Actually you made the first trolling statement.
You deny that the EU has liberty and freedom as good as anywhere else?
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Increase stipend for EU users? |
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Mat Warf
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10-02-2007 10:21
You deny that the EU has liberty and freedom as good as anywhere else? |
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Ciaran Laval
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10-02-2007 10:21
I'm have a company in say Italy. I have a new product that I have to sell, say at 100 Euros in order to make a profit to stay in business, but hey as the seller I have to pay the 20% VAT. Okay, I'll price my product at 120 Euros. So who is paying the VAT. The seller or the buyer? Seems to me that it is just a hidden sales tax and a sales tax by any other name or in any other form is still a sales tax, no matter how it is collected and paid. You're missing the value added part. Your VAT bill will be the difference between the amount of tax you paid buying the parts for the product and the amount of tax you collected when you sold it. If you pay more tax than you collect, you'll be due a refund, you'll also probably be filing for bankruptcy but that's a different issue  |
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Victorria Paine
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10-02-2007 10:24
You deny that the EU has liberty and freedom as good as anywhere else? It's a fruitless discussion because it is a fundamental philosophical difference in mindset. From the US perspective, the EU's morass of taxes and regulations can seem to some/many US persons to be substantially less economically free than the US, just to take one example that is more relevant to this discussion. There are many others, but as I say it is a difference in mindset. |
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Brenda Connolly
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10-02-2007 10:27
C'mon guys. There's a perfectly good LandBot thread that is being ignored. Let's stop this nonsense.
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Colette Meiji
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10-02-2007 10:30
You deny that the EU has liberty and freedom as good as anywhere else? No I dont however that wasnt your first Trolling statement. I've decided there isn't any point arguing, as they seem to believe their quaint customs are the laws of the universe. This was. |
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Larrie Lane
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10-02-2007 10:33
VAT is a tax on the seller, not the end user here, it isn't US sales tax, and the reason our prices always include it and yours have it added at point of sale. I could be wrong, but in the US it is done in a way that the VAT is collected from the buyer. ... snip Let me see if I understand this, being an ignorant American. I'm have a company in say Italy. I have a new product that I have to sell, say at 100 Euros in order to make a profit to stay in business, but hey as the seller I have to pay the 20% VAT. Okay, I'll price my product at 120 Euros. So who is paying the VAT. The seller or the buyer? Seems to me that it is just a hidden sales tax and a sales tax by any other name or in any other form is still a sales tax, no matter how it is collected and paid. If a business or individual in Europe, (UK anyway) is registered for VAT they show a net price £100.00 plus VAT @17.5% = £17.50 and the total Price is £117.50. The end user has to pay this total sum and basically swallow the VAT. The Seller can then offset his VAT against VAT on purchases that they have made as they are registered for VAT. Its called "Input"-"Output". So all us Europeans have to pay the VAT on all purchases to LL so that varies from Country to Country in terms of percent. It is not a hidden sales tax, it is something us Euro's have been accustomed to for some years. Thats why SL states if you have a registered VAT number the user will be exempt from paying the VAT. But back to the post, there should be no preferential treatment for any Europeans just because we have to pay VAT. It sucks, so what, lets just get on with SL and enjoy. And lets be honest, apart from landowners who own Islands or significant amounts of land, the average user is not really go to see so much of an increase. The only time this will really hurt is when the Dollar strengthens against EU currencies. So if you don't like it, I am sure there's other things to do apart from SL and if there's not, then put up or shut up. |
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Bradley Bracken
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10-02-2007 10:33
No I dont however that wasnt your first Trolling statement. This was. Colette is it better to be right or to be happy? I don't think it matters who said it first. A statement was made and too many people fell into the trap. No innocent victims here in my opinion. We can't even seem to get along here. Is it any wonder wars never cease to exist? |
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Mat Warf
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10-02-2007 10:34
No I dont however that wasnt your first Trolling statement. This was. Different cultures perceive the same tax in different ways yet they insist their customs should apply to everybody. Personally I prefer to have my taxes out in the open, as opposed to the US stealth taxes where you don't find out what you're really paying till later on. |
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Denise Bonetto
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10-02-2007 10:34
It's a fruitless discussion because it is a fundamental philosophical difference in mindset. From the US perspective, the EU's morass of taxes and regulations can seem to some/many US persons to be substantially less economically free than the US, just to take one example that is more relevant to this discussion. There are many others, but as I say it is a difference in mindset. There will always be counter arguments and disagreements. Is it really being free for an American to not be able to get medical help and medicine when they are ill because they can't afford it? I have spoken to countless that need help and it isn't available. Yes we are used to subsidising each other, it can sound annoying if you are doing really well, but nobody knows what will happen to them in the future and personally I prefer the safety net should the tide turn. _____________________
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Ciaran Laval
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10-02-2007 10:39
One thing that is being overlooked in the "subsidy" argument is that LL will collect more VAT than they pay the taxman now that they have an office in Europe.
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Denise Bonetto
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10-02-2007 10:41
One thing that is being overlooked in the "subsidy" argument is that LL will collect more VAT than they pay the taxman now that they have an office in Europe. I have mentioned that, if they are doing tax returns, they will also be offsetting quite a large chunk of it so wont be paying the governments all that is collected from us. _____________________
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Chris Norse
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10-02-2007 10:42
There will always be counter arguments and disagreements. Is it really being free for an American to not be able to get medical help and medicine when they are ill because they can't afford it? I have spoken to countless that need help and it isn't available. Yes we are used to subsidising each other, it can sound annoying if you are doing really well, but nobody knows what will happen to them in the future and personally I prefer the safety net should the tide turn. In my town of 26,000, there are 2 free clinics. Also the two hospitals are ran by religious groups. Both of them will write off the bills of those who have income below a certain level. I have talked to countless Euros who have been told to wait 6,8, or 12 months for a medical procedure that I can have done the same day. _____________________
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Colette Meiji
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10-02-2007 10:42
Different cultures perceive the same tax in different ways yet they insist their customs should apply to everybody. Personally I prefer to have my taxes out in the open, as opposed to the US stealth taxes where you don't find out what you're really paying till later on. I dont thing were so much insisting our customs shoudl apply - Were just insisting we dont pay the VAT becuase its not our Tax. If it makes mroe sense for LL to just come up with a "Price for Europeans" and you feel better bout that - fine. But it doesnt change the fact that the prices for Europeans should be higher to pay for their higher tax. |
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Colette Meiji
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10-02-2007 10:43
One thing that is being overlooked in the "subsidy" argument is that LL will collect more VAT than they pay the taxman now that they have an office in Europe. How does that work? |
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Denise Bonetto
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10-02-2007 10:44
In my town of 26,000, there are 2 free clinics. Also the two hospitals are ran by religious groups. Both of them will write off the bills of those who have income below a certain level. I have talked to countless Euros who have been told to wait 6,8, or 12 months for a medical procedure that I can have done the same day. So why all the attacks on these threads about us getting free healthcare with the extra money we are paying? _____________________
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Ciaran Laval
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10-02-2007 10:45
I have mentioned that, if they are doing tax returns, they will also be offsetting quite a large chunk of it so wont be paying the governments all that is collected from us. So we're subsidising the Americans then!! |
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Brenda Connolly
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10-02-2007 10:45
The lack of healthcare for many here is a concern. While personally, I wouldn't want the Government managing my healthcare for me, I've been to the DMV and Post Office, the thought of those people in white coats and stethescopes is frightening. I believe this is something best left to private concerns. Anyone here who may be having difficulty in getting medicine should investigate PAP, the Patient Assistance Program, that the Pharmaceuticals have instituted. I've seen it work first hand on a few occasions, and while far from the total solution, it is a good start in that direction. Otherwise this discussion will just continue to go in circles as opinions differ based on experience, no one is more right than the other.
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Mat Warf
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10-02-2007 10:50
So we're subsidising the Americans then!! Comes as little suprise to me. Anyway, given the amount of bugs and stuff, I've been subsidising LL for a long long time. It's time I stopped being a charity to them. |
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Victorria Paine
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10-02-2007 10:52
How does that work? Because they won't have enough of their own "paid" VAT to offset the VAT they are collecting probably. |
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Nibb Tardis
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10-02-2007 10:53
Let me see if I understand this, being an ignorant American. I'm have a company in say Italy. I have a new product that I have to sell, say at 100 Euros in order to make a profit to stay in business, but hey as the seller I have to pay the 20% VAT. Okay, I'll price my product at 120 Euros. So who is paying the VAT. The seller or the buyer? That's not how modern business works. If you have to sell your product 100€, you do a market study to find out how much people are ready to pay for your product. You find out your fellow europeans will gladly pay 120€, americans would pay the US$ equivalent of 110€, japanese would pay 90€ and the chinese would only pay 50€. - In Europe, you start selling the product for 120€ throughout Europe regardless of the various VAT rates, you figure out how much to pay back in taxes and you keep the rest. - In the US, ou sell the product for 110€ and enjoy an extra 10€ markup - In Japan, it might make sense to sell the product with less profit, just for to gain market presence. You are subsidizing your Japanese market to increase your user base. - In China, well, you don't sell because it wouldn't be profitable. |
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Colette Meiji
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10-02-2007 10:56
So why all the attacks on these threads about us getting free healthcare with the extra money we are paying? Well im guessing its fine European countires spending their money on Healthcare its when they want to use other people's money its an issue. BTW i dont understand how LL will collect more VAT than it gives the various governments. I would be opposed to that they should collect exactly the same amount to cover the VAT in as they pay out. |
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Larrie Lane
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10-02-2007 10:57
That's not how modern business works. If you have to sell your product 100€, you do a market study to find out how much people are ready to pay for your product. You find out your fellow europeans will gladly pay 120€, americans would pay the US$ equivalent of 110€, japanese would pay 90€ and the chinese would only pay 50€. - In Europe, you start selling the product for 120€ throughout Europe regardless of the various VAT rates, you figure out how much to pay back in taxes and you keep the rest. - In the US, ou sell the product for 110€ and enjoy an extra 10€ markup - In Japan, it might make sense to sell the product with less profit, just for to gain market presence. You are subsidizing your Japanese market to increase your user base. - In China, well, you don't sell because it wouldn't be profitable. Ay, that has absolutely nothing to do with the question you quoted. LOL |
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Ciaran Laval
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10-02-2007 10:58
How does that work? LL's VAT bill will be the difference between the amount of tax they themselves spend buying goods for their business and the amount of tax they collect. So if they spend £100,000 tax on buying supplies and collect £1,000,000 in VAT then their bill will be £900,000. |
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Nibb Tardis
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10-02-2007 10:59
And lets be honest, apart from landowners who own Islands or significant amounts of land, the average user is not really go to see so much of an increase. Unfortunately, these are the people who are providing the largest part of LL's revenue right now. If a sizeable percentage of EU land and island owners start dropping the ball, it's bad for LL's finances. |
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Victorria Paine
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Join date: 13 Jul 2007
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10-02-2007 11:00
BTW i dont understand how LL will collect more VAT than it gives the various governments. I would be opposed to that they should collect exactly the same amount to cover the VAT in as they pay out. Actually the way it works is that you collect VAT on your own sales and pay VAT on things you buy -- and you remit the "net" amount to the government. SO if you don't buy a lot in the EU, you don't have much to "offset" the amount you collect and hence have to remit most of it to the government. |