Land Taken by Estate Owner - What to do?

But if the estate owner has enabled 'land resell' for the sim, then they have in effect given approval.

They can but I've seen covenants that state that you can sell land only with authorisation from the island owner.

That's fair enough I suppose. The tools are pretty black and white.

Ah, my problem then is that none of my residents frequent the forums.

Back onto the topic though, it is possible that there was some fineprint in the covenant that was transgressed. At any rate it's terrible business practice to boot a customer without so much as an IM or contact of any kind.

On the other hand, and I'm not trying to defend anyone, but remind that we do have but one side to the story. As I said earlier, I hate hearing of these problems because they put all estate owners in a bit of a bad light.

As many others have remarked, there is very little that can actually be done. The best thing would be to try and open some communication with the estate owner (or an estate manager). Linden Lab is unlikely to get involved as they will always consider the estate owner as the only true owner of the island property.

Good luck -- hopefully it will turn out to be a misunderstanding of some sort and things will get sorted out.

-Atashi

At this point we're all saying the same thing.

A: If the estate owner won't respond to your IM's or let you make your case, then there's nothing you can do inside SL to get that land back. You'd have to sue the estate owner IRL. If you do so, as far as I know, you would be the first.

Next, you've piqued our curiosity, so please lets see the confiscation clauses in the covenant in question, if there are any.

Yes, all good questions. I did not provide detail since was really after general information and did not what to open up beyond that, but toward your curiosity:

I violated no clause in covenant that specified confiscation.

Yes, I am able to re-sell land. In fact I sold 2 parcels next door the previous week with the island owners knowledge and support. (I IM when decided to sell and ask if wanted to add tier boxes since were new thing since I bought. They did so. I sold 48 hours later.)

I understand that there are always good questions to be asked, but I assure you all I did was proper and permitted.

Thanks again for your responses.

I would find it hard to believe any respectable Sim owner would just take land with no reason given, Not only is it unconscionable, but incredibly bad for one's reputation. I acknowledge there are bad Landlords out there, but i suspect there are just as many, bad tenants. I would want to hear both sides before making any judgments.

Sorry we didn't have better news for you! Thanks for the info. Hopefully, newcomers thinking about estate rental will read this thread as a cautionary tale.

Yes, I certainly understand that and I agree with you. And it is precisely why I asked general question, did not provide details and did not name names.

If any one want to IM me in world, I will provide more information as appropriate.

Thanks again to all of you for your responses.

Yeah, I'm kinda surprised - the reputation hit is probably a *lot* worse than recovering the value of the land...

...and even more so, if you are taking the trouble to secure someone new for the property, this is generally *very positive* for the sim owner.



I really get the sense that something's funny here. What possible reason would anyone have to ban you?

I sense either 'misunderstanding' or 'half the story' in this case.

I agree. At least in a third party forum, the sim owner would have a chance to tell his or her side of the story. If the sim owner, indeed, reclaimed "bought land" with no explanation of any kind, this is incredibly poor judgment and dismal public relations.

This is the inherent problem with buying private land - there are no checks and balances. With mainland, there's *some* at least.

From what little I know of this, I don't think there is much youcan do, legally. I would be tempted to post the details, including names in a third party forum elsewhere.

Here's what happened with me a few months ago. I, along with a partner, held land together in a sim. The relatioship broke up and I needed a place to go. I contacted a good friend,who is also an attorney, and asked for advice. I was basically hoping I could rent or buy something from her.

She basically told me that in her opinion, "buying" land where you don't pay tier to Linden Lab is basically just a high priced rental. Since I was looking for somewhere temporary to set up housekeeping, she suggested that I just rent. She gave me three names and said to contact them first: Raymond Figtree, Steve Mahfouz and Sarah Nerd. I went to Raymond's sim first, FELL in LOVE with it and rented almost immediately.

My partner and I settled our land and I received several thousand Lindens in compensation. By that time, I was so content at Raymond's sim that I just stayed. I just paid another month's rent a few days ago and was happy to do it. Unless something radically changes, I will never buy land again...period. I also cannot imagine leaving where I live now. Raymond didn't know me at all, except that we have a mutual friend. He has treated me like I am sort of VIP. His property manager is my neighbor and she is amazing. She is right on the slightest problem and has become a very good friend.

The fact that I am openly transgendered led me to believe that I would not be treated as well as others. Raymond and Rosie, his onsite manager have been wonderful to me.

My advice is this - if you buy, buy on the mainland unless you can afford to BUY your own private island estate. If you rent, do your homework and find landlords that have sterling reputations.

The bottom line is that you, unfortuanately, are out some money. The good news is that the crook won't be gettingmore from you and you will probably find amuch better place to call home and give your money to someone who returns value and deserves your business.

What I don't understand about some estates is why they charge a an initial buy price that is equal or (in some cases) MUCH higher than mainland prices for a similar plot. I know island buys are expensive, I understand the desire to get a quick return on investment, but as an example, I happen to have been looking at estate land for the last week, and there's a wide disparity between two types of land owners.

The first type leads to the problem in this thread. You find a nice 8k lot, you pay $40,000L to 'buy' the land, then pay tier. Should you do something wrong, or the sim owner gets in a grumpy mood, and you can lose it all.

The second type is more reasonable, and I'll use Wildefire Walcott's Desperation Isle as an example. Find a nice 8k plot, buy the land for the cost of one weeks tier. Once the rental box is setup, you pay tier, and you get the purchase price prorated and refunded. Should something happen, you don't lose the upfront purchase price, and it certianly can't be argued that the islands aren't well maintained and very nice looking.

Seems like the second situation would be far more appealing to someone shopping for land, as long as they do the research beforehand.

I'm so so sorry to hear about your unfortunate experience.....that was a nasty and very un-business like thing to do..... Personally, I don't really know that much about the land business, but recently I sold some land and a lovely lady by the name of Skye Whitcroft took me though the process.....very helpful and tolerant of my lack of knowledge about everything.. maybe you'd consider looking her up....I know she's the author of a sticky 'how to transfer land etc' on the forums.

Anyway, I hope things go better for you in the future....keep your chin up

Hey there all. I know the backstory to this as Olde is a very good friend of mine (so yes, I might be biased, but I can assure you am capable of viewing situation objectively). I just had to comment on here that I can assure you Olde did nothing in violation of covenant, which I viewed myself the day before Olde put land up for sale. I can certainly understand why many of you think is more to the story as is no rational explanation for owners actions, but without identifying sim owner with all the details (which I'm sure you'd all agree is not good form) is little can be done to persuade anyone of that.

Many many thanks to those of you who have posted supportive and informative comments, even tho sadly the info is that is pretty much nothing can be done.

Could anyone maybe recommend a third party site to post on? Either here or by IM inworld?

If we can get Des to post again in this thread he'll explain exactly why although the price might be lower, your actual risk is higher. My short summary:

$1695 (+/- VAT lol) per island is a hefty sum of money for most folks. Only those who have a serious investment of say 10+ islands are likely be there come what may. Less than (say) 2 or 3 and you're in the hands of either a hobby owner - so what happens when G-Life happens along? - or someone who loves SL; in which case your investment is entirely dependent on their emotional state. Another fiasco like the handling of the introduction of VAT for European members could see your investment sold out from underneath you by the sim owner with little or no chance of recouping it.

Please note the number of qualifying "coulds" "mays" etc...nothing is a given here and there ARE, despite the number of comlaint threads, many honourable estate owners out there who exemplify customer service. Ray can name you a few

Like all investments - never gamble more than you can afford to lose a couple of hours sleep over.

Inc

So, at worst, I could lose a week or two of tier payments and find a new place to live - in the other scenario (and as is the case for the OP) that up-front investment is always in jeopardy. Again, I've looked at sim pricing, and I can certainly understand why people want to get that initial payment back by 'selling' the land, but unless there’s a sterling reputation and a drop-dead gorgeous island build, I don't see why I would want to drop 40k + tier on something when the second option is available to me.

Dallas, Thank you for making my month. All the work, time and resources I have put into my sim just suddenly became worth it. You will always be the #1 VIP in Liome.

I think it comes from a misunderstanding of the process. because the terminology in all the menus says "buying" many actually think they are buying. That's why I go out of my way to make it clear my island plots are rental, and for the record I don't charge anything down, when you 'buy' the land, that payment is your first month's rent. I know many sim owners want to recoup their initial 1695.00 from the huge sell price, but to me that's like a taxi driver expecting you pay the car payment on their taxi just to get a ride. If people are willing to enter such a deal, and feel comfortable, thats fine. I just do things differently.

Talking hard cash, Selinar, true enough. All I can say as a sim owner is that I've seen people get VERY attached to where they "live" in SL, rented or no.. and the people they live next(ish) door to. Don't discount the emotional cost - which is as real here as anywhere else. But certainly $$ sums should be done - especially if convinced that staying in SL is the right option.

Yes, you're always going to be at some risk if you "lease"... you've a financial tie at least. But then, LL could just as well sell up to a large mouse with very white gloves and where would we all be then?

Inc

I do it the same way you do it.

Hi,
Id like to name a great Sim Owner...Blake Dwi...i have dealt with him for quite sometime now and run a large beach resort from one of His many well run Sims. He is fair, honest & very business like, yet approachable. Hes helped me out of a few tight corners lol

Its a shame if someone does have a bad experience...but hey...theres good guys out there...you just gotta find them and stick with them . I wasnt aware there was a good land agent list...maybe he ought to be added to it?

love
xx

Thank you Dallas. I am so very grateful you chose to rent in Liome. It is my pleasure to serve you and all our tenants. But you, you are the best and I love having you as one of my new best friends. You are numero uno!

Fair play to you. I'd reccomend Sarah Nerd and Desmond Shang at the drop of a hat to be honest. I've had no experience of renting or buying from either but they've been around long enough for me to consider them trustworthy. Steve Malfhouz is another whom seems to be popular but I've read less about him.

Anshe must be trustworthy too but strangely I don't see people reccomending Anshe in the way that people reccomend Desmond, Sarah and Steve, maybe it's because Anshe's business is so large that she loses the personal touch?

However Raymond, you're spot on with reccomending people on personal experience, it really is the best method of reccomendation.