Silver Threads and Iron Chains

If slavery is so reviled in teh real world, why is it so attractive to many people here?

I own a "concubine manacle" in the real world; a silver bracelet modelled on teh "cuff" that a "favourite" slave-concubine would wear. It's very very old - 17th century? I wear it sometimes and think much upon its message and its purpose as a metaphor. I come from slaves. Many of us do.

Let's avoid war-chants against the Gor and concentrate more upon teh ethical dilemmas and teh moral questions. Do you have an opinion on the slave trade, the cult of slavery, teh sexuality (for some) and the context of slavery in sl?

/me pops a beer open, puts his feet up and gets come chips..

This should be fun..

.d

I hope so

Please share.

Some of them are still chasing comments I made elsewhere. They'll pick up this "scent" on the breeze soon enough.

For men, I think it's often about compensating for being perceived as "less of a man" in RL. No, I don't mean because of "size" or lack thereof necessarily, but because our culture puts unrealistic expectations on men to be "masculine" in a narrow, restricted way. A healthy response to this is to say to hell with that, I'm going to be MYSELF, and any woman worth being with will accept me as I am. However, too many men have been brainwashed by society, and therefore struggle to be what they can never be. It turns them into arrogant, self-centered jerks who think that participating in sexist RP is OK. They demean women because it makes them feel powerful.

For women, I think that many, sadly, are survivors of sexual abuse and have never gotten the help they need to learn how to have a healthy relationship. For them, being abused and oppressed is a sign of being loved.

I do think that healthy individuals can participate in BDSM groups without it being a sign of psychological problems, so long as sexism does not affect their choice of being dominant or submissive, and no value judgment is assigned to people whose preferences don't conform to traditional gender roles. However, RP societies that enslave based on gender *cough*Gor*cough* are deeply disturbing to me, as IMO they reinforce stereotypes and cause psychological harm to those involved in them.

I brought the nachos:



Pass some popcorn this way please.

What about men pretending to be furry women slaves who wear bling and facelights?

/me wanted to work the Open Sim issue in there somehow, but failed. Sorry!

Nachos! yummy! Thanks Lil... here's a bowl just for you.

It's attractive to so many people here because IT'S NOT REAL SLAVERY IN SL.

QFT


Slavery is as old as the world and still exists today in the Middle East and Africa. But we aren't supposed to mention that since it would be intolerant of some cultures.

*yawn*

My ancestors were slaves, they didn't have choice to consent but their some who
believe the Jewish people became slaves because they didn't follow God's commandments.
I don't know about that. I would like to think if their was omnipotent God he
or she would be whole lot more fair and loving then to imprison his or her children.
No loving parent would want to have their children traded for money forced to have sex with strangers,worked to death and used, seen little below farm animals.
But in SL or Real life if people choose to do that consensually and responsibly as extension of their sexuality it is none of my business.
Real Slavery is much different then fantasy slavery.
I would only be against it if first life humans are being traded for money,bought and sold forcefully against their will or consent who were kidnapped in first life and sold here.
In that case in would be crime.
Fantasy is different it isn't a crime and two people are consenting.

Dos the owner of teh slave perceive it as less fantasy and MORE real ownership, I wonder.

Jig when I was child I was forced into situations and bought and sold I didn't have
say in the manner.
As adult apart of my sexual exploration briefly was how would it feel to be in place of sexual
power i.e the dominate. And no one I ever was Master of I ever mistreated, forced to do anything they didn't want to, they could stop the situation any time, dictate how they wanted to be used. This was on my mind the whole time. Whatever they gave me came from
that place, it was choice, that came from freedom, not fear.
Experienced both ends of this consensually and no consent.
There is big difference at least for me.
Consensual Slaves have choice, freedom and are doing this for emotional or sexual excitement and fullfillment.
Forced slaves who never consented don't have choices and operate from fear, hope to survive through the event.
The owners are also coming from a different place too.
Line is similar but one that is operating as criminal and doesn't see the slave as human but property that can destroy if they choose to once the purpose of the slave is over.
Any caring, law abiding Master with even half a brain would know the difference between the fantasy and reality of doing whatever to slave, one would land them in jail, ruin his reputation, they know what lines not to cross because the consequences would be too high if they didn't.
And it would be seen as personal disgrace if Master was given the honor having a slave who is of age and legal able to consent, with full knowledge of what the relationship means and choose to freely give themselves to them then put them in hospital or worse.
They wouldn't get another willing partner to consent to them ever again if they were known to mistreat, kidnap and break real first life laws.

BDSM is not automatically slavery - for the sake of terminology. SadoMasochism is not necessarily slavery - let's not confuse the terms.

People choose to participate in BDSM circles for a variety of reasons which may not have anything to do with surviving sexual abuse. Some people enjoy the sensations - as Mr. Freud said, "sometimes a stick is only a stick."

SL slavery is even less then PRETEND RL slavery-

PRETEND RL slavery could be freedom. Freedom from responsibility to adhere to societal norms. A woman CHOOSES slavery for a variety of reasons, one of which commonly is the "permission" to participate and even actively enjoy sexual situations, the bawdier the better- with the justification she is "only a slave".

Since Gor was mentioned- in the Gor novels there was always an enmity between the Free women and the kajirae- Norman chose to illustrate that women - the FW- were really the ones in chains- not free to express their true nature, whereas the kajirae were comfortably female. Thus the whole Natural Order thing. RL kajirae are not generally oppressed- they chose their status as do those in SL- the difference being, in SL, they just turn off the 'puter.

(Not starting up a Gorean discussion, SL or RL- but I can only relate it to that which I know of. I have been an active participant in an RL Gorean discussion group - not cyber serves and RP- for the past four years.)


~~~~
There are real life horrors in history and in present about slavery- none of this discussion makes light of that- but the OP specifically asks about SL slavery. Personally I have but a minimal passing acquaintance with SL slavery - but have discussed at length RL "PRETEND" slavery with many people from various backgrounds.

A woman shouldn't need justification to be openly sexual and enjoy sex. Western culture looks down on women freely expressing our sexuality - but the solution is to be brave and do so, not be a "slave" so one can be "forced" to express it. There's no freedom, no growth as a human being in that.

The whole idea that a woman's "true nature" is to be submissive and sexual is disgusting and sexist. Some women are that, sure. Some are submissive but have little interest in sex. Some are dominant, and very sexual, etc. Most prefer equality in a relationship. There's no one way or right way for a woman to be! Gor allows only a narrow range of roles for women, and THAT's what's wrong with it.

Ok, I will bite.

As has been said in the forums countless times it is a safe, sane consensual power exchange.

The meaning of your bracelet Jig, is profound and entirely different, it is a symbol of victory over despair as opposed to a meaningful wish to be submissive in an escapist sense.

As an "Owner", I am profoundly delighted with what My "slave" allows Me to have of her, and I protect it like delicate crystal. It is a consensual power exchange she can terminate if she wishes because I only ever own what I am given.

Gor, is an rp world, where they rp things. If I am not mistaken, and I might be, Norman began writing the novels as a tongue in cheek counterpoint to the militant feminist movement in the 60's. A Gorean slave, is rp'ing, well, being a Gorean slave in Gor.

I could never, being "lifestyle" D/s equate any of it to a meaning that would not insult that bracelet you wear, because that bracelet means something else entirely, while using the same words. Slavery, in a D/s sense is very consensual, in Gorean terms, it is a matter of RP'ing an rpg.

I need a slave to get me some popcorn.

I always get a giggle out of the term "power exchange".
This would imply an equal, two-way handing off of power. I don't see it. Being dragged around on ones knees at the end of a chain isn't something I'd do to my dog (if I had one).

I guess some "slaves" insist that they get power in turn - like the dimwit who once simpered that she was naughty on purpose so that her master would punish her by putting her into a horse harness. Is it any wonder that slave/master public spectacles get pointed and laughed at?

Almost as chuckalicious as calling Norman's books "literature".

Yah, I'm intolerant

You better not do it to your dog. Your dog can't consent.

I've always thought of the "exchange" as in, one person gives the power to the other. There's no outward return of equal power, which I think you're expecting. (Yes yes, there's more going on than what's on the surface, but I don't think Brann would be interested.)



Maybe a teeny bit.

well put the kettle on and shutup


two sugars, plz

nothing wrong with BDSM.

somebody smash me in the face with an hammer, it makez my nipplez hard.

Well since you consent would you like the hammer red hot or ice cold?
LOL

just tepid today, thanks.