How much help to give new users

Something is causing me frustration. I introduced a friend to SL over 3 weeks ago, in the hope that she would find the social environment that she craved, since the non SL chatroom we used to frequent had become unpleasant.

She bypassed the opportunity to undergo orientation, and is now struggling seriously, despite my own efforts to assist. The other night a kind nightclub host built a screen round her when she lost her clothes and couldnt correct it. Even simple mobility is a big issue. Landmarks and a structured inventory are beyond her. I may have been one of the lucky ones, assimilating the basics pretty quickly, but I am at my wits end to get my friend to deal with this. It has reached the point where hosts have frozen her, and threatened ejection if the disruptions continue (eg trying to hit a dance ball from across a crowded dance floor, causing massive smoke clouds from the floor ...)

Is there somewhere she can go RIGHT back to the beginning, I learned so much in orientation

She can't go back to the main Orientation Island, but there is a landmark in her Library folder to Orientation Island Public, where she can go through the various tutorials again.

Edit: I realise you said landmarks are a problem for her, but you have that OI Public one in your Library folder (we all do) so perhaps you could go there first and offer to teleport her? It might help her even more if you could go through the tutorials with her and make sure she doesn't miss any.

Also, have her watch Torley Linden's video tutorials on YouTube. He's done lots of them for the new user:

http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=Torley&p=r

Thanks for that Skell. I think she visited there, but again, dont know if she paid attention !

I wrote her a message explaining how it is necessary for her to deal with this.

Btw, you editted your post, but the edit didnt show on my screen...

I have seen Torley videos on youtube myself, and think them great.

edit - delay issues I think, your edit is now visible !

It sounds as though she needs a very patient tutor to go through every single tutorial with her and make her keep doing it until she gets it right. Good luck to whoever is willing to do that, as I fear I would probably be tearing my hair out!

Can she use Voice? It might be more helpful if whoever goes through the tutorials with her can be in a private voice call with her. It's much easier (and quicker) to explain vocally than it is to get one's meaning over while typing.

Some people do have problems orienting themselves in a 3D world. They might have spatial awareness problems or just general fumbliness with keyboard commands and the like. For those of us accustomed to 3D worlds (if we've played Nintendo/Playstation, etc games) we pick various things up easily. If your friend has never played such a game before then she probably will find things difficult. It does seem, though, that she wanted to dive in without doing all the boring learning stuff, and now she's struggling. Running before she can walk, if you like.

I have no idea why the edit didn't show up; probably because I was typing it while you opened up the reply screen?

Yes a patient tutor, alas that won;t be me ... my patience has truly been exhausted.

This is MY first sim, and first 3D environment, but I have worked with computers a lot, so understand the concepts I guess.

Re the edit, probably ships in the night !

I went through OI and many help areas and nothing taught me better than patient slers who were willing to show me the ropes.

3 weeks is not really a good amount of time to learn the ropes of SL (depending on how much you are on) however, this is your friend who you brought into SL so be patient and teach her. As well as a whole host of classes she can take by using search education.

If movement is an issue, I've been on SL for almost a year (next month) and I still have problems... I was in a bikini model contest fell off the stage while walking. ; ) lost btw hehe

I still have problems with movement, over rotating when rezzing for instance. I end up doing the drunken walk when trying to follow someone (THEIR world has already rezzed of course, AND they know where they are going).

I didn't want to create the impression that I am an impatient person (although I am), but I wanted to identify where self help is available, even if it is amongst similar residents.

Edit - I had to learn everything by myself, and am very aware of how much I dont know, but I believed that is how everyone started out.

I know what you mean there, which is why whenever I'm taking someone to a new place I always tell them, "Let me know when it's all rezzed for you," and I only move off once they tell me they can see everything. I also keep an eye on their green dot on the mini-map to ensure they're keeping up, and I stop fairly frequently, to allow them time to catch up if they're lagging behind.

This is where a very simple, illustrated tutorial (there must be blogs out there that have them) on the basics would come in useful. Something like how to wear clothes, and why you can't 'take off' a skin or shape but have to replace it with another one, etc.

We did indeed, and we all learned at our own pace. Even for those of us who take to it more quickly, SL still has a very sharp learning curve. I've been inworld for a year, and I'm still learning new things every day, which is one of the reasons I love the place: it keeps on surprising me.

A final thought for your friend: you might want to mention the tutorials at NCI to her. I'm no sure how basic they go, but it's worth a look. There's an updated list posted at every NCI area, informing residents of the upcoming tutorials, together with times and places etc.

She could always make a new alt, just to redo orientation (I can't imagine that going to OIP is a very pleasant experience).

LL should have made it so mentors can just tp people back to OI long ago . If someone can't be trusted not to tp a griefer over, they shouldn't be a mentor in the first place so there really isn't any trust issue there.

(Edited to add that there's the SL paper book as well. I don't know how good/bad it is, but it might be worth looking into as well if she's determined to learn)

Derek, I'm curious to know why your friend chose to skip orientation. Is it because she is impatient? If it is, then that would explain why she's having problems. Like Skell said, SL has a sharp learning curve, and if one doesn't start from the very basics, it's hard to build up to the more difficult stuff.

If you haven't already tried it, I suggest you take her to a private place with no distractions, and go over things slowly with her. Like, "Click the 'inventory' tab on the bottom of the screen, look for the folder 'XXX', right-click on the folder and choose 'add to outfit'." That kind of thing. For some, it might be intuitive, but others need clear step-by-step instructions.

You can bring her to the Pink House, it is somewhere that she can rez items (thus can learn to open & unpack boxes) and it has a pose stand too so she can adjust prim skirts or hair if she needs to. Alternatively, you guys can go to Noob Island where furnished apartment units are provided free for use (any empty unit is fair game, and you are considered the 'occupant' for as long as you are logged in and remain in that unit).

The Pink House
http://slurl.com/secondlife/100Limite/167/154/500

Noob Island free furnished condos
http://slurl.com/secondlife/NOOB%20ISLAND/15/229/23

I think this may be part of the problem.

I told her when she registered that orientation was essential. She considered it was not required.

I then took her to The Memory Bazaar, my 'home' where I learned and practised to get comfortable. She left that after a few minutes, claiming it was boring.
Since then, she has expected and allowed kind hearted people to run round after her, etc etc. I feel a responsibility to assist her, but not to be her mommy.

an example of the constant dialogue that goes on ...

Friend: where is the dance ball?
Me: it is above your head
Friend: ok. How do I see it?
Me: look upwards and click
Friend: ok. How do I look upwards ...

during this dialogue, the friend will be clicking on everything furiously, causing floors to emit smoke and all sorts of frustration, including lagging her own computer and others

As you can see, this is a back to basics exercise, in my opinion, although I dont know whether she will agree ...

I am almost of the view point that residents should not have access until they can pass a basic test, eg similar to the tests that were at orientation island
a sort of SL 101

I hope this doesnt come across as if I am having a whinge at my friend's expense, I really do find this exasperating.

I think most people just enter SL by themselves? That acts as a natural "test" already since if they don't have the patience to learn they'll give up soon enough which is probably why we have a 10% retention rate for newbies (a portion of which are alts so it's actually even lower than that) .

If you're on the RC, go to Help / Tutorial. That's what some Lindens are considering to have in place of OI. Just drop them off at an infohub with that pop-up, no orientation of any kind.

*reminds herself to ask about the results of that experiment next week*

From what you say here, she sounds as if she is pretty impatient. I forsee one of two things happening: she might get so frustrated that she quits SL altogether, or she eventually realise that she is getting nowhere and will have to make herself slow down and learn stuff step-by-step.

Unfortunately it's a decision she has to make for herself. And she won't make it until she sees the problem. Right now she's not seeing the problem. Also unfortunately, nobody can make her see the problem. I guess there's nothing much you can do but wait, but it's gonna take lots of patience!

Voice is usually very good, but not always. About a year ago I was talking someone through using an object. I am not exaggerating when I say I spent 20 minutes using voice, trying to get her to left click on it, and she never managed it. I gave up in the end.

/me grins. I know what you mean there. I have the same thing when my parents call for computer help.

Me: OK, right-click on the folder, and--
Mum: What do you mean, right-click?
Me: Click on it with the right mouse button, Mum.
Mum: There's a right mouse button? Am I using the wrong one, then?
Me: ...

The reason I raised this thread, is because the problem is beginning to get rather large. As I mentioned in my first post, she was frozen last night, because of the mayhem she was causing. I had just nipped out of the nightclub for a breath of fresh air (strange how that is carried over into SL) and when I returned, there she was, like a playing card.

the ensuing dialogue ...

host: I will release you if you promise not to keep clicking on the floor ... if you continue, I will eject you
friend: ok, I won't, where is the dance ball ...
me: it is over here by me
...friend;s arm raises towards me ...
me: STOP friend, just come over here
friend: how do I get over there?
me: just walk over ...
friend: how do I walk?
Host: OMG ...

at this point I accepted that this was a serious problem, and could result in expulsion ... The host was understandably fairly livid, since the club was pretty well disrupted.
I am not sure how committed she is to participating in SL, I think she is just using it as an extended chatroom with streamed music. No problem there, but even in the old chatrooms, there was a protocol which was expected, and there were 'newbie' chatrooms to get comfortable.

This thread has yielded a lot of useful info though, I will feed back what I think may help ...

I'm sorry but the Learning Curve for Basic Functionality is not that steep. She definitly made a mistake by skipping Orientation, but an hour someplace practicing is all you need to function. She is either very lazy, very immature, or is playing you and likes the attention.

/me plants face into desk. Oh my God, seriously, I would have been pulling out my hair!

It sounds as though she's not retaining any information. If you've told her that to walk she needs to use the arrow keys on her keyboard: press the 'up' key and she walks forward, press the 'left' key and she turns left, and she's *still* not getting it, then she's either... uhm... really daft (I'm trying to be nice here!) or she's being intentionally obstructive. I'd hate to think it was the latter, but unfortunately her behaviour is going to be viewed by many less understanding people as griefing.

Have you explained to her the consequences if that's the case? That if she continues like this and doesn't make the effort to learn, then it's highly likely someone could AR her for griefing and she'd lose her account, and thus the 'chat with streaming music' environment she wants to be in?

Or just plain thick - as Skell wanted to say

I'd be at the point of persuading her that SL isn't for her, and that chat rooms are her forte.

That too. But we'd have to be a density high enough to shield you from radiation, if you ask me.

I have tried a variety of methods, from the patient explaining every keystroke, to walking away and leaving her alone (which I now accept may be necessary). Earlier today I wrote a very explanatory letter to her (email) explaining she needed to get her act together.

My last hope is this thread...

If she is unsuccessful, I will just accept it, the good news is that because I was dropped in at the deep end, ie I found my own way, knowing nobody and nowhere, I have some really lovely friends in SL now, despite having personal barriers to overcome.

I didnt realise that the dropout rate from SL is actually so high ...

Just curious. Do you know how old she is?

Not in years, but she is taking a PhD in criminal law or something related. Playing me along has occured to me, but my relationship to her is simply as a fellow chatter in a non-SL chatroom, which I no longer use as some of the people there are nasty. She missed my presence, so IM'ed me and I told her where I was ... I have no emotional attachment, so if she wants to survive in SL she will have to deal with it. My involvement is just like most people, I have tried to help.

@ Skell. re pulling out hair, if you meet me in SL, you will notice I am bald ha ha

I recently introduced my mother to SL and while she is nowhere near this slow, I must say that sometimes my patience is really tried. The difference is that my mother actually seems to try and does not 'usually' repeat the same mistake more than a time or two -- she actually makes decent progress, even if it is a bit slow in my mind.

Here is how I would handle your friend. I would offer a limited amount of time with her each time she is on - scheduled ahead of time so that you can still have an SL life. I would take her or meet her in a quiet spot for instruction. Until she can show me that she knows how to do all of the basics, many times overs, I would refuse to take her anywhere with me. If she decides to go somewhere on her own and get thrown out, banned, whatever, that is her call.

You can only be so helpful - the other person must understand that they must do the real work.

Criminal law is complicated and precise, and omg doesn't she watch CSI? Lets assume she can learn..

Im not sure why she was frozen at the club though? Because she could not click on the dance ball? Because she asked how to walk? What exactly did she do to be frozen?

Also, how did she know to skip OI??? Did you suggest she skip it and you would teach her?