anybody else beta testing blue mars

But I *can* rez my nifty car ALMOST anywhere I go in SL, if not i the parcel I'm in, in one nearby. I can usually even find a spot to rez my house to show someone, even if it can't stay rezzed. Only in situations where an entire estate is no-build would I be unable to go a short distance and build, and that just doesn't happen often. The situation that will be the norm in BM is very much the exception in SL.

Setting up shop is not the normal case. Because you don't need to "set up a shop" to give someone something you made.

But even so... there ARE malls that allow newbies to set up shop for free. There are yard sales. There are malls with very cheap rental. It's almost unheard of to have to actually ask someone to "set up a shop".

Because it's hardcoded in the game engine. It's not in SL, so such restrictions are extremely rare in SL. I think I've been told to take my weaselly butt out of dodge maybe three or four times, total, in as many years. Usually I get compliments.

There is no mainland in BM.

I took a little peek inside BM, and yes, it's easy (now) to create your own content, provided you have all the appropriate third party tools (which tend to be more costly than the occasional third party tool one needs for SL). This includes upload of your own textures.
Which I find extremely funny, since that's one of the biggest sources of client side lag in SL: things take ages to rez because of the textures take ages to load.
Soooo this means, that for that factor, SL texture lag == BM texture lag.
Mind you, anyone can get the developer tools now, and registration as developer is free. However, this does NOT imply that these services/tools will be available when BM leaves Beta. No prices for *anything* have been given yet.

The possibility to impose avatar restrictions on clothes worn and objects used in a BM sim also adds some more interresting problems:
-Why would people buy your awesome product if they can't use/wear it in the next sim?
-Where will people see your creations, if nobody is showing them off outside the sim where they bought them?
-Of course, disabling "foreign" products from a sim won't be done everywhere, but it will be done, since.. It's the ideal measure to prevent griefing tools!

As for serverside lag: BM has all these nice targets for concurrency. Which is basically the same as LL, who also have targets for concurrency. Nothing new there, Let em show they can make it happen. LL can probably prove they can get 1000 avatars on a single sim too, but what does that prove? Nothing, it just means they managed to do it under the circumstances they set for it.

Thank god for that! The City I am building is equivalent in size to 1024 SL sims, and no sim-crossing problems anywhere.

In SL sim owners can switch off Object Rezzing and Scripts. Same goes for BM. Why on earth do you assume that land owners in BM will be more restrictive than landowners in SL?? Just a slur for slur sake, IMHO.




Wrong. We have teleporting right now, and a more powerful teleportation process at that. For example, we can view the teleport destination first before deciding to go there in person. We can also detach our cameras, send it for a flight over huge areas, and when it sees something interesting we can teleport there instantly.

I have seen the prices, people have nothing to worry about there. The NDA prevents me from saying more, and I wouldn't post prices in the SL forum anyway. BM are currently offering free apartments to helpers, guides and mentors. What do SL provide for their volunteers?

There is beauty in SL, that cannot be denied. But it has to be accepted that the tools are very limited, and with greater tools greater things are possible. A poor but talented artist may create wonderful art with a pencil, but give him a fully equipped studio and the possibilities are endless. For example, in SL you can only apply 4 textures to a terrain. In BM you can paint every single pixel. This is an immense improvement and can lead to incredibly detailed landscapes, that is just not possible with SL.

In Blue Mars today all the girls (and some of the guys) were playing with the built-in Cosmetics Editor. Makeup, facial tats, and kitty looks were all being experimented with. Can you do any of that inside SL?



Blue Mars and SL, loving every minute of both of them, for very different reasons.

Rock

But suppose I do decide to become a City Developer and throw at the Blue Mars platform the same sort of money and time I threw into this platform in the first 2 years I was here. I haven't seen the prices for this priviledge because I haven't yet contacted AR about it tho the website says:



So I haven't seen the pricing, have you?

Say I decide that the City I want to develop has a theme of Creative Freedom and I set up this City in such a way that there is a Creative Common area where people can freely exchange merchandise or even just show off what they have been tinkering with lately. That to make money off of this City I would set up a residential region of small areas where people could have permissions to set up/build/change anything they wanted within that area as well as the ability to allow friends to do the same. I would rent out these residential areas at a rate comparable with making enough money to cover my costs and perhaps keep an eye towards trends in residents needs and wants to find ways to make a profit from my philanthropic endeavors. Free for anyone passing thru, pay for permanent priviledges.

If you didn't have that sort of Creative Freedom in other BM cities, would that make the City of Creative Freedom more attractive? Would people want to live there, where they could have the same sorts of freedoms that are so important to you here on this platform? That City is possible. Or at least it hasn't been proven impossible to my satisfaction.

You guys keep telling me all the things BM won't be and can't be, but how can you know? Yes it's empty right now, yes there's very little to do, yes yes yes it's not a finished product blah blah blah blah blah. Don't make me pull out my ancient screenshots of this platform because I have dozens of in-world pics to prove how empty and ugly this place was when I got here. The things of profound beauty that I still see in SL are triumphs of creativity with a very clunky set of tools. I love SL sincerely, regardless of how much I have come to disrespect it's management because I realize that SL is far more then the nincompoops at the wheel.

This is a new platform with completely different people at the wheel. I have no idea yet whether these devils are any better or any worse then the devils I already know. But I'm excited to find out. Maybe that's just the warm and fuzzy sadomasacist in me.

While you are looking for all the possible negatives, I'm looking at all the possible positives. In a year, if you guys turn out to be right, I will absolutely believe you next time you tell me not to bother exploring something new. I'll even bake you all your own pies

But for now I am a happy explorer.

Because BM is giving them the ability to be more restrictive than SL. You keep saying "sim owners can switch off object rezzing and scripts", but in reality the ability to switch things off in SL is extremely limited. Script limits cut out if you fly high enough. There's almost always a parcel nearby you can rez objects in. Many of the restrictions in SL are *completely* meaningless, and yet people apply them. Give people the ability to be more restrictive, they will be more restrictive.

Never ceases to amaze me how often you knock SL.


Wrong. You can teleport within a city not between cities. And, yes, have been there to explore, please see my previous post.

There use to be free land in SL as well. That's always a good loss leader to attract business.

Finally some acknowledgment from you that this is true.

Limited only by your imagination and abilities. What program can not be used to enhance SL builds? You will be using third party tools for BM development. Does that make their tools very limited?

Then please quit knocking SL on the grounds that BM is so superior. Of course SL has limits. Duh. And, we have yet to see what limits are imposed by developers in BM.

What are you offering the end user in your BM build? Seriously.

How on earth do you think you get to any City in BM? It is precisely the same as in SL, you click on a LM and off you go. During beta you need to return to Destination Island first before choosing another destination, but in the next release on Wed next week you will have a destination list to slect wherever you wish to teleport to.


This is not free land, and it is not to attract business. This is a reward program for those who help out, very different, and I think you know it.


I have already posted details of my build in the Blue Mars Forum. It will be the same RP experience as here in SL, except on a much larger scale. It will hold thousands of avatars (not limited to 20 or so), be lag-free, smooth transportation over large distances, finely detailed monsters and fabulous creatures, and precisley the same freedoms as in my current SL sim, with one exception. Now I can stop those idiots who fly around my 1001 Arabian Nights themed sim in their Black Hawk helicopters, orbiting my residents, and restrict flying to only those who can acquire a magic carpet (there will be a range of games and quests to allow people to acquire these), or the services of a genie.

Rock

In other words, you're creating a game, not a world.

That's probably the smart way to go. It's proven much more popular than Second Life. But it's not the same kind of thing as Second Life in any sense.

This is just what I've been wondering since I first heard of Blue Mars. Unless there's some special barrier to entry enforced at the system level (I dunno... "certification required for content upload" or something), I would think that such "creative freedom cities" would become ubiquitous, with those that were restricted to the anointed developers fading into the insignificance of corporate vanity sims in SL.

Or maybe the market would prove that wrong. Maybe the winning product is the perfectly crafted self-contained vision. It's just that, in SL, the folks who tried that have pretty much all fallen off the grid, more or less completely.

I keep hearing this "developers, the annointed ones" cropping up. Which brings a big question to my mind. What is one of the biggest contributors to SL's lag? Is it not the vast amount of textures, prims, scripts, animations, gestures that are mostly "developed" by non professional creators? Isn't SL's lag one of the biggest gripes most people bitch about? Could it not be the Blue Mars's developers want to avoid that system wide problem that SL suffers on it's platform (with no way out of this "flaw" without a complete rebuild of the platform)? Many creators here in SL simply do not have the required knowledge to make textures, scripts, gestures, animations and anything else they can upload to SL in an efficient manner. BM's requirement of some sort of 'proven' ability to create in an efficient manner seems to me to be a pretty darned good policy.

No one knows what BM will become. No one knew what SL would become back with it was less than a year old either. Dissing and speculating (negatively) on something that is just now in the infancy stage of developement is showing a great deal of ignorance in my opinion.

And yes, I'm waiting for my invite to join the public Beta Testing. I check my email several times a day to see if it came. I intend to go there with an open mind. Look it over and see for myself. If I find it's something I like, I'll stay........if not I'll leave. But dissing it won't be something I do........not publically anyway. By the way, I get the distinct impression that most of the dissers here have never been there............I wonder where they get their "facts".

And for Rock!!! Can you put in a good word for me? I want my invite Joking, of course, but dammit I'm anxious to try Blue Mars out..........SOON!!!

How on earth do I think how I can get to any city? I start off at home which is room with poster boards with a picture of my intended destination. I click that particular board and the city loads. That's not a TP, it is the city loading. Then, when I want to visit somewhere else, I go back home to that room, pick another board, and that city loads. There is NO TP between cities. This is not a criticism, just an observation in response to your insistence that there is a TP function between cities.

BTW, it should be noted that when you download and install the BM viewer, one needs to select what cities to load.

Nope, I don't know it, but you obviously missed my allusion to what I was referring.

I look forward to a visit, but just wish you would quit your criticisms of SL. That is so annoying and a put down of SL creators.

BTW, if anyone who thinks I am criticizing BM, please read my earlier post, which I will not repeat here. There, my observations are stated quite clearly based on BM being an alpha release for the end user. So far, my current points are not about what BM is missing but rather a response to those BM devotees who feel the need to put down SL to build BM up as the greatest thing since the printing press and assuming that BM will have features it currently does not. BM is the name for a platform, and it will succeed or fail depending on the experience developers provide in their own cities.

Eventually I suspect we'll see large, active, thriving communities in the virtual worlds. I remain amazed at how thinly populated sl remains. I suspect that this is largely because we're still way out on the thin edge of the wedge - it would appear that most folks are simply not computer-lit enough to be comfortable inhabiting a place like SL. Something tells me that's going to change in a very big way over - say - the next twenty years. Technical specifics aside, the goal for many is probably going to be the alleviation of social isolation - loneliness. It all has to be made easier to use, more transparent. Limiters such as broadband infrastructure, graphics horsepower - all that stuff is being knocked into shape as we speak. Pretty amazing process to watch. Speaking for myself, I'm usually completely amazed that SL works at all, and pretty grateful that it does.

....................


Hmmm..........would you please enlighten me how SL's tp's are any different? When you pull up a landmark, choose a distination from the map, or click on any SLURL what happens? Does the distination location not load into your viewer just as you stated happens in BM?

Me thinks someone is being a little more than a bit creative with words here.

I'm very creative, in a way, if nothing else.

In SL, you save a LM, click it, and presto you are transported, gawd willing and the creek don't rise. Or, you bring up the map, click a point, and viola, there you are, barring intervention from the Fates.

Currently, in BM, if you want to visit another city, say you are in New Venice and want to go play golf, there is a "home" button you press. You are then "transported" home.

At the home station, which is where everyone else is choosing a destination, there you will find picture poster boards of all possible city/islands that you touch to load your new destination. There is no list, such as LM used in SL. The city/island loads and you find yourself at what could be considered similar to an SL hub. There may be a LM feature between cities someday in BM, but it isn't there yet. Also, TP destinations within a city are at the sole discretion of the developer.

Keep in mind also, that cities need to load files on your computer before you go anywhere in BM. Maybe someone in the know can explain what is in those files, though I do understand the need for such.

If I am not using the correct terminology for the TP system in BM, credit it to my lack of knowledge about its inner workings.

How was I in the creativity department?

Pretty good. However even though, at the present time, you cannot save a LM to your inventory (or whatever the developers of BM will call it) you are still doing the same thing in BM as you do in SL............choosing somewhere to go, clicking it, loading the distination data to your viewer, and "arriving". It's my understanding that the developers' plan is to have a more convenient way to get to where you want to go in the future. Something about mousing over or clicking a map location choosing from there or something similar. Yeah it might be a different way of getting somewhere but it's the same thing..........clicking on a location within the grid and going there (we happen to refer to that excercise as tping......but it's actually just loading the data from the servers to your viewer so you can "visit" the desired location). Your avatar does not actually move anywhere.....it stays right with your viewer on your monitor.

And did you not know that estate owners in SL can restrict entry to their sims? Saying that a City Dev can restrict access and is something that is different from SL is just not true. Estate owners can (and some do) restrict access right now in SL.

So I'm not convinced you enlightened me at all........sorry.

I am still puzzled how SL & BM are similar. If I choose to TP from Caledon to a Mainland sim, I just bring up the map point and click. I do not need to first leave Caledon to choose a new destination. In BM, if there were separate areas called Caledon and Mainland, I would need to leave Caledon, go to the special portal room, and then find and choose the Mainland.

If Avatar Reality makes available a TP system between cities/islands/games, then that's a good step. However, at the moment it is a bit clunky. Not a criticism, just an observation, and it is dissimilar to a TP in SL.

This is an exaggeration, but the current BM platform for moving from one city to another is like shutting down one computer program to start another.

Developer dependent is correct. But again you mention grid. Is grid for you every city within BM or just the current city you are in? There is a big difference between the two.

Ah, yes, I did know. but am really puzzled by this comment because I did not mention access restriction at all. Where did you read that? I would appreciate you quoting me.

I did say that it is at the discretion of a city developer to allow a TP within their city. An observation which had nothing to do with how SL operates.

I am not out to convince, or enlighten anyone, or change anyone's mind. Heck, can't do that for myself. I am making observation about how the CURRENT cities on the BM platform operate. Nothing more. I just don't think it is really handy to have to leave a city, go to the waiting station, land on someone's head, and then load another city. Simple. If it changes in the future then great.

Though I was very tempted to describe a TP in BM thusly:

It's just a jump to the left
And then a step to the right
With your hands on your hips
You bring your knees in tight
But it's the pelvic thrust that really drives you insane,
Let's do the Teleport Warp again!

Here's what I took to mean that "restricted access" statement I made (from post number 63):

"Also, TP destinations within a city are at the sole discretion of the developer."

I may have misread that slightly...........sorry.

I'm not really wanting you to convince me of anything. I think I know what you are getting at with the TP's. But, since we are talking about beta software for a virtual world that is in it's very early infancy stage (and the developers have said the tp method is being worked on) I'm wondering why tping in SL and BM are different. The same thing is happening when you go anywhere in the grid.........just the temporarily having to go back to a portal first seems to be your hang up. That's something that will very likely change (I'd say pretty early in the development stage since having one portal for much more than a few avatars is not practical...........I'm assumming that Blue Mars will grow to more than just a few avatars).

And to answer your question about what I consider the "grid". The grid would be Blue Moon as a whole..........the same as Second Life.

NP, most likely I was not clear.

I am not hung up on it at all, and this grew from a teeny, tiny observation I made some time back that included many other observations, but people keep pouncing on me about that one thing, the TP system, and I respond.

My real hangup, if you go back and read my previous posts, are the BM devotees who put down all the beauty and creativity in SL. I do so wish for BM to be publicly opened so that those individuals can gloat from over there.

Many of the people who have posted in BM related threads are very level headed and realistic. My comments are directed at the very few who think "SL residents are blingtards and trailer trash." Not my words, someone did say that.

There are other questions, of much more of substance, I have about BM that people in the know have never answered in my previous posts. Those I would like answered.

Then if the BM grid consists of all the individual developer islands, and a map is available to TP to other cities, from within a city, than that would be great.

Well to be quite honest, I've never been in BM. All I know is what I've read and from one person I know well enough to trust her judgement who is a developer beta testing right now. I'm waiting for my invitation to download the public beta client as I type. I think if you search my posts (all 3000 plus) you will find very few out and out bashes on SL........yeah I've lashed out a few times early in my residency about things, but overall I happen to like SL a great deal. I don't, however, consider myself a true devotee to SL since their customer support system sucks so much and LL appears to just not care. I'll jump ship on that single point alone. But for the over quality of SL I have no serious gripes.

I understand where you are coming from now..............and thanks for "enlightening" me. You actually did do that too.

I made a six part video series inside of Blue Mars and what is going on there.

Check it out!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ravenelle/sets/72157622055709218/

Thanks Ravenelle........now I really can't wait.

And one dear person mentioned she can't wait to try her horses, and I told her I'm ready to ride!

Certainly there is room for improvement in the SL platform. But, the creativity and talent here is astounding.

Agreed, customer service, especially with the implementation of new ideas, is sucky. But, do try to stay around, 'cause you are a good person and SL needs good peoples, and remember that the sun'll come out tomorrow, bet your bottom dollar on tomorrow!

Awww, shucks ma'am, didn't mean too . . . and anyway, someone with the name of Peggy must be wonderful [I have a sister named Peggy who is wonderful!].

'Teleporting' between sims in SL and cities in Blue Mars is exactly the same process. You are logged out of one server and logged into another. The only difference is what you put on the screen while this is going on. In the case of SL you get a black screen with a teleport progress bar, and in Blue Mars you currently get a screen with 'Loading' on it.

The present Destination Island with destination boards will disappear by midnight tonight. It will be replaced by destinations in a selectable list (no precise details yet, we shall have to wait and see when the open beta starts on the 2nd Sep).

I have been currently working on a Stargate-style teleporter for Blue Mars, to help another developer, where you just walk into it and out the other side into another City. It is very smooth, nothing to click, it works on collision detection, almost instant (I am working on some wormhole effects to cover any time involved, as it will vary from PC to PC) and you don't emerge with either your hair or your shoes up your butt!

So, from Wed everyone should be able to teleport from any city to any city, but teleporting between destinations within a city will be up to each City Developer, but with Cities up to the size of 1024 SL sims it would be suicide for a Developer who did not include methods to get quickly from one part of his city to another.

In my City teleporting is not allowed, but you can travel fast by magic flying carpet. The carpet will respond to a destination name in open chat, and to such words and phrases as 'quickly' 'take your time' etc. The 'quickly' option is a breathtaking journey, as the carpet does not just fly up, then straight to the final destination, then down; no, it goes there in a cruise-missile sort of way, trying to go in a straight line, only two metres above the surface, and making split second detours through markets, under bridges, through windows, sideways through archways, etc. Beware, I did warn you!

Rock

Teleporting in SL has not involved logging out of one server and logging in to another since 1.7. In 1.8 the process was changed to be no different from walking across a sim border.

Granted I'm an average user of SL, not an expert.

But after reading all about Blue Mars for so long I was very excited when I got my invite to try the Beta.

I logged in last Friday, developed my avatar (very disappointing experience I must say) and went to the beach.

First thing I'll say is there needs to be some instruction! I found moving around to be almost impossible, other than clicking in one place, placing a triangle there and watching as my avatar moved to that spot.

I couldn't even figure out how to turn around!

If there is the ability to cam about I couldn't find it at all.

All in all my time in Blue Mars was very disappointing and put me off it completely. Not that I'm going to give up that easily. I'll be back to try to conquer it, but my first visit left a bad taste in my mouth.

Was it beautiful? Well, yeah I guess. Nothing spectacular tho. I've seen equally as beautiful in SL.

I went to the waterfall and couldn't even move. Just stand in one spot. Not sure what that was about. I couldn't even see my avatar.

So for all of you casual SL users, Blue Mars is quite difficult to learn how to use, but I encourage you to give it a try anyway.

Handy.