How much help to give new users

Congratulations littleme, on getting your mother to be internet friendly ... and good on your mum too. I started playing on computers the same time as some guy called bill gates was doing the same, so I have a fair background over a lot of development.

Learning is a fascinating topic, kids dont care about making mistakes, they just get better and faster, even with embedded faults sometimes ... whereas adults tend to want to do it right, so progress can be slower ...

I have been through the exercises in a quiet area bit already, my friend seems to have either forgotten what I taught her, or disregarded it.

I will mention the youtube videos, and orientation island via the library. She should be able to find both of those, her Law PhD must involve being able to search stuff ...

She doesn't know how to *walk*?! /me faints

If she is taking a PhD it gives new meaning to the phrase "permanent head damage" (sorry, couldn't resist)

Frankly, if she cannot even figure out how to walk, it just sounds to me as if she's not trying to learn at all. I really don't know what to say - I think LittleMe's suggestion sounds the best.

What kind of club has a clickable dance floor that allows disruption of the club? A dance floor that has some sort of script for anything but... dancing... seems a little odd, yes?

If clicking the dance floor disrupts the club, I got to find this place

Max

She was frozen by the host, because she was disrupting the residents, creating a permanent smoke cloud in the room. I am not sure if the particle loading would slow the sim, that is beyond my knowledge, but the dancers were not happy.

Re skipping OI, I had told her to do it, she decided herself she didnt want to. I can only assue it was lack of patience.

Edit - I had told her to ATTEND oi ... just read above and it is ambiguous

clicking the floor generates a smoke cloud
continuous clicking fogs out the whole room

People understandably get a tad pissed off? Some of the littler residents actually disappear

The fact that she is a PhD candidate could explain her denseness....

We often try to hard to help someone, give them breathing room. If they really need the help they will ask. If they dont pay attention after asking tell them.... I cant teach you if you dont listen. Be willing to help but dont be willing to be used

Lol, my son sent me in first. Not that either of us had any trouble figuring out how to get around. I was able to answer a few questions for him when he first came in. But he is the computer expert who still answers my occasional question.

Anyway back to Derek's problem.
It sounds to me as if maybe your friend doesn't really want the SL experience enough to do the minimal amount of learning needed to make it work. At this stage I would start referring her to the tutorials etc mentioned above and then tell her you have to go do something, see her later, until she learns what she needs to know. (Or gives up.)

Edit: Oh and it also occurs to me that maybe her computer isn't powerful enough to give her a very good SL experience. If she has poor graphics or what ever she might be paying attention to instructions, and following them faithfully but not seeing the proper results right away and so thinking it's not working.

Ben & Jerry's has there own OI maybe that could be more her speed?

You have more patients then I would I am all for being helpful but come on this is a joke right?

I just checked, and there is a Landmark to "Orientation Island Public" that I can teleport to, so presumably she can as well. If she can't find the landmark, teleport there yourself, then send her a teleport offer.

If she refuses, and you still feel inclined to teach her, teleport to a place where she can do no harm, perhaps a sandbox or your home, and teach her there. Do the same thing if she's causing a problem someplace - Have a "safe" spot preselected that you can teleport to, then send her a teleport offer, preferably somewhere you can create an objects to recreate the scenario that was giving her a problem.

If she's wanting to participate in the social scene, take her to Free Dove and Freebie Dungeon, if you haven't already. Get really good freebie skins from Suffugium Flea Market (where Eloh Eliot has made several of her skins available for free) and Fleur. By experimenting with obtaining and learning to wear the items, she'll learn a lot. And improving her appearance might be motivating for her to learn more, if she's interested in socializing. ("Improving" in the sense of personalizing her avatar, so it reflects what she wants to project. If she's not interested in looking like a super model, she might be worth even more effort. )

If you're willing to go through all that, and she refuses what you suggest, only you can decide if further effort on your part is worthwhile.

An update ...

I had a reply to the email I sent. It appears she was not even aware that she was causing disruption in the nightclub ... she hated the places I showed her where she could learn ... she hated the public orientation island ...

I am left with the impression that she will not master this.

There is some good news for me though. Other people seem willing to help her.

I think I need to be man enough to admit that I made a mistake, and walk away from this one.

Contact me inworld...tp to her and I'll work with her. I have done a lot of RL training over the years and perhaps I can help. I'm waiting on my mentor badge right now but have helped numerous newbies since I joined SL.

That is a truly generous offer. I will see how the land lies first, since I feel I may have been ostracised for my honest message to her, but I may be able to pass you on to another contact ...

Thank you.

Seems to me you've done more than enough to help her get started. Now it's up to her to get a handle on a few basics.

She could have a look at a few of Torley's beginner's tutorial vids, read a few basic How To's, and I believe there are public 'help' islands you can go back to for practice and more info. At some point people do have to be willing to do the necessary to try and help themselves, as well as relying on friends to bail them out. If this lady is studying law then she'd know that. I'm surprised she didn't already try a smidgeon of background research after initial difficulties.

--
Aes

It sounds like she's just not interested in what SL is - a 3D environment that you can move around in. If she is, and she's not interested enough to spend a few minutes helping herself understand the simple things (on OI), then I'd abandon her - but that's me.

She mentioned to me that she is taking a look at the videos. Personally, I have little confidence that they will make that much impact. There may be a cultural problem here regarding attitudes. I was brought up with a simple outlook - 'deal with it'. Hence I try and familiarise myself with what is needed, even if I dont achieve competence.

There are different outlooks I guess, but I am not sure they work as well in this case.

QFT!

I feel for ya Derek.

A year ago I brought a friend from IRC chat over to SL. I had only been in SL a couple of weeks myself but, in addition to some wonderful people who took me under their wing, I pursued learning everywhere I could. I took a basic "How to Walk and Fly" class from ^ASL^, I think I watched every Torley video available to date, discovered this forum, etc.

My friend had never been in a 3D computer environment (and even got lost going from one IRC chat room to another...lol) so I told him SL had a fairly steep learning curve but to just be patient and in a few weeks he would LOVE it! So that I could show him some of the sights and not have him stuck tweaking his AV, I even went shopping and put together a male avatar for him so he wouldn't look so noobish. I explained he could completely change and/or customize that look but it would save a lot of time his first day. (His online time was very limited.)

We *were* on voice when he arrived in SL, thankfully. However, first he got mad because he wanted to make his AV himself. *sighs* Then he immediately got frustrated trying to move. I explained again that getting comfortable with things like movement in SL would take a little time but to please just be patient.

He wasn't.

Trying to get him out of grumble-mode, I took him to someplace that had an activity he loves in RL - ballroom dancing. I figured if he could "see" the possibilities of SL he would be motivated to learn the basics. TP'd him to Avilion. Unfortunately it was particularly laggy and he fell down the steps leading up to the ballroom and that was it. Proclaiming, "This sux" - he left and, to my knowledge, never returned.

As Quaintly said (paraphrased), the decision to learn or not is basically up to your friend. If she is appreciative of the help you are offering to her, that is one thing. But, imo, if she is more "demanding" of help and won't pursue ways to learn on her own...SL may not be for her.

If she would like to learn...this is the very best website I can recommend for anyone starting out in SL - and for more seasoned residents as well:

http://www.mermaiddiaries.com/2006/11/day-40-green-plaid-and-dino-boots.html

Good luck

If nothing else, this thread has hightlighted an issue that many of us have had experience of ...

My jargon ignorance is showing now, QFT?

The demanding issue is pretty accurate I think. I am of the opinion that she prefers to ask for help, rather than use available help systems around. This is fine for a small issue, like the QFT query I have placed above. The dialogue is interactive, and moving forward. No matter whether a chatroom or SL. It seems that I am picking up all sorts of hints and tips just by engaging with people, and noticing other ways to do things. The problem is the 'how do I ...' syndrome, which then ties up one or more people for an extended period.

An old reply I recall, from where, I cannot remember ...

RTFM - read the F****** manual

if she needs help i can help if she wants..i've mentored a lot of people in sl..

Thank you Ceka.

I will float these offers of help to her, and arrange a meet-up accordingly.

just have her im me in world..we will have her multi tasking and enjoying sl pretty quickly hehehe

I will pass your name on, together with others ....

Whether she can work out how to IM you is another issue ...

Keep us updated, whoever eventually takes this lady on. I'm genuinely curious to find out what happens next!

Derek- you have gone over and beyond- being helpful is one thing but u r risking your own enjoyment. I think it is time she sinks or swims on her own.

We forget that SL is NOT for everyone.

Honestly, the "steepness" of the learning curve is overhyped. Chatting shouldn't be a problem, since you already used chat.

What part of forward, back, left & right is so hard to understand? Even my 5-year-old cousin can figure that out after pressing the buttons for a few seconds and seeing that she's only turning in place.

Editing your appearance - move some sliders. ooOOOoo! Clothing: wear them... or take them off.... wear a new piece....

The basics are not hard to master. The steepness of the basic learning curve is bollocks.