SL Banks are Toast - Yee Haw!

Ever heard the term 'accessory to a crime'?

The getaway car driver might not rob the bank or shoot anyone - but he's still involved.

If a bank is breaking laws - by operating without a license - then anyone investing in that unlicensed bank is assisting that operation to continue illegally.

If a bank is not breaking laws - ie is licensed in real life - then all they have to do is provide LL with a copy of the relevant paperwork, and we're all able to continue happily investing in proper regulated banks.

As a retired cop I certainly know the difference between an accessory and a victim.

Lending my money to someone who says they will give me a return in the form of interest is not a crime in any jurisdiction that I am aware of. And I also know that if the person makes a fraudulent claim about their intention/ability to pay me back then they are guilty and I still remain a victim.

Nothing about the specific person/SL entity that I lent my money to makes me believe that he is a criminal. But apparently he is considered as such simply on the basis of the history of some other people. Looks like a very slippery slope to me.

Good grief, this has nothing to do with who is innocent and who is not. It's expediency. It's far more expedient to just ban all 'banks' than it is to try and find out who is innocent (for now) and who fully intends to run away with your money in the next five seconds!

How would they verify innocence anyway?

How long the 'bank' has been around? Ginko was around for at least a year, although I keep wanting to say two years before he did the skipper on it.

Demand to see the records to verify it meets all the requirements? Somehow I can't see LL hiring more people to keep up with this part AND still be able to police the grid. Not to mention that this goes against the whole "we don't get involved with the agreements between users." Also, there are RL agencies that handle this, so why not just go ahead and get the license at that point?

Are they supposed to go by reputation? [sarcasm] That's great! We'll take polls and see who has had good service with such and such 'bank.' If they don't have a certain imaginary number of satisfied customers, it hits the door with a thud. [/sarcasm] I could list so many things that are wrong with this one but I'll shorten it to, "They game traffic.. so imagine what they'd do to game this?"

By percentage of interest offered? What is written isn't always what is received.

So long and short.. it's easier for LL to just ban them all than it is to sift through for the 'good banks.'

I suspect that LL would resist it very strongly.

What you need to remember, when you think about these things, is that selling L$ for real money was only a "stopgap" measure, introduced _by residents_, to deal with the otherwise screwy economic situation after tier fees were imposed.

Removing it would re-create the old broken situation (which was that users who earned L$ by making content couldn't get more land, because they weren't getting any more US$ to pay their tier fees with; and people ready and willing to pay tier fees couldn't get the amount of land they wanted because they didn't have enough L$ for the initial purchase)

QFFT!

And even still it wouldnt be actual sex.

"They even have a sensor pack you wear on your real life body, and the whole thing plugs into the USB or Firewire ports."

I'll wait until the wireless version comes out, shopping maybe fun once again.

As a retired cop, do you have any handcuffs lying around? There are some threads that need restraints.

how are they punishing you?

By not letting you invest in unregulated, possibly illegal banks and investment funds?


Tell you what; Write your Congressman, MP, Burgher, Mullah, Cardinal, or Witchdoctor.

actually it can be defined as Sex, but yes it won't be copulation.

What an excellent idea. Just arrest people who look guilty it must be much more convenient than trying to look for evidence and proof and old fashioned stuff like that.

Innocence should never need to be proven. It is the duty of the accuser to prove guilt. Innocence should be presumed until there is evidence to the contrary.

And I speak as someone who has been quite willing to work hard at finding proof of wrong doing without making a presumption of guilt.

In the real world you are correct. But this is LL's sandbox. You play with their toys according to their rules, you find a way to circumvent the rules and not get caught, or you leave, pretty simple.

If these "banks" are honest then you will get your money back. If they aren't, well it doesn't make a hell of a lot of difference then does it?

Actually, in the real world you need approval to start a bank, too. (I believe in the UK you have to be vetted by the Bank of England.)

I was speaking of his "innocent until proven guilty" premise.

What I'm seeing a lot of folks missing is that LL's hand was forced. They never act until they have to (age play was acted on only after the damaging news article. Casinos were banned only after the FBI arrived).

They are only doing this for long-term self preservation. It's a lot less expensive to pull the plug now than to wait until they have to call their lawyers, or shut down the Grid entirely.

My uncle's a vet. I'll go and ask him.

As someone said earlier, it's really not a question of who's honest or not. There's simply no such thing as a trustworthy bank in SL, no matter how honest or pure the intentions of those operating them. I don't even think Ginko intended to have things end up as they did and they may not have even known what a ponzi scheme is or why they're so bad. It's a moot point. Things like the Ginko collapse aren't just bad for the depositors who lost money, they're bad for SL and everyone who sells products or services here because of the negative effect they have on people's confidence in the platform and economy. The more SL is viewed by the world at large as Scam Life, the more it hurts all of us.

Well said Chip.

I think that those who were part of the "SL Financial Services Community" had too much tunnel vision to see that.

Who the HELL was going to pay Linden Labs to regulate the SL Banking/Stocks Industry?

Were still trying to get them do do some of the things we ARE paying them for, like improve stability.

Just for clarity here is a summary of my thoughts:

1) I don't agree with the new policy in principle, I should be allowed to lend money to someone on their promise to 'do the right thing' any risk is mine.
2) I stand by my belief that innocent until proven guilty is the mark of a civilised society.
3) I don't for an instant think this change will destroy the SL economy - VAT did far more harm, in my opinion and things are continuing after that disgrace.
4) Sex and the sale of sexually related material will be the next 'stand' by Linden Lab as most RL people I speak to think that is the main reason for and problem with SL.
5) Linden Lab should pay for any regulation that THEY deem necessary.
6) I don't for an instant think that the policy will change and my comments so far have been simply to express my disappointment at their removal of yet another small income stream for some people who, believe it or not, actually depended on it. Yes I do know such people, their comments about LL would not be repeatable in this forum.
7) Just for the record, I have no involvement whatsoever in any bank, stock market or other 'financial organisation' in SL except as a small investor.

In the RL US and many RL countries, this is correct. But this isn't a country, it's a business and as such, they are going to work with the bottom line. Bottom line isn't about 'whose guilty, whose innocent,' it's simply about saving money while still offering the customer decent service and preserving one's reputation.

Also, you want proof of guilt?



In the US, one must have proper approval/forms/insurance to call oneself a bank and now, it's merely the same in SL. To operate without that approval, one is guilty of fraud at the very least, possibly more. Now, if a bank in SL wishes to continue doing business, they will have to become a RL bank, follow the same RL laws and regulations as the non-virtual ones. The 'bank' you're currently doing/did business with could get the approval, but most likely won't/can't because it didn't follow even the basic procedures of being a bank.

If it did, I see now reason why it shouldn't just try it and see. Then it'd get the publicity of being the first real SL bank if it federal guidelines.

Come to think of it, this situation we're seeing is probably why and how banking regulations came into being in the first place.

My view is that the daily perception of SL as a pornographers paradise does much greater harm to the reputation of SL than the occasional financial scandal. And in that area, I would suggest, 'stay tuned'.

Exactly.

I really didn't get why the SL Banks thought they were immune from RL laws anyway.

the Age Verification and IDV will go a ways to toning that down.

Think that was part of the plan all along.

I have a feeling that parcels that are "Verified only" will eventually not show up on searches for people who are unverified.

I'm not for a moment expecting or even asking LL to change their mind. I'm simply stating my point of view.

My point is is that in the beginning, banks existed without regulation. Regulation was imposed on a pre-existing system of commerce. People simply had to trust the banks and the regulation followed when that trust started to break down. SL is still very new. things are being tried that LL obviously never anticipated and this form of banking is simply one of them. Regulate it, by all means but the need has to arise before the regulation. And in reality the provision of that regulation should not be beyond the wit of man or avatar.
Sorry I'd already typed all that stuff up there before I saw this comment, and I'm not going to remove it now. I'm sure you are correct.