Land Taken by Estate Owner - What to do?

Can we get back on topic here. So far the OP is saying they lost their land for no reason whatsoever. Is this really what happened? If it is, then this is extremely unfortunate. But without knowing the other side of the story, it puts the rest of us who read this thread at a disadvantage. We don't know what to believe?

Jesus Christ you're holding death against people as a reason for bad landlords?

As you were moving your stuff out, I take it you were renting then.

Sure, I'll stop posting in my defense, if you are done attacking my posts and misquoting me. We can actually leave this thread alone altogether, since the OP's question was answered in post #3.

When we replay this same thread next week, can I be on the "hot landlords" list?

If this is just a regular publicity stunt, can I be the alt with the evil estate landlord?

Have your alt rent at Liome. I'll kick their ass out with no refund and ban them after a day. Then you post a thread about it and I'll have my alt talk you up until my fingers bleed.

Oh nevermind, this won't work. You are one of my alts.

A little defensive today aren't we Ray? If you want to get all high and mighty about no longer posting to this thread since the OP's question was answered in post #3, why did you bother answering in post #7? You are confusing my motivation for participating in this thread with a perceived threat to your business and/or reputation. I am not attacking you or anyone else on the SL all-star list. I am sure they are there for a reason. Most of those names I don't know, but since I have seen the good Sarah does in world with her freebie store, I only have good thoughts in my mind as to the type of person she may be.

No I was participating in this thread because I was curious to see if there was another story behind the OP's story and at the same time I wanted to voice my opinion that I know numerous ethical sim/land owners who are not on the all-star list. In fact now that we are voicing personal opinions about who people should rent from, I would like to publicly mention that Plato Cochrane (someone who occasionally posts on these forums) is an ethical landlord and even though my stay on his land was extremely short (only about 24 hours), it ended in a way where I was satisfied with how he treated me. Plato is not on the all-star list ... but he is just one example of ethical land owners that people can trust. They do exist. SL is a big world and it's unfortunate that the bad apples make things difficult for the less than famous yet still ethical sim/land owners.

You fired the first shot at me after my initial post in this thread. It doesn't have to be this way. I don't want to make enemies here. I am not a bad person. SL as a whole has me frustrated right now. It's supposed to be fun here and lately it has been anything but fun for me. But that is my problem to deal with, not yours.

Jessica can now be seen extending an olive branch to Mr Figtree.

Figgy accepts and apologizes. There are other things going on for me that are making me extra ornery right now. You didn't deserve the personal attack.

I will refrain from naming all-star estate owners for a while. I am going to go relax in one of my Ace Albion houses now, under a Lilith Heart palm tree.

Maybe you should consider opening up a PR firm, Raymond.

coco

Yes, as apparent by the five flame wars I've gotten myself into on various forums in the last 48 hours, I obviously am a master of public relations.

This would be why my info boxes on my estate now give out a notecard detailing exactly that (as part of "Mainland & Estate - The Good, The Bad and the Ugly", which attempts to highlight the pros and cons of both sides). I don't want my residents to not know what power they are granting me when they invest their money, their time and their entertainment hours in my sims.

Char

I have to put a plug in for my Estate Owner Diddster Jinx. I've lived there from my first days in SL and can recommend him highly. He has the Lost and Daydream Islands.

I think that it is great to have a place where good people are noted; SL is pretty chaotic if you have no way to tell the good guys from the bad ones.

Not that dying makes one a bad landlord - if the estate is run by an individual, and something bad happens to that person, anything can happen to their SL holdings. On the other hand, if someone at LL kicks the bucket at an inopportune time, they have plenty of people to carry on the show and all continues as normal.

As far as whether or not the individual island owners must care more about their customers because they have more to lose, as was proposed by another poster - I'm sure that some landlords feel that way, but not all. We can flame bad landlords all we like on the forums, but there are plenty of people who come into SL every day who don't know the difference - that's how the bad ones can stay in business. If landlord X reclaims property from renter Y and renter Z, that's not going to make the news in any major media outlets. If Linden Labs starts mass reclaiming land from customers for no apparent reason, you bet it's going to get into the news and turn into a huge PR problem.

Interestingly, as unpleasant as it may be for a landlord, the hard facts are that 'name and shame' doesn't really do all that much to a land baron businesswise.

Here's where I'm coming from... who has been the most 'shamed' landlord of all time? Yep, you got it - the most successful one of all time.

Likely what we are seeing here are two effects:

One, if very successful and you have *that* much land you are going to make mistakes, or more to the point aaaany flaw you have will be amplified.

The second effect might be the 'sheer scale' effect - as bad as your press might be, the unwritten message is that you are now 'known' and as such, a known quantity with publicity (no matter how bad!) who is unlikely to fold overnight.

* * * * *

I've certainly made mistakes in the last year and a half, across hundreds of customers. In fact, though I'm not aware of any bad forum press against me, here is what *I* know I have done...

1) accidentally put two people into the wrong parcels (luckily neither cared but I was prepared to make amends)

2) accidentally put the wrong land rate (high side!!!!) onto some parcel meters (I paid up *immediately* and in most of them I noticed before the tenant did)

3) accidentally put the wrong land rate (low side) onto some parcel meters - the honest residents contacted me quick!

4) lost my waiting list - yep - horror of horrors, I was using the 'notes' part of my own profile to store it. DO NOT DO THIS. It was completely wiped one day... fortunately I rebuilt 95%+ of it from scribbles, snippets, post-its and notecards to me. Was months ago, and I never heard any screams, so... it's behind me now.

5) Apparently mis-sorted the transaction records excel spreadsheet, and did not note a payment from a resident - then went calling upon them to please pay up. Thank the gods I was polite, and had the sense to re-check on the spot when I was informed that they did pay me. If *anything* ever would have hit the forums it might have been that one, and I was (wrongly) dead-convinced that they hadn't paid. Whew!

There's other stuff, but this is what I remember off the top of my head, and kind of what it's like. I've *never* evicted a resident for breaking 'rules' (never had to) and the Caledon ban list had nobody on it last I checked. All in all, stay cool and people are generally decent - I've yet to have a real problem with anybody.

* * * * *

Come to think of it.... nobody has ever been a 'professional' land baron and there is no such thing as 'land baron school' and so forth. We're *all* amateurs.

Most of us do the best we can in a very uncertain market, in very uncertain times.

Our top skills might include 'doing what we said we would' and 'balancing the books' - beyond that, it's a new frontier.

* * * * *

And as for getting publicity in this thread, let me put it this way: I can't take any more people right now even if I wanted to.

So go away!

grin

Caledon has no one on its banned list!!!!! Wow, that's amazing. Caledon must have some sort of magical effect on residents...come to think of it, I do feel very well mannered when I visit..must be the Victorian sensibility seeping in.

Yup Ive had Lost Island Land since May 2007, BUT now the land is being reclaimed by LL. Serenity Islands all went yesterday. People have lost their land and their property and had no warning to clean up. If you check the website he is cleaning up Daydream Islands now.

If you own any land on Lost Islands, Serenity, Hope, daydream etc land, clean up quick before the rest are reclaimed by LL. Sorry to say the sim owner is not replying to IMs or emails at the moment and people who own property on the islands left are worried now.

Titania

Haha, the estate ban list maxes out at 500 users. And in my sim I'm actualy getting pretty worried about hitting that max soon.

Of course we are just asking for trouble, we run a furry orientated sim with a sandbox....

Holy necropost, Batman!

/me puts her hand up timidly. Ray said he'd put me on his list, but I'm only a teeny-tiny land baron so probably don't count.

I think a lot of landlords don't really understand what they are doing. I met a previous tenant today, and went with her to her new skybox as she was having trouble getting her TV to work. This was Estate and maybe things are different - I only do mainland so forgive me if I have misunderstood. The skybox was quite nicely done, sitting on one of Mystical Cookie's rezzable platforms, so they have some garden also. In a nutshell -

She pays L$200 a week for 200 prims!!! I nearly fell over.

The platform is probably just shy of a 1024 (or thereabouts). The plot it sits on is 4096, with at least 3 other boxes on the same plot, and other rental units on the ground.

They have no control over their media settings - the first thing people always ask me for - the landlord has to come and change the media stream for them. She was a bit shocked when I told her that if the landlord changes the stream for someone else on the same plot, theirs will change as well.

Landlord didn't know how to make the TV work, ie, deed to group, etc, so said they couldn't have one.

There is no prim counter, so the landlord comes round once a week and counts the prims, and the tenants have to check this manually.

The rent is paid to a Vase (yes, with flowers in). Once the rent is paid, anyone else can come in and also pay the same vase, and they will all be tenants together.

The tenants have to join a group, but the land is set with no auto-return and anyone can rezz stuff.

Before I started I researched loads about how to make it all work, and this is all basic stuff. Sure I make mistakes, who doesn't, but I'd never tell a tenant they couldn't have a TV because I didn't know how to make it work.

Sorry if this was brought up already, I didn't want to read through the usual debates of estate land rentals vs. mainland ownership.

Our new Communications Linden, Katt has stated that LL will do something about these kind of things. We are still waiting for her to clarify in another thread official policy vs. her thoughts. In the meantime see this post for her answer to another simillarisih thread:

/327/1a/269671/4.html#post2068475

Yes, but she's new. She will learn.

Yep, I am not holding out hope that this is a policy change. But I do kinda hold out hope she will clarify a bit.

I have never heard of anyone getting help from LL about this kind of thing.

That post didn't really say LL WOULD do anything, seemed more of a "Let us know, and we'll file it away for future reference if a pattern develops." I don't expect a change in policy, personally They don't have the resources to investigate these claims.

Yes, I agree.

It just really changes the perspective I had of "LL doesn't care/won't get involved, etc". If we are to offer advice here on these kind of things a clear policy from the Communications Person is important I think.

It is so very rare a Linden will take a stand that when they do I guess I just find it extremely important that they are clear on policy.. not just offering a could happen kind of thing. The way LL changes it's methods often and without much communication about it I tend to want the facts spelled out in case.

Funny that some people actualy seem nervous that LL may change policy and start tracking scammers....

Don't forget we have a new CEO who played some SL before he came here... maybe he got ripped off renting once and now that he's in charge....

*Just* in case you mean me in the some people.. I wholeheartedly endorse, hope for and pray that LL will finally take a stand and track this kind of thing. It is a hotbed of scamming potential that needs to be shut down. Just because someone can afford to buy an Island should not give them free pass to use the system to gain money in a scamming way.