Anti - Anti Windlight Thread

Except they are. I see this sort of argument on ebay, why are ebay bothered about buyers, the sellers are ebay's customers. The sellers pay the fees, but without the buyers the sellers don't sell and then ebay don't get their fees. It's the same here, the premium members and land owners pay LL, but they largely do so because others pay them, you don't get one without the other and we all agree to the TOS, because we're all LL's customers.





I'm sorry but World of Warcraft does not have great graphics, this alone makes your argument null and void. You might want to check out how many people are playing World of Warcraft.





The Intel core 2 duo is a bloody good processor, it saw intel finally acknowledge the inroads AMD had been making. As for calling them dickheads, a lot of us wouldn't even be here if it weren't for Intel, they can't be that bad.



You're missing something glaringly obvious here, Second Life is not aimed at gamers, it's supposed to be the 3D internet, now stop and think for a minute, does the 2D internet only cater for those with expensive machines. Sure you can find better things to do with a better system but if it wasn't for those with low end machines utilising it, then a lot of companies would be out of business and it's the same here. You need to get the balance right, LL need to hold a though or two for those with lower end systems because like it or not, there are plenty of them and they have been using this platform, to cast them aside for bells and whistles would be churlish to say the least.

The ultimate eventual goal of Linden Lab is for the Average Internet User to *BE* the Average Second Life User.

lazy people don't spend most of their day SSSIIIIIITTTTTTIIIIINNNNNNGGGG in front of a computer. as of now i assume your fat, lazy and sweat butter when you have to walk up more then 3 steps. show me a video of you doing more then one push up and i'l reassess my opinion.

as for me i have a BBA in business admin, an MCSE and an Associates in computer science, fence, own my own home in Real Life, spend 2-3 hours in a gym training to become a metropolitan fire fighter and because of the current economy drive a taxi cab 12 hours a day 4 days a week. currently i can not afford to upgrade my system. the main reason i log on is to socialize and can care less about the graphics. i can prove every thing i just stated about myself.

but i guess because i find the interface of SL byzantine by your definition i am lazy.

F**K you, A** CLOWN

to every one else i apologize for the rant. i am just getting tired of "NO LIFERS" claiming every one who has a life and obligations is some how lacking.

I wouldn't hold your breath on that. Even with its quirks I think SL's avatars still compare pretty favorably to other games, and blow the pants off of SL's most direct competitors like There. And those games that have much better looking humans (using high poly meshes, normal mapping, shaders, and other modern trickery) wouldn't run on anyone's system who can't run WindLight either.

Well Windlight is a nearly a given now it seems.. or will be soon .. so may as well fix the mesh.

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The ugly angles and shadow areas around the nose are always going to inspire many to want face lights.

And many people ask me if they can fix the dent in between their breasts until shown that it goes away when light shines directly on them.

Just an aside: I actually still have my old Commodore 64. It's still working. It's 25 years old.
It might not be mint condition (I rescued the old keyboard and put it in the newer model because I liked the colour combo...HEY, I was 12 and it was the 80s, I thought the brown was cool).


Windows Me? More like Windows MEH! Had that too, hated it. Went from 98 straight to XP on my work PC.

And concerning what I said about people not testing stuf-I never said EVERYONE who has complaints never tested a WL/RC viewer. Besides some people also don't want to or can't invest time in fiddling with all the sliders. That's why the default preset was changed over time due to comments from testers.

Almost all my skins are Sin Skins and I like the way they look in Windlight. If they didn't, I could always switch off atmospheric shaders and get a more basic look. My 3 1/2 year old laptop with 512 MB RAM and an ATI 9700 card runs the viewer with ok FPS if I deactivate the fancy stuff. Just for the occasional pic I can bear with 3 FPS with WL activated.

My 2 1/2 year old trusty Dell desktop with 2 gig RAM and an ATI X600 does 15 FPS with the fancy stuff such as sky and water enabled. For me that's perfectly alright.

Sorry, but apparently you didn't get to do Social Interacting 101 at university.

LMFAO, an MCSE is a complete and utter joke. I fell out with Microsoft years ago over this shit, ooh you know what F8 can do!

I must be the only person in the World who didn't hate WindowsME. It was in the first machine I bought for myself, and worked fine. I used it for 5 years before getting an XP machine.

I have only SinSkins and they looked OK when I tried Windlight as well. i just can't take the performance hit necessary to run it. I getter a better picture with the Nicholaz BE-v than with the WL viewer turned down, so I'm staying with Nick.

This has to be the best posting in this entire forum. Now, if only the people at Lagging Lab read and get it. (Hey, I can dream, can't I?)

That's one thing that's kinda cool about SL: when a newer resident boasts RL bona fides, one can be pretty sure that the tiny dragon in the corner smiling shyly is, like, the guy who taught LISP to Stallman.

At the risk of sounding slightly self-serving (I'm not trying to), I'd suggest skins with *less* shading under Windlight, but better surface details. For example, yes, Robin Sojourner's Yummy Skins look really good under WL, because you don't have too much fighting between the shading of the skin an the shading of the viewer. I suspect the same is true of some other skin makers, too.

Mari

You got shadows? I didn't think we had shadows yet?

I agree.

You don't design something horridly complicated and out of reach for most people, then expect it to become the most popular thing ever.

And you don't say, "Well, we don't mind losing all these customers, because they are lazy anyhow."

To oversimplify it, if I'm buying a vacuum cleaner, I would like to be able to run it without having to take it apart and rebuild it myself first, or read through a thousand-page manual. Vacuum cleaners just don't mean THAT MUCH to me.

Now, would that mean I'm lazy? If so, fine! But I will buy a different vacuum cleaner.

If SL is supposed to be some sort of "platform" - with no inherent meaning or purpose in itself except as a place where people do other things - then that's all the more reason not to make it real complicated.

I mean, this is pretty simple. You design something terribly complicated and too expensive for most people to run, and then say, "Well, that's okay, cause all those people who won't do it are just too lazy and/or too dumb anyway."

I mean, you CAN say that, but you will also have far fewer customers.

Which is okay, if that's what you want.

coco

LoL this remnds me of having to do backups for dad on his old home business CP/M machine.
"Please put Source disk in drive A and Destination disk in Drive B and press enter"
Next day, all his data would either be gone of he's looking at 2 month old figures because he copied a blank disk or last months backup onto his months work.
Hence then he developed the aversion to doing backups for 6 months and I had use dos to piece together a 6month old backup with his newer files somehow when he did the same thing again.

Most people don't pay to play SL, many are here just to make money.

Hmm they did darn good job though of using the graphics they have.
But then again graphics are only part of it, compare the lag & physics of SL to WoW for example. On most games a 56k modem you can have complete control of a flying horse using an analogue joystick. In SL you can't walk across a sim boundry without dissappearing through the ground and overshooting 100m.

I guess anyone SITTING infront of a computer programming or doing accounting for 14 hours is also lazy whether they are fat or not?
And nice gutter language there, it really helps your image, I now assume you are a shirtless, shoeless, unshowered yobbo who lives in a caravan with a stack of paper plates & pizza cartons in the sink.

I guess the flip side is why shouldn't SL be accessable to everyone with a 386 and diallup?
Or why in 5 years time should we be still continuing to use Havok 1, LSL, pre-windlight graphics and 2003 avatar meshing?

Things progress; I'm investing in a new graphics card in hopes of solving my problem with the new grid demands. Anybody on the Internet needs to walk a fine line between being up-to-date and being accessible. We just have to hope LL gets it right for what they are doing - or at least, not too wrong.

In the meantime, let people vent when they find themselves suddenly outdated; it'll make them feel a little better.

You'll always have a minority that's (far) behind and a minority that's (far) ahead... in 5 years time the curve will have moved ahead so there's no need to keep things as they are now.

Non-atmospheric WindLight by itself is slower already although probably not in a way that is entirely unreasonable. Atmospheric shaders on the other hand clearly are, and I'd say they have to be unbelievably bloated to justify a drop from 15fps to 1.2fps just to paint some cloud swirls on a gradient sky.

I've also seen friends play 3D games years ago that looked better than SL does now, and they got a better performance then then I get out of SL now. Something is horribly wrong with that picture. And yes, I can name several reasons why SL's nature means that it will always be slower than a finely tuned professionally created 3D scene, but I'm sure there *are* ways to bridge the gap.

Also, Havok and scripting have no effect on the viewer since they're both sim components.

I meant the shadow and light on my skin that reveal the triangles of the mesh.

I think you're right, Mari. From my observations so far (limited as they are) it seems my paler skins, whose details would be hard to see except in certain lighting conditions in the old viewer, benefit from the added shading in Windlight, while more aggressively shaded skins tend to suffer a bit. Pretty much though, after a lot of complaining about the earlier WL builds, the adjustments they've made to the default WL settings don't really seem all that much different than what I was used to, and I haven't noticed any skins that I think look bad in WL. They just look a bit different to what we're all used to. I think people who are now claiming that their skin looks horrible in Windlight are overstating the case rather hugely, simply because it's not what they're used to seeing.

Is this the thread where I get to say I like Windlight?

If you do, cover yourself with bubble wrap first. It'll soften the blows .