extremely good handling of the sim-edge issues, and yet the busses *still* on occasion "go off world" when they are moving from one sim to another. This is extremely annoying when you're trying to set up a perpetually running transit system, like a train or a bus line. The busses get returned to my Lost and Found, and then I have to put it back in the sims and reset it, so it will follow the route again.

I think it would be really cool to have the trains running on a regular basis.

The busses are in the RUCE 1 through RUCE 4 sims, set up for Rutgers University. Feel free to visit and go for a ride around all 4 sims.

While stability is important, any cool feature is useless on an unstable grid, I would like to see as many transport options other than teleporting developed as much as possible. I walk whenever possible inworld, and would love to be able to fly aircraft or use various ground transportation more regularly, as opposed to teleporting.

I'm funny, cuz I want both. An really, getting the trains running again (a) isn't taking people away from fixing the grid (the lindens who head the LDPW are not grid monkeys) and (b) is fixing broken, unstable stuff (the SLRR existed, and broke with the addition of stability-inducing Havok4. This is, essentially, introducing a more stable ride system so that we can use this system again in this world).

I TP a lot of places. When I'm in a rush, it's TPing or flying all the way. but I love sailing on the digital waters, and flying my blimp, and riding in my soap box racer. I once enjoyed the Luna to Dore trolley and the SLRR, and enjoy the trolleys and water trolleys in Bay City, Qu Qi's ferry that passes ANWR, the automated flights from Abbot's, and other non-TP transportation. It's nice to feel that there is this big world, and experience that travel. not so much for "role play" (I probably break RP more than preserve it when I'm on vehicles), but for the nature of options within our world.

Mari

A thought: Maybe have a sensor at one of the bus stations that if a bus does not show up, it rezzes a new one on the line?

I think it's important to note that LDPW is sort of like an independent arm of LL. The people doing the work aren't Lindens. They are contractors getting paid (cheaply) by the hour. So the priorities for these people do not need to line up with LL's development priorities, because they are not Lindens. They don't code, and cannot fix the things that we need most.

So making the railroad a priority for them is something that is workable, but in my opinion, it is just one of many things that need doing on the mole side of the house. I want them to finish the roads. Someone who does physics can change their priority and start on the rail, but the road system is vast and needs more work. And then they can start on the public parks and green spaces.

please do not be upset with me because my opinion and thoughts were not for the train system.

The op wanted opinions and thoughts, I gave my opinion and thoughts

I think the train is a waste of time and resources (then again a lot of things in SL are heh)

but just because I do not agree with the "trains are a good thing" doesn't mean people have to try to convince me otherwise or feel they must defend their opinion, and please do not make me feel as though I need to defend my opinion and thoughts


I am the type that doesn't explore the grid much, I stay mostly at my own place doing my own thing, so for me a train really is not something I would use to travel anywhere in SL

again, just my viewpoint....

after all the OP did say....



so, to answer that directly...
even if it did not take people away from critical issues (I do not feel that the train is a critical issue, so the use of "other critical issues" to me is a non sequitur)
so saying, even if it did not take people away from critical issues I feel the train is a waste of time that could be used elsewhere.
I do not feel they should revitalize the SLRR trains, nor expand the system;.
I would like to see them remove the trains, and use the resources (people and grid) for something else.. (not sure what though)
As for other constructs, I would just like to see them get things working properly, fix things that should be fixed, such as database issues, etc
heck, get rid of the folks that can't do that stuff, use their wages to hire folks who can

(yes I am exasperated today, not sure why... just so many things seem broken or working at a bare minimum lately)


And please remember, no one has to argue with me about my thoughts on this, it is not a debatable thing, it is just an opinion, a view point, and probably one that I am not alone in, or if I am the only one to feel this way, then so be it, but I implore you.... please do not feel you need to attack my thoughts or opinions, or try to persuade and convince me that what I feel is the incorrect way to feel.

Stop being so defensive, Rha. Put that on your resolution list. We are having a discussion and no one here is attacking you.

call it a preemptive strike before it happens
(and you did not have to comment on it you know)

with my history here, I am always on the defensive (heck I made a few comments and the replies (to me) felt as though my thoughts were incorrect and they were trying to show me why, when there is no right or wrong, just thoughts, and opinions

I do not do new years resolutions.. they are stupid...

Well you are not the only one here who gets to state your opinions. We respect your opinion and it is not an attack if someone happens to disagree and says so. Just about every conversation here, except maybe the contentious ones over banlines, etc. is just a discussion in which most people can partake and disagree without feeling attacked. You are always feeling attacked, even when you're not being attacked. Enough with the insecurity. People like you, Rha, ok? They are not always going to agree. Feel free to engage and discuss but step back and stop taking things so personally. There is no need for pre-emptive strikes because NO ONE IS ATTACKING YOU.

I agree with both of you on this. It definitely adds something to my SL experience to be able to move around in ways other than walking, avatar flying, and TP'ing. It is a great way to see the grid, and not just see more of it, but see the same things from a new perspective.

you say everyone likes me but I know that not to be true. (I have had people pm me here telling me outright they do not like me, and wish I would leave, keep my opinions to myself cuz no one wants to hear them etc)

as for being attacked, no I did not feel I was being attacked this time, however the feeling I got was that I am wrong, and that I should be for the railroad.

That is not an opinion, that is someone trying to tell another how that other should feel

maybe I took it wrong, as we all know, it is hard to know what is being said when it is text only form

(for example you thought I thought I was being attacked, when that is not what I thought at all, I just felt one coming...)
and as for insecure, thanks for the vote of confidence, but.. I am not insecure, not in the least, I am very secure, with knowing where I stand on these forums

have a nice day (will be interesting to see if folks can voice their opinion without quoting an opposing opinion, I think that is where it starts to feel like one is being picked on as it were...)

(if folks were just voicing their opinion and thoughts as the OP wanted, no one would quote another, as that is not necessary to voice one's opinion... or am I wrong on that?)

my impression is, when someone quotes another it is to directly comment about what the other person said... usually it seems to disagree, when this is not what I thought this thread was about... I thought it was just to put our thoughts out there, be they for, or against...

No one is going to be liked by everyone. But there are plenty of people here who like you. Can't have it all.

That is the nature of the discussion, Rha. I do feel you are wrong, but that ultimately doesn't matter. What I did was give a little bit of information that may change your feelings. You are certainly entitled to not change your mind, but we are allowed to put out information that may change how you feel.

I think your opinion is ill-informed.

Why are we not allowed to have a discussion? If you cannot handle opposing opinions, don't post.

That's certainly true. I think I mentally re-punctuated that to read "other, critical issues."

There's a bit of a chicken-and-egg problem between, on the one hand, residents feeling drawn to explore the grid, and on the other, having content on the grid worth exploring. I'm sure there are many folks who would never use the rails anyway, but some would, if they were operational.

(Aside: I think the whole revitalization of the Mainland is a strategic business direction for LL because it's something not easily replicated on other grids. Personally, I have increasing doubts about the viability of other grids, but if I'm wrong and they come to pose competition for LL's land-based business model, the Mainland and its many inter-sim features is something not readily duplicated elsewhere.)

So, leaving aside whatever maudlin nostalgia I may have for trains, objectively, would they bring people out of their skyboxes and into the grid? And what could make that experience as valuable as possible?

Solitary exploring can be fun, but a cross-continental train ride also could be a great social venue. To me anyway, a continent's builds passing by the window is certainly a better ice-breaker than a club full of toons doing all the same dances to the canned enthusiasm of a host's gesture inventory. That is, the rails could be a place to meet interesting folks just by accident on normal runs, or a good option for group outings.

Nimue's idea of making Mainland destinations easier to find is also a great suggestion, and the rails could help, with train stations--even perhaps the trains themselves--dispensing travel info.