SL Banks are Toast - Yee Haw!
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Carl Metropolitan
Registered User
Join date: 7 Jul 2005
Posts: 1,031
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01-08-2008 13:04
From: Rebecca Proudhon ---And eventually the linden exchange for real money feature will go as well. because sooner or latter LL will have to file paperwork and registrations they won't want or be able to file. Not going to happen; here's why: 7,337,693 US$. That's real US$ money that LL earned over the last 12 months from printing and selling L$ on the Lindex. It's good to be the Fed 
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Ordinal Malaprop
really very ordinary
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 4,607
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01-08-2008 13:04
From: Lindal Kidd (But to the person who suggested LL should have frozen the bankers' assets prior to the announcement: Good idea. Wish they had. Instead, they're relying on the dubious honesty of the bankers to "honor their commitments". Pffft.) I imagine that changing the ToS retrospectively to say that people actually have to honor commitments within SL would be opening quite an enormous oil tanker full of worms. The last thing they want to get involved in is governance decisions. The decision would have been something like "ban the banks, let existing customers sort their own compensation out, they'd have to when the banks folded anyway".
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Bee Mizser
Registered User
Join date: 22 Apr 2007
Posts: 329
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01-08-2008 13:04
From: Rebecca Proudhon Do you have a pay pal account? Do you have a website? Its not hard to do. It's a bloody site harder than the system we can use right now.
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Hiro Queso
503less
Join date: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 2,753
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01-08-2008 13:09
From: Bee Mizser It's a bloody site harder than the system we can use right now. Agreed. Rebecca, I have read your posts, and I just don't understand why you appear to be so dead against L$. If you want to pay in US$, you can - most prefer to use L$. So what's the real reason you would prefer to see L$ go? <scratches head>
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Rebecca Proudhon
(TM)
Join date: 3 May 2006
Posts: 1,686
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01-08-2008 13:12
From: Carl Metropolitan Not going to happen; here's why: 7,337,693 US$. That's real US$ money that LL earned over the last 12 months from printing and selling L$ on the Lindex. It's good to be the Fed  They may get taken to the grindstone, yes....but I'd say it's better to face the music now then later. Yes it has been nice they can print there own cash and exchange it. Great work if you can get it....till the powers (RL) that be, decide it's time to stop it. BTW, they can still sell Lindens....it's their fictional game.
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Rebecca Proudhon
(TM)
Join date: 3 May 2006
Posts: 1,686
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01-08-2008 13:17
From: Hiro Queso Agreed. Rebecca, I have read your posts, and I just don't understand why you appear to be so dead against L$. If you want to pay in US$, you can - most prefer to use L$. So what's the real reason you would prefer to see L$ go? <scratches head> I'm not against the Linden$ at all. I'd like to see it flourish ingame only. It will only be a small pain to change the system, vs. the major pain of inevitable regulations
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Hiro Queso
503less
Join date: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 2,753
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01-08-2008 13:20
From: Rebecca Proudhon I'm not against the Linden$ at all. I'd like to see it flourish ingame only. And how would they flourish if they couldn't be exchanged for US$? I think you know they wouldn't. So why would you like to see L$ trading for US$ stopped?
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Hiro Queso
503less
Join date: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 2,753
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01-08-2008 13:21
From: Rebecca Proudhon It will only be a small pain to change the system, vs. the major pain of inevitable regulations
OK I replied before your edit to add the above. You don't honestly think it would be a small pain, do you? Seriously Rebecca, I can't help but wonder if you are deliberately being contrary!
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Chilly Charlton
Registered User
Join date: 15 Jun 2004
Posts: 483
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Response to Meade
01-08-2008 13:22
In the "game" of Monopoly there is a "Bank" ... big deal, it's a game and the money is not real.
The big distinction here is if money is or is not real. Either it is or it isn't.
If money in a game is not real then banks are fine, gambling is fine, lots of things are fine.
If the money is real then that's another story.
Well LL is imposing on us restrictions in SL having to do with L$ which imply the L$ are real dollars (FOR US). Gambling, Banks, etc ...
They do not impose this on themselves. They print it!
It's two faced and obvious double standards which serves THEM while restricting US.
Fake for them, real for us. At least thats what the "rules" seem to reflect.
That is why I say Sex is next and eventually the L$ will die.
Sex is next because LL has a relationship with PayPal which will not tolerate sex. Not even cartoon sex.
That the L$ will die because if LL continues to give the community the messaging that the rules pertaining to L$ will mirror rules pertaining to real $ then EVENTUALLY they will have to step up and play by the same rules they are doling out.
They can't have it both ways.
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Roobus Newt
Registered User
Join date: 9 Oct 2006
Posts: 40
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01-08-2008 13:23
From: Beady Voom I know it will not go down well with many on these forums, but there is another view. I've been a depositer with JT Financial for many months, I think, since shortly after it opened.
I've never had a moments doubt about it. I've always had my interest paid on time. I've always been able to get my money out when I wanted it. It paid me a nice little Linden bonus on top of the weekly stipend.
Did I know it was uninsured and unregulated? Of course I did.
Could I stand to lose the 100K+ that I've had in there for a while? Of course I could (in real terms its about £250 - I charge rather more than that for a days work).
Did I lose a moments sleep over it? Of course I didn't.
Do I know that there are people who couldn't afford to lose _any_ money? Yes of course I do. Those people shouldn't put money into things that have risks, like the lottery or bingo games or slot machines - but they do. In RL I don't even buy a lottery ticket, and I've never bet on a horse in my life.
Linden Lab has made a decision. I think its very unlikely that the decision will be reversed and while I don't really agree with it I will live with it.
I do realise that their announcement may well cause a 'run' on the banks involved and will undoubtedly cause short term problems for many of them. Just as their ridiculous ban on gambling did in the recent past. Do I ask myself a lot of questions? I sure do.
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Winter Ventura
Eclectic Randomness
Join date: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 2,579
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01-08-2008 13:23
I'm just worried about what the exchange rates are doing.. so far this morning, I've seen the exchange rate on SLX dip almost 20 cents per 1000L. 
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Rebecca Proudhon
(TM)
Join date: 3 May 2006
Posts: 1,686
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01-08-2008 13:23
From: Hiro Queso And how would they flourish if they couldn't be exchanged for US$? I think you know they wouldn't. So why would you like to see L$ trading for US$ stopped? There are millions of people in other MMO's where millions spend endless hours to make gold, to buy things inworld. I should make it clear that what I am saying here, is not for the sake of any philosophical consideration. In fact I don;t see it as bad....just ultimately, not tenable in the real world for long. I see it as a reality of the real world and all it's regulations, that is catching up with SL, not to mention a huge legal burden to LL.
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Kalel Venkman
Citizen
Join date: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 587
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01-08-2008 13:23
From: Rebecca Proudhon I'm not against the Linden$ at all. I'd like to see it flourish ingame only. It will only be a small pain to change the system, vs. the major pain of inevitabale regulations The third option is to remove institutions which would ordinarily require fiscal regulation, such as any company which offered investment services of any sort (stores don't count, even stores where the major portion of them is not in-world). It's important to remember that this is a simulation we're playing in, not the real world - and not a game either. Real currency is exchanged for $Lindens, and there have to be limits on what you can do with them or people will be defrauded, intentionally and otherwise, out of what amounts to real world dollars. If Lindens are made so that you can buy them but they can never leave the system, the entire economy will collapse overnight, taking Second Life with it.
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Nimue Jewell
Unabashedly Leggy
Join date: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 1,745
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01-08-2008 13:24
From: Desmond Shang Innocent academic researchers: - So much for SL banks. Move on to crack cocaine research or escort studies. ROFL
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Carl Metropolitan
Registered User
Join date: 7 Jul 2005
Posts: 1,031
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01-08-2008 13:26
From: Rebecca Proudhon They may get taken to the grindstone, yes....but I'd say it's better to face the music now then later. You are assuming that the US$ to L$ convertablity is illegal. I don't think there is any reason to think so. Even if someone in the government disagrees with me, 7.3 million a year pays for lots of lawyers. From: Rebecca Proudhon Yes it has been nice they can print there own cash and exchange it. Great work if you can get it....till the powers (RL) that be, decide it's time to stop it. BTW, they can still sell Lindens....it's their fictional game. They won't sell very many of them.
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Rebecca Proudhon
(TM)
Join date: 3 May 2006
Posts: 1,686
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01-08-2008 13:29
From: Kalel Venkman The third option is to remove institutions which would ordinarily require fiscal regulation, such as any company which offered investment services of any sort (stores don't count, even stores where the major portion of them is not in-world). It's important to remember that this is a simulation we're playing in, not the real world - and not a game either. Real currency is exchanged for $Lindens, and there have to be limits on what you can do with them or people will be defrauded, intentionally and otherwise, out of what amounts to real world dollars. If Lindens are made so that you can buy them but they can never leave the system, the entire economy will collapse overnight, taking Second Life with it. But LL ITSELF, is still functioning in ways that cross over boundaries of securities, banking and and currency rules, and to make it even more of a mess, it's international, so it crosses those boundaries in many countries.
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Conifer Dada
Hiya m'dooks!
Join date: 6 Oct 2006
Posts: 3,716
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01-08-2008 13:31
I'm not weeping any tears over the loss of these banks etc. They've always seemed to me to be totally pointless to anyone except their owners, who have the opportunity to run off with the cash whenever they like, even if they are honest bankers who choose not to do so. Theoretically LL might be able to do a runner with our cash too but that would mean a certain end to Second Life and probably serious RL legal consequences!!!
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Yiffy Yaffle
Purple SpiritWolf Mystic
Join date: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 2,802
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01-08-2008 13:32
/me reads the blog and sh1tz a watermelon. "I pulled all my money out of Ginko 1 year before they went belly up so i guess I'm safe. I have about 20 linden invested in ACE, which hasn't grown at all. I could care less what happens to a mere 20 linden anyway."
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Rebecca Proudhon
(TM)
Join date: 3 May 2006
Posts: 1,686
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01-08-2008 13:32
From: Carl Metropolitan They won't sell very many of them. Sure they will. SL is a consumer world.
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Atashi Toshihiko
Frequently Befuddled
Join date: 7 Dec 2006
Posts: 1,423
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01-08-2008 13:32
From: Rebecca Proudhon Do you have a pay pal account? Do you have a website? Its not hard to do. There are plenty of ways to have a free and easy to make website with a pay pal button. The conversion steps are just an extra and slower, step....not to mention that as soon as this happens there will be plenty of website services appearing, ready to set up and designed for SL products. Any issues with transfer of a product can be fixed by LL. Of course it will be a bit clunky at first and something to adjust to---but were it already like that you wouldn't know the difference. The way they did it was a miscalculation from the get go. So in other words, that's a no. There isn't an *easy* way to to it right now. What you're describing would be a hell of a lot slower and involve a lot more steps than simply selling a chunk of L$ once in a while. Having to go through all those steps for each and every micro purchase would be the end of SL commerce. This'll be my last off-topic comment on this concept in this thread. It's clear you are either just funnin' us, or you actually have no idea what you're talking about. Cheers. -Atashi
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Rebecca Proudhon
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Join date: 3 May 2006
Posts: 1,686
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01-08-2008 13:40
From: Atashi Toshihiko So in other words, that's a no. There isn't an *easy* way to to it right now. What you're describing would be a hell of a lot slower and involve a lot more steps than simply selling a chunk of L$ once in a while. Having to go through all those steps for each and every micro purchase would be the end of SL commerce. This'll be my last off-topic comment on this concept in this thread. It's clear you are either just funnin' us, or you actually have no idea what you're talking about. Cheers. -Atashi It really is easy. Is pay pal hard? Is shopping on a website hard? An object can contain a link to a website and certainly there will be many new scripts written to finalize transactions. Nope it's really not hard. What would not be 'easy" would be for the whole thing getting shut down in violation of a jillion rules and regulations from the real world. And keep in mind that I am not saying the Linden$ should go. We can still buy things for ingame use with Lindens---land included---even estate land if the merchant allows that. And if you want to make SL a real hard cash business then go the cash route.
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Conifer Dada
Hiya m'dooks!
Join date: 6 Oct 2006
Posts: 3,716
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01-08-2008 13:40
From: someone I have about 20 linden invested in ACE, which hasn't grown at all. I could care less what happens to a mere 20 linden anyway." But there might be 20,000 residents not caring about their 20L$ in an ACE account. That's about 1492 USD. Christopher Columbus! That's a lot of money!
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Yiffy Yaffle
Purple SpiritWolf Mystic
Join date: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 2,802
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01-08-2008 13:42
I can see how 20,000 people's 20 linden might be a lot. But i pay more then that every day on uploads heh. I put that 20 in to see if the bank works and it obviously didn't. 
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Carl Metropolitan
Registered User
Join date: 7 Jul 2005
Posts: 1,031
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01-08-2008 13:42
From: Chilly Charlton IThat is why I say Sex is next and eventually the L$ will die. Sex is next because LL has a relationship with PayPal which will not tolerate sex. Not even cartoon sex. Actually, PayPal does tolerate some sexually oriented items, but that's beside the point. LL does not sell sexually oriented items or services. Some people using LL's servers may, but that does not mean LL does. Consider this example. A webhosting company takes PayPal to pay webhosting fees, and a website hosted by that company sells "Live Sex Chat" services. They webhosting company and the sexually oriented website are two different businesses. PayPal will deal with the webhosting company, but not the website.
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Trout Recreant
Public Enemy No. 1
Join date: 24 Jul 2007
Posts: 4,873
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01-08-2008 13:42
lol - Bradley. Excellent picture!
In other news, CartelTrustAccount Mumfuzz hasn't been seen or heard from since he went on the lam following this announcement. Since he IS the bank, presumably he's been sentenced to death in absentia. I would argue that this violates Article 3 of the US Constitution, requiring due process, but in all honestly, the US Constitution doesn't apply in SL, and I'm too lazy to check to see whether Article 3 is due process. It might be his right to keep and bear parrots for all I know.
He was last seen heading South into the void on a stolen biplane (Hey! Bastard! Give that back!) screaming, "You'll never take me aSLive you stinkin' Lindens!!" Frankly, I suspect he went the way of Amelia Earhardt, the Lindbergh kid and several escaped nazi war criminals (hah! Godwin! I win). He'll never be seen or heard from again. He's probably on some undiscovered southern continent sipping a pina colada and getting a foot massage from his cabana girl while running a sweatshop where workers make 10L furniture for 3L/20 minutes and an illegal gambling hall. Lucky SOB.
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