where can I find pick camping places ?

but... in my opinion, picks camping is not dishonest

however you do not see me stating that it is a fact that picks camping is not dishonest, or insulting you and calling you negative names because you believe it is dishonest

therein lies the problem, you have taken it to the personal side with attacks on those who pay for picks

as for my quote of yours and the fact you state everything like it is a fact, has nothing to do with phil, you have been doing that very thing throughout this thread

others have stated that theirs is an opinion and made a point to state it is their opinion, however even after it has been pointed out to you, that an opinion is neither right nor wrong, you still attempt to belittle your fellow posters and degrade those who pay for picks....

what does that tell you about you?

(I still think you LOVE being the center of all of this, if you didn't you would have dropped it by now, as you have made your point over and over again)

no one is arguing with you that you have an opinion that paid picks is dishonest, the argument is that you are stating it as though it is fact, when.. neither side is a fact, both sides are opinions

once you are able to accept that others can form their own opinions and that those opinions will not always be the same as yours, the sooner this thread can end

The sign is the inducement Sling, it's a "Please link me" Google aren't keen on that sort of link building either. Natural linking is someone going to a place without someone asking for them to put a place in picks. Say if they place the parcel because it has a lucky chair? Camping? Is that still ok with you?



This is not common sense at all, your focus is too narrow. Say if someone loves a parcel and sees paid picks and sees that as a bonus.

You've got blinkers on Sling, you need to look at the bigger picture.

And that is just how it works in real life. The perpetual challenge in SL is marketing and no amount of egalitarian quirks in the system is going to change that. A small shop with almost no inventory is (rightfully) penalized and has to do more work to gain visibility. Randomizing the results so that such a shop has a chance is both good and bad - good for the shop owner on the random chance that it comes up on page 1, but not necessarily good for shoppers if the shop is marginally relevant or not at all. That said, the problem generally does go away in time if the sales do not justify the cost - either by elimination of the practice or elimination of the business, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

I don't actually believe that. The problem is that, as anyone can observe in Rl, marketing - if not kept in check - eventually kills free enterprise, especially in an environment with no idea of "locality".



Why is that "rightful"? The one item they have might be the next Mystitool.

Your perceptions of what is going on are very selective.
You criticised my post, apparently unaware that what you were criticising was in fact the way Phil has repeatedly put things.

You also misunderstand something else.
The "cheating/dishonest" is not some fallback response to what others post.
It is my opening position even before others post.
It is absolutely not some sort of bad tempered reaction to a post. It is my opening positition. Read my first post in this thread. It was the first in the thread to mention the eticality of picks buying question.



"I still think you LOVE being the center of all of this, if you didn't you would have dropped it by now, as you have made your point over and over again)"
Eh... and others have not made their point over and over again? and have not dropped it, So by your reasoning they must also LOVE ......


"once you are able to accept that others can form their own opinions and that those opinions will not always be the same as yours, the sooner this thread can end"

You appear to be saying that this thread can end as soon as I stop posting my opinions.
I don't understand why that should be so. I'm just another resident posting in the forums. The life of this thread or any other thread is not controlled by my posting or not posting.

try it, and see....

I have a feeling if you stop responding, the thread would slide away

and yes I know that my comments cover a lot of people, however you are the only one I see that is trying to convince others that your opinion is the only "right" one

the others are simply trying to explain to you, that your opinion is nothing more than that... an opinion

I have yet to see anyone (other than you Sling) here state that their opinion is a fact, and not an opinion
(Sling you do state your opinion as though it is a fact and not an opinion, but you do not see it that way, so be it)

I do believe that you are absolutely correct in that statement.


Think about that, and what it means

Not really true Yumi, it does make things harder though. Nevertheless, it is what we have to deal with, marketing is a trade of its own and very important. In RL as well as in SL.

That last one is worth noticing. SL somehow IS RL. You cannot expect to stimulate an economy in a virtual world, without expecting it to follow the way things go in the real word. After all, it's all RL persons sterring those tiny little avatars.



It might as well be utter crap, no one will know.
But the funny thing is that small shops are not penalized at all. As I showed a handful of postings ago, B&B did not optimize for search. Probably they could not care less, they are found anyway on their name. So a small animator can rank #1 with just a bit of tweaking. Same goes for many other business.

Be careful Rha, you might be the next one fighting against windmills

Talking any sense into miss Trebuchet is like trying to piss a hole in a bulletproof window. And be careful, if you go on disagreeing with her too long, you might end up being insulted as well. She did show her real self in this thread. So it was good for something after all.

I disagree - there is plenty of free enterprise, and we have not observed its demise.

As for "rightful" it is not normative, really, but used in the sense that that is the natural order of things. People starting out small have to pay their dues before they get bigger, unless they come with more potential resources to begin with.

IRL it's started to happen, especially in creative fields - the well known problem where you have to surrender all your rights, and follow the demands, of a publisher because without one you can't sell. SL could easily go the same way, and certainly, some people become put off business by the need to get involved into the war.



There is no natural order on SL. Everything that happens is the result of a human's decision.

That hegemony is being turned on its head thanks to the Internet.


Oh come on, almost everything is the result of human decision. It doesn't change the fact that that is how it occurs in reality.

It was at one stage, but now the internet is going the same way, of consolidation onto a few scarce sites which are isolated data sets.



Yes, but here there is no reality, either. It could be made impossible for any resident to visit the same grid twice, making it impossible to get stuck on a brand. That can't happen in real life.

it was assumed you knew I meant the others, you were not included in that statement

I will correct my post to reflect as such so there are no misunderstandings

What few scarce sites? The Internet is full of information and it is being rapidly dispersed - look at the rise of blogging and the various amounts of blogs out there as independent sources of information.


Okay, this shows how ridiculous this argument is getting. We have gone from picks camping (which doesn't violate TOS) to the destruction of free markets and the prevention of access to grids.

If you have to resort to hyperbole to "win" you have already lost.

The bigger picture is actually what drives me. In the bigger picture, Pick buying becomes the new Traffic. In new Search, Picks have become what Traffic is in Places
Look at the OP in this thread *about Pick Camping* !!! She wasn't looking for anything other than a place that would buy her picks. Any effect of her bought picks would be meaningless in terms of ranking a place. Any suggestion that her picks reflected worth for the parcels would be completely misleading (or as some more accurately put it - dishonest)

The people who game traffic and picks can't see the big picture. They only see a tiny picture - their own self interest.


Go back to to the POV of the pick seller. 'Hey whatever! Who gives a monkey's for what they are selling? Free money! I'll take it and I'll tell all my friends to come and get the fere money.

In that environment your fan who is also taking advantage of the Pick buying is an exotic.

But how many of them are actually being read? And more over, how many of them are consolidated onto a small number of hosts?



Who said it would be prevention of access? The grid would simply appear different every time you visit SL. This wouldn't involve any destruction, it would simply be the same data being rendered a different way each time. That would just be how the SL universe worked. In the RL universe objects are constants but the SL one doesn't have to follow.

The recent "crunches" have proven that free markets are self-destructive. If we still have a free market why are we having to put the same crooked mortgage brokers back into effective-power, instead of switching to non-crooked competitors?

LOL every time I ting you cannot get more ridiculous you manage to take us one level higher. Thanks for the fun, almost makes up for the insults earlier.

Picks become the traffic of new Search. Where Search places is ranked by traffic, new search is ranked by Picks. Tell me, did you even ever check the weight that picks hold in new search all? The more you rattle the more you show your lack of knowledge about the subject. Picks are such a small part of the ranking that your compare makes no sense at all. Really, check your fact before you post...


Any effect of her bought picks would be meaningless in terms of ranking a place. Your words. So how exactly is picks camping damaging SL?


Probably we see the picture a way bigger then you do, that is why you make less and less sense. Picks are a very mall pat o a very big picture, et in your world they are the windmill to fight against. Talking bout big pictures huh...



Are you a good friend of the pick seller? Or do you now speak for people you do not know as well? Cute.

For all we know, the pic seller wanted to use the earnings to upload textures for an art gallery he is starting. Or for a texture shop. All possible. Just as possible, as spending it on whores. No one knows.

Traffic was a pure numbers game. There's far more to search all than picks. Picks are only one weighting factor, traffic is another. Region name, parcel name, parcel description all carry weight and goodness knows what else. Google give weight to how old a domain is apparently, maybe LL do the same and give extra weight to older parcels that haven't changed names.



Business generally does that Sling, it's not an evil thing to do. The knock on effect on the bigger picture can be evil but I just don't see it in paid picks. As I've said, if search doesn't return relevant results then we have a problem. I'm bothered about how search performs. If paid picks mean people aren't finding items or are looking for shoes and getting results for prefabs, then there's a problem.




Which can also be a factor in increased traffic via lucky chairs or camping. It can be a factor in going to a parcel for freebies. Are they bothered about the items on the parcel or the freebies? Who knows?

However does that person having a pick make search results less relevant for someone else utilising search? The answer would appear to be no.

Traffic in Places is where dishonest people cheat to get higher rankings.
Paid picks in All Search is where the same dishonesty cheats to get higher rankings.
That's the parallel - the dishonesty rather than the scale of it.

Really! Think before you post.

You, of course, immediately home on the only aspect that you can see in your tiny picture - the percentages. Your avaricious mentality can only conceive of the percentages that you can make. There is no place in your imagination for the real big picture, which is the corrosive effect of the culture of dishonesty that you foster.

I fully realise that I don't make sense to your and your kind because you only see your own self-interest, You can't conceive of a world view that is different to your own.
I completely understand why people use traffic bots and buy picks. They put their own interests before all else.

Why do you mention the use to which the pick seller might put the money? Is that meant to be some sort of justification for buying picks?
What the pick seller will do with the money is irrelevant.

Didn't you forget something there? Something like "imo"? They are just your opinion, aren't they? Or are you intending to pass these falsehoods off as facts, and then when you get caught out later, claim that they were just your opinions?

Some posts back I said the any suggestion of any pick not being "relevant" to the parcel that it linked to was totally ludicrous.
You probably missed that.

So of course a paid pick is not less "relevant" that a natural pick.
If you were to get a million paid picks for a parcel, they would all be "relevant".

However,
Paid picks should be ignored when it comes to ranking a parcel.
In the same way, traffic generated by bots should be ignored when it comes to ranking a parcel.

"Relevant" simply means that the link is appropriate to the parcel.
"Relevant" in no way implies any measure of worth.

Natural links carry a measure of worth/authority.
Paid links carry no such measure and have no place in a ranking algorithm.

Perhaps you would like to go back over your posts in this thread in other threads and edit in the "imo" or "in my opinion"?
After you've done that, come back to me.

Actually I do own a few MLP driven toys. A couple of them are excellent. A couple are mediocre. A couple are poorly implemented, laggy, and may toss you a couple of meters above whatever object the engine is placed in. The only problem with MLP is that the animations are all the same. A dozen shops, the animations never change, only the furniture. I've been a fan of Open Source for years and have no problem with that. But please, in the spirit of OSS, somebody do something to expand the animations that MLP offers and release those back into the wild. I'm assuming of course that if it's OSS it's under the GNU or GPL license?

MLP is the menu driven system. The content - the animations - are what sets each system apart. The animations are NOT open source. Some are licensed for free use, some are ripped off copies from animators. Do not confuse the animations with the scripting system. MLP does not offer any animation.