Spamming The SL Search Systems

This is about the search systems, and not about mass invites to groups, and things like that.

Many people automatically assume that anything that looks and feels spammy is necessarily spam and therefore wrong, but that's a mistaken view. It's understandable that people hold that view because it comes from web search systems and is merely something that's been heard. It is generally agreed in the search engine world that the *only* people who decide what is and isn't spam are the search engines themselves, and each one decides for itself. Each one decides for itself what it accepts and what it rejects, and there are no overall rules about it. For instance, one engines will not want website owners to solicit links to their sites solely for the sake of improving the site's rankings. For that enine, it's spam. Another engine will accept the soliciting of links for that purpose, and yet another will positively recommend it. For those last two, it's not spam. (Google is an example of the third engine, albeit with certain provisos).

The point I'm making is this. Just because something is considered to be spam somewhere, does not mean that it's spam everywhere. Here in the forum we have people talking about things like keyword stuffing and calling it spam, just because they've heard about it with respect to some web engines, but they don't know much about it, and they don't know that it's considered to be spam by all web engines. Some people think that a parcel's description that consists of nothing but keywords and keyphrases is keyword stuffing and therefore spam, but it isn't. It's just their lack of knowledge on the subject (what they've heard) that leads them to think it.

Most web engines provide statements, in the form of guidelines, as to what they consider to be spam and unacceptable. When they come across something new that they don't want, they include it in their guidelines so that everyone can be aware of what is not acceptable to that engine - what *that* engine considers to be spam.

The SL search systems also have guidelines, called rules; e.g. see the rules concerning the posting of events. If there are no guidelines/rules against something, then it isn't spam for that search system. I.e. real keyword stuffing is perfectly acceptable to the SL search systems - it is not spam. *Only* LL decides what is spam for their search systems. The fact that LL is slow or unwilling to write up some rules doesn't make any difference. If *they* don't call it spam or unacceptable, then it isn't spam or unacceptable, regardless of what some people prefer to think.

So things like so-called keyword stuffing, html page manipulation, traffic manipulation, paying for picks, etc. is not spam. Some people may not like it, but it isn't spam or unacceptable unless the search engine (LL) says it is. They know all about those things and haven't said anything against them, so it follows that, at least for now, they are perfectly acceptable. They are not spam.

Thank goodness you finally got around to expressing that because I'm sure no own would have ever guessed it based on your past posts.

Finally, with that knowledge, I will be able to log in to SL and run the software succesfully! How useful.

If it's annoying it's spam. You may well me technically correct, but my perception is my reality on this one. My threshold to annoyance is fairly high though. I don't find SL very spammy.

Onions in my food are annoying when I don't expect them, but that's not spam

The problem with the word "spam" is that it is automatically equated with "wrong", so someone saying that keyword stuffing is spam is understood to be saying that keyword stuffing is wrong. And that's wrong. The word is used for that purpose.

if it looks like spam, smells like spam and tastes like spam, chances are it is spam.

Agreed Phil, for example search engines have had different policies on paid links in the past. Some felt they had use but claimed to have other methods to determine if a paid link was useful or not whereas Google disagreed and had their own policy.

It is very much upto the people running the search engine to determine policy and what is and isn't allowed, that's the only way a search engine can work. Users then tailor their use of said engine around existing policy. There would be no point in someone tailoring their parcel for search using guidelines that don't apply here.

If LL change their rules on search, people need to adjust.

Exactly, Ciaran.


Toy:
The problem with that is that most people don't know what looks like spam, smells like spam and tastes like spam, and yet they judge it are being wrong. That's the whole point of my post. Example: most people have heard of keyword stuffing here, because of posts about it, but they don't know what it is, so they assume that any parcel description that is simply a list of keywords and phrases is keyword stuffing, and therefore spam/wrong, but they are mistaken.

Im sorry Phil but I just cant accept 90% of what you say... must be a mental block or something, in no way does this thread ask a question that can improve a persons enjoyment of SL, more like promoting one persons beliefs. So I see no more reason to post here, it adds nothing. kthxbi

I'd say that a discussion of search very much enhances the SL experience.

As you wish, Toy, though I don't see why you posted at all.

You're right in one thing - I didn't ask a question - but I agree with Ciaran's last post. I do think that discussing and debating things concerning SL, adds to the enjoyment of it.

If cooked just right, spam is not really that bad.




I'll add the question for you:

So, forumites, what are your thoughts on this topic?

`When _I_ use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.'

`The question is,' said Alice, `whether you CAN make words mean so many different things.'

`The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, `which is to be master - - that's all.'

I may be missing something here, but is this post about bots that pump out chat, often requiring us to click a menu on rezzing at a location in order to facilitate traffic figures? If so, I would definitely classify that as spam and even worse.


I'm not at all sure what you mean by this or at least I hope I don't read it correctly. My personal definition of spam would be that it is an unsolicited, automated and inappropriate communication and I don't think many would disagree with the general sentiment.

I wouldn't regard someone saying 'Hi, Ephraim' on the chat channel or even in IM to be guilty of spam because it's appropriate and even desirable to greet others. Someone merely saying 'Hi' is getting closer to spam because the greeting could easily be interpreted as a general 'catch-all' upon arrival in a gathering of several avatars or plain lazy if my av is the only other present.

In the same way, spam is just a lazy method of reaching the maximum number of readers with the minimum of effort and I would question why anyone needs a degree in rocket science to recognise an instance of spam for what it is, which is a thoughtless, albeit minor, inconvenience requiring us to 'weed out' the nonsense from our communications that generally accumulates into a big pain in the neck.

I for one appreciate Phil's post and did find it informative.

So adding to my knowledge base here, Phil - would you please expand on "html page manipulation".

(Not caring about the spam not spam issue- still trying to grasp a lot about searches and how they work. Don't have enough info yet to agree or disagree with anyone on the subject til I make my own judgments. )

To me spam is an unsolicited communication directed to me. If it is a land description, etc, in my mind it cant be spam because it wasnt not directed at me...i choose to go find it and open it and read it. Therefore things like picks, descriptions, etc that are passive are not spam to me. But if i land at a location and i am handed a lm, a notecard, etc....that to me is spam and drives me nutty.

I guess my own definition comes more from email type spam....if i get it and didnt want it, then its spam.

if a mall hosts clothing, furniture, bonzai trees and tattoos, then they should put in {clothing furniture bonzai tree tattoo} because that is what the mall is selling. it is keyword stuffing because they are stuffing key words that relate direclty to the mall's function - ie: they are relevent. if they want to repeat said words, that is also relevent, albeit unuseful because it doens't actually make them more searchable. inputting "clothing clothing clothing clothing clothing" does not make you more searchable. inputting "clothing, clothes, pants, shirts, skirts, shoes" does, however.

still, none of that is spam.

spam is the mall giving you 10 pop up blue boxes offering landmarks and notecards and all sorts of crap you don't want, every time you enter the building, or even just move to a new part of the building. THAT is spam.

if you have traffic, picks and html manipulation techniques going on at your mall, it makes your mall more relevent in a keyword search, but is not spamming. if you mention key words to make youself more searcahble, that is not spamming. it is using the system as SL has allowed.

if you force your notecards and landmarks on someone without their consent, then that is spamming.

i don't think i need google or anyone to tell me what spam is..all that is a play on trying to get people to accept it more..a search engine has nothing to do with spam..not unless i am getting popups from the search engine itself..
spam is adds and other things popping up when not searching for them..like when you are in your loft and your friends list gets abused by some dancer over and over promoting her club or someone bringing their adds to me..that is spam..

using key words and advertising something that is not at your place..that's false advertisement and nothing more..
just because they don't call it that doesn't mean it's not..

i just saw a movie the other night..a true story called The butcher of plainfield..
his friend said to him..when are we gonna stop robbing these graves for these body parts??
It has to be breaking a law..

the butcher of plaifield said..You know we looked and there aint no law on the books for borrowing body parts..so we are not breakin the law..

butter it how you like but the absolute FACT is it is still gaming the system if you use keywords for things not at your site..

Agreed with all the stated info re KW stuffing- not spam - agreed to if u have it is not deceitful- to include say, 'FREE SEX' in a mall that does not offer it is deceitful and false advertising,etc- not spam -but i personally dont care about what anyone calls it. I am still curious though on "html manipulation techniques" - definition please?

i'd call that false advertising. not spam or gaming. it's straight up lying.

this brings up something that has been on my mind about here and xstreet..
i wonder if one day they will use the same guidelines in sl as they do for posting an add on xstreet..if they ever did wow would things change in here huh? lol

that was my point..a search engine has nothing to do with spam so really how can they claim to tell me what spam is..it's not their area..

I agree!


Spam is spam.

Keyword stuffing is keyword stuffing.

Html page manipulation is just that: page manipulation.

Paying for picks is paying for picks.

And word of mouth advertising is word of mouth advertising.


It's kinda like sesame street, though... *bursts into song* ~ "One of these things is not like the others, one of these things is not the same!"

* * * * *

Phil, if you gotta come out and tell people that this stuff is okay, then... that says a lot! Not that it matters much to me.

I do have 3 million square meters of land, tens of thousands of infrastructure prims I could name anything, and could easily make 10,000 parcels for 'acceptable' (by your definition) traffic manipulation methods. Not my style, but say I decided to use those resources promoting a low prim furniture biz ~ would you cry foul if I did that? (Could I try it for a week just for laughs?)

By definition though, saying "anything that's ok with the search engine is okay" also includes exploits. A service provider won't be able to stamp out every last exploit from the beginning... it's dangerous ethical ground.

I wish you every success, and don't think we need to kill marketing either, but just saying that *if you are right* you are creating an arms race that will ultimately backfire upon those who stand by such methods.

low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture low prim furniture

That is my view. If I go looking for it or even something very much related, then the info being shown is not spam in my mind.

I sooooooo hate being offered notecards and LMs when landing somewhere or walking thru the door of a store. That IS spam in my mind. Even if I am in your store, I do not need extra info tossed at me -- put out signs and let me request the info if I want to.

Hahaha, I just noticed that if you search All for furniture one of my renters in Guksu appears much higher than Phil and that same renter is beating him in the Places search with a different parcel in Nieun.

The best part about it all, they don't even sell furniture - it's a sex club.

and that would be why using broad terms as your main key words is not effective lol....i never search for "shoes" or "furniture" i search for "red high heeled sandals" or "brown leather couch" and most people do this as well in all search. remember...we are a community of web savvy folks who use google search all the time....so when we search in sl we tend to do the same thing we do when trying to find a 10" cast iron fry pan on the internet...we dont dont search for "pan"