Increase stipend for EU users?

There are too many companies to do that. With gambling, there aren't a huge number of companies in business. Only 5 or 6 offer poker to US residents, and I don't know how many offer other forms of gambling, but it's not a massive number. Even with that, banks are screaming bloody murder about having to enforce the rules. CC companies are already blocking thse sites to a large extent, and I can neithr confirm nor deny that it is still easy to move money on and off poker sites - just not as easy as it was. It's just not enforceable.

Also, the US has claimed jurisdiction over foreign companies offering gambling to Americans. The founders of PayPal were recently arrested as they changed planes in the US, as one of the founders of BetOnSports. The US subpoenaed the records of a Scottish bank to get info on a Gibralter company, PartyPoker - a company which was the first to leave the US market, only days after the UIGEA was put to vote and before it was signed into law. The bank cried foul, then got very quiet, which says to me it made a stink for the sake of publicity, then handed over the documents. BoDog founder Calvin Ayre won't set foot in the US because the second he does the justice department will nab him.

On the internet, the prevailing legal position is that your activities take place in two places at once. The jurisdiction where you are and the location of the servers or service provider. Potentially three locations. Hell, with poker, potentially the locations of everyone at the table with you, since you are playing against them, not the house. It's an absolute cluster.

Which would make any claims that you can use your card all over the world pretty meaningless. Simply not going to happen, too much at stake.

On the flip side, a business would be stupid to risk losing the second largest market in terms of disposable income.

Mind you, we are talking solely about *online* gambling sites. CCs probably don't give a flying fig about them. You can still go to Vegas, Atlantic City, or any rl casino and still spend to your heart's content.

There would be an offshore credit card explosion. It's not illegal to have one, and plenty of reputable financial institutions provide them.

I don't have to go that far. There's a Bookies about 1 mile away from where I live.

The British Gambling Commission (Government body) estimates there are approx. 3.5 million people regularly using online gambling sites in the UK, which represents a six-fold increase in just five years. Extrapolate that figure across the EU .. and I bet the CC companies would take quite a hit if it was banned.

Yes, but the US retains jurisdiction over the worldwide activities of companies based in the US, as do many countries with respect to their own domestic companies. Hence things like the foreign corrupt practices act, which by definition applies mostly to offshore acts by US based entities.

I posted once a nice long explanation about taxes (which I think was missed in the fray), but I'm going to state again, that many of you are uninformed about which you speak as fact.

If you honestly believe that there are no international laws, I suggest taking a refresher course in the international governments in place (mainly the UN). There are international policies that countries must adhere to, to continue to keep other policies in place. It's called politics. Violations between countries (including non-enforcement of international laws, or laws across borders) is dealt with by the ICJ (International Court of Justice).

If a country pledges, or promises adherence to one policy, then decides not to do it, it can come under heavy impositions from the UN, including stopping all imports, exports, etc. Aid, support, funding, even fines. It can seriously cripple the economics just for not adhering to one policy. This includes foreign tax (Americans call it duty, not sure what others call it). There's a specific branch that actually deals with economics of UN participants as well. ETA: We DO pay taxes on imported items, they are added into the final cost of whatever we buy. All imports are subject to that duty. This is why duty free shopping at ports is so huge. Military members don't pay duty on most products either. We have to pay international tax based on the country it was imported from. Just because the price isn't broken down on the tag, doesn't mean it's not there.

The biggest argument is that we don't live in the same country and therefore shouldn't be held to standards of another country. That argument doesn't hold water simply because there are enforcements in place with all participating countries with the UN. If you want irony, there are American taxes going to prosecuting foreign and domestic violators of our laws and yours (whatever country yours is). European countries tax dollars are going for the same thing, to find and prosecute foreign AND domestic violators of international law. There are teams of lawyers employed both our government and yours that go after people who skirt the law.

Why do you think there are extraditions from other countries? Simply put, because it's a policy in place through international agreements. If our laws don't apply to people on other soil, then extraditions would be impossible.

Again I must reiterate that most of you don't realize that you are NOT paying what Americans pay for American services. Typically companies that you think are "tax-free" are charging you a different price (even in conversion) than what we would pay.

Americans don't pay taxes to LL because of our own country tax laws, which do not require charging tax over state lines. If you want a detailed explanation, go back a page in this thread to my other response.

OMG another Mitch Hedberg fan! You can have Sex, Pie, or Panties now, your choice.

piffle

No penguin?

Gotta give them something to strive for.

Europeans are over 60 percent all Second Life inhabitants,
If these Second Life leave, the Economy Crash is projected.
A working economy in the Second Life can be built only when the prerequisites for all same are.
It is not they U.S. Americans, who cofinance the servers, on which the U.S. Americaner the Second Life business drives.
But, what prevents lindens Labs from it, its proper land-mass Tax, to calculate dollars in lindens, instead of in US$. The lindens $ then must obtained or are bought.
Only so, a Changen equality can be guaranteed for all.

Not going to happen. Some may leave, more will downgrade, most will remain as-is. It's more than ambitious to expect more than a few percent to leave, never mind the whole lot.

Sales tax in every country is different. Why would the Second Life economy be unworkable with different tax rates, when that's exactly how the global economy works?

I have no idea what is being said here. If somebody can assist, many thanks.

I think he's asking if he can pay tier in Lindens rather than USD. If that were the case, wouldn't the tier payments be non-VATable?

I bet that could easily be considered evasion.

"Hey people, instead of paying 17.5% tax on your tier, buy these tax free tokens instead and pay with those!"

You might say all $L sales are between players, but I'm under the impression Supply Linden has dumped loads on the Lindex from time to time to help keep the currency stable.

Yes I think that's right.

If LL changed it so that *all* tier payments by everyone were in Lindens, this could in theory avoid VAT, but I guess it would depend on where all those Lindens would be coming from. In that scenario, don't think there would be enough player/player Linden transactions to fund the demand, and hence it would likely be, in effect, people buying Lindens from LL, rather than LL acting as a broker for player/player transactions -- and *that* would clearly be evasion.

I'm not sure I'm reading this right and I don't profess to know the first thing about finance but I think with the single point of money/linden$ exchange, would it matter if I paid my tier in money directly or from lindens I buy from Brighton anyway? Surely it'll still be liable to tax.

I haven't bought on the Lindex for months, get mine on SLX. Now SLX is arguably providing information services to EU residents and therefore should be charging VAT, but soince they don't seem to be actually in the EU it's unenforceable.

Well on the Lindex you technically are not buying/selling to/from LL. LL is acting as a broker for transactions between players. If LL were actually selling *you* Lindens to pay itself with, then yes I think that would be subject to VAT.

I prefer an infestation of Koala Bears.

Wouldn't it be nice if LL were to produce a document designed to explain the legal situation to the taxman?

Taxman: "I see a number of transactions on your credit card statements for US$ amounts paid to "Second Life". You're telling me that this Second Life is not the recipient for some of these transactions. Who do you claim to have paid? Are these payments VAT inclusive? What is their VAT registration number? Where are the recipients resident? "

And where do you get that Europeans are 60 percent of SL? I'd like some proof please. The last report still showed largely American. You are saying that all of America, along with the other continents out there only make up 40%? I'd really like to know who that source of that info was. As I said, the last public figures still showed Americans as the largest country population, which still outpaced ALL of Europe.

Every time there is a change, no matter how big or small - someone always says the Chicken Little effect. Without OUR money, YOU'LL fail... I've been here for quite some time. I've seen at least 50 events someone claimed this, yet we are still here. From open enrollment, to verification, to mature verification, to billing changes, to gambling gone, to lower stipends, to increased tier and island fees, to age play, to well... anything you can think of that they changed in 2 years.

BTW, even if your assertion that 60% of players are Europeans were true, you have no financial data to back that up. For all you know, Americans outspend Europeans 10 to 1. So losing 1 person who spends 10 bucks a month isn't as big of a deal as someone who spends 1K a month.

Let's say, using total figures that 60 Europeans spend 10 USD a month while only 40 misc. spend 1k. Would you rather lose 60 bucks for 40,000?

No because they are acting as a 3rd party (assumably operating) outside of the EU, and selling second hand goods. They are acting as a transfer middle man rather than a direct seller. Same with the Lindex. Though why someone would pay more to buy Lindens, I never did understand. :/

That's why I said "arguably". But SLX does take a fee for the exchange, and are therefore charging for a service, which is VATable.

...Linden Labs should reimburse me, then, also, right? I am speaking of California State sales taxes, currently 8.9% in my area. And also for U.S. Federal Income Taxes, because non-U.S. citizens don't pay these taxes. And any other taxes that are accessed on transactions that involve Second Life, right? Everything should be balanced out, right? Linden Labs should rectify all the inequities of all government taxes in all the areas in which it does business. Because, of course, this is what all businesses do. Right?

Right?