A Word from Blue Linden

That is a good idea btw!

Eh. Why does the theme of teens being less competent keep on arising? "Teens get bored" "Teens don't think the way adults do" ect. ect.

Where are you getting these facts from? Is the a wikipedia for all childen? (joke)

But seriously. I don't think it is fair at all to judge the teen in second life based on personal experience in real life. So-> You have a kid. So -> You have more than one kid.
Erm. Ok. Judge your kids? Not all teens. Especially the psyche of teens. Unless you have a degree in physiology I don't think you are certified to make the assumptions of what teens think; furthermore, even with a degree, you can still be wrong!!! (And not really qualified -even if you are certified-)


From my point of view. Merging the grids should be take in steps.
-> Sims where adults and children can go
-> Forms signed by adults to allow their children into areas for adults and teens.
-> ect. ect.


I agree. Once content is out there...There is no taking it back. You can't shove all of the teens onto our grid because of the content. If we want to allow both groups...We need to remake a whole lot of rules and enforce them...OR... we need to start over.

"Start over? Oh no! What do you mean Sleepy?"
-> We need untained SIMs. We need a place where only people who are not interested in the explicit content side of SL will go. As these sims expand the explicit sims will hopefully shrink.

Meh. Think of it as infecting communism...except don't!! It's not like communism at all, but think of how the spreading will work.

Nowhere did I say teens are less competent, are incompetent, or anything else negatively commenting upon their talent, creativity or competency. In fact more the opposite, I agreed that teens are creative too and even said I was one myself. ;p

As for 'where did I get that from' - from the post I replied to, which stated that teens are bored in the teen grid. ;p

Other teens have blogged, that the current teen grid is 'boring' and they want to test their skills in a wider market. And/or that it's boring in teen SL and they are aching to get into (regular) SL. So, I got it from them.

Also I remember what it was like being 15 or so myself and I know that until a person hits 21 they want to race to that birthday and all it offers. (Which is actually also part of many adults' reservations about allowing teens to mix with grownups in SL - will virtual alcohol sold to a minor be illegal for instance? And what about ones who want to experience uh, things they are really too young for IRL?)

Now. I wasn't pointing that post at you, but at the general theme I was sniffing. -> Furthermore, if you read some of the past posts, you WILL see that.

But in terms of all of those blogs. That is a good point. I haven't heard of them, but I would believe that they are out there. However, I would like to point out a lot of it may be hyperbole in attempt to make the grids merge. "I have asked LL a million times to help my boredom by merging the grids" (unrealistic fake quote I know) is an example of what I am guessing might be on a bunch of those blogs. It doesn't actually mean they are actually bored though.

What are you basing this assumption upon? At no point has LL said this will happen years from now, and I'd think it a waste of their website space, and time, to announce the changes and then wait *years* which is an eon in cyber-business time. SL itself has only been around (for public use) for 'years' in total. I recall seeing it announced for beta testing/early joining around 2003, maybe 2002.



I didn't see you specify teaching and counseling as being the only ones but at any rate the discussion or announcement has been pertaining to adults age verifying if they ever wish to use adult content or visit any adult sim or do adult roleplay (including violence for instance maybe zombie shooting...which can result in virtual dismemberment).

But I'll point out that adults can already teach and counsel in an environment which requires background checks etc., first, and that it is called the existing teen grid.



It is totally different and that is really the whole point and the charm of it. Also, the false syllogism thing, about a part of a circle not being the entire circle. etc. (I have also criticised invasion of privacy in needless ways in RL too.)



No.

If you haven't read the 5 discussion threads I hope you do, because people outline their concerns on privacy in detail - some also describe the difficulty some nations have in using the existing methods. Not all nations even use bank cards and some people have either had trouble with paypal or do not wish to use it. Of course people address the current methods since we have no other information.



No. Also, advantage to who? If I wanted to tutor I might've already applied to do so, but SL is far from the only place to tutor - not to mention real life tutoring. Teaching adults to read (IRL), for instance. For that matter probably a lot of regulars in RA like to 'teach' or 'help' but teens are not required in order to do so. People in SL teach others to build, etc.



Not true at all, in fact people get ripped off in land sales, sim flips, lost rent, undelivered products, etc., all the time without hope of redress. Try enforcing this when the landlord or merchant lives in some other nation, for just one example. Or logs out of SL not to return. If you do not believe me search past threads in this forum.



I didn't say that you said this. I asked you a question - why should the existing world be turned upside down so that teens can do what adults there are already doing? Are adults' contributions creatively speaking, not as valuable? If they are, then why change things? The reason I asked this is because one reason you gave was the creating teens will do.



Kids can already see what is being created in SL via blogs like NPIRL or even by seeing flickr pix of what is in SL. Also, again, (vetted) adults can help kids already in existing teen grid. People think of SL as if it encompasses all of the real world, but how about teens going to a real museum, or taking classes in art, etc. They can also do this in other places online. Are photoshop tutorial forums only open to adults? (I don't know)



Okay two things, one, it was community theater not youth theater. I did both, but my point was that it was a smallish town - and the real world. People are less likely to do something bad (some people, at least) if they face the same group the next day. Online, hit and split. Y'know? *You seem to mix RL and SL and they are not the same at all imo*

Also again, the real world didn't stop existing when I grew up. Why would kids not still take advantage of local activities in the real world? Why is a mixed adult/kid virtual society a benefit? I haven't seen a strong argument yet. (Maybe because no one yet knows? Unless PS3 "Home" is anything to go by and then, look out...)



Nope, didn't happen. Again, social consequences of real life vs. flybynight virtuality. People behaved well, because they had a stake in that same community or group. Kind of like a stranger flipping off someone on the highway vs. on the block they live in. My contention is that a license plate # doesn't stop the highway road rager, any more than being logged with a credit card will to someone online. Being known in person does but that only works for the real world. Again there is no way to totally be sure who is at the keyboard, let alone, that the ID is accurate and so on.



Adults' emotions and minds have been messed with, read back in past 'broken heart' threads. Now factor in naive, impressionable gullible kids. Also, if adults have been convinced to skype, email, and rl meetings, why think it won't extend to kids. Do you think manipulative sociopaths will not figure a way.



My point is that there is no such thing as 'transparency' in RL but especially not in virtual life. Societal pressure, is about all. And that only works in RL and usually in small or smallish social circles.



Not be trusted to trade? So all virtual businesses should have to comply - I thought you began this post by saying you aren't stating this is for everyone. A lot of people run a business in SL or wish to. What's your reasoning on people either coughing up RL info or not being allowed to sell things in SL?



And I'd have been against people bringing kids into the wild west, too. But as far as that goes, it's what attracted most people - the freedom, the claiming a stake, and building it up. That freedom is what people don't wish to lose. Not only for actual activities but the environment that goes along with it. The feeling of possibility.

Anyway, sometimes I rp in a wild west sim and there are virtual kids in there but they are RL adults, and they roleplay as orphans in a totally PG way. I would not want actual kids it raises a slew of issues across the board.



From what merchants have told me, some of the top and more flagrant copybotters/resellers are known and still nothing can be done. The reason is laws in that person's country and difficulty to prosecute - NOT because their RL info is not known. So copybots issues will not be solved with this alone.



I've tried to explain my thoughts on various issues swirling around the proposed 'possible changes' in great detail. Btw it wasn't necessary to quote my entire previous post. I do not go back and change anything once someone's replied. (And before then, mainly for clarification or typos.)

--

ETA to Sleepy Xue: Well from what I recall some of it was before the announcements, and it sounds like authentic grousing about boredom to me. (And not only griping but also reasoned critiques/proposed wishes for changes.) Not all even wanted a merger, some just wanted improvements to the existing teen grid. But if you wish to speculate they "didn't really mean it" - well. Lol. Ask them, I guess.

Pay attention to what i typed and stop interpereting it / further jumping to conclusions merely to give yourself something to bounce off so you can continue to put forth your own opinions here and you may answer some of your own questions.

There's always the possibility that teens might be allowed to join the main grid once the changes have been made, while leaving the Teen Grid intact for those who still want to use it. Just a thought.

I'd love to see some of the content that has been created on the teen grid. Clothes, builds, gadgets, crazy avavtars. I'll bet there is some pretty cool stuff over there.

Well now let me see To put a pic in your profile last time i looked cost 10L for the pic please correct me if i am wrong, If you stand in a sim that has shops and you start telling ppl you have something to sell I bet the sim owner/shop owner will soon show you the door

slx (xstreet) only costs if you sell something, and they even have free space for the server boxes for a limited time for users.

I said that it doesn't cost to make something, but it does cost to upload and I did not say anything about standing in a shop sim advertising your wares

not sure where you got that from

and I said nothing about a profile pic either (maybe you should read my post again)

I was making a comment on how it does not cost anything to make something in SL (and of course something doesn't include everything, some things will cost due to upload fees, such as custom textured clothing, textures made by yourself, animations, sounds...

and of course, marketing will have a cost associated to it, but marketing is not creating (making) something in SL

Some folks make things, just for the fun of making them, and do not worry about marketing or even selling them.
Sorry but your comments do not make sense to me, as first, you repeated something I already said, it costs to upload textures, and second I said nothing about being at someones store and advertising you sell stuff, which by the way, has no cost associated to it.

From the conversation I had with Blue, he alluded (or, I inferred at any rate) to the notion that there would always be a "teen grid" of some sort, an area just for them. That's a notion I can back 100%.

Yes... it will be known as "The Mainland"

It just makes no sense to keep a Teen Grid and a sanatized Main Grid. If they were going to improve the Teen Grid and keep it safely segregated, the need for an Adult Content Continent would be ridiculously small... 2-4% small, right?

Everyone would be a lot less confused if they were to realize that this move and the eventual merger of the Teen and Main Grids has nothing to do with children and everything to do with corporate and educational funding. Children are just the excuse. Profit is the motivator.

So we have Blue saying there will always be a Teen Grid and Philip saying the general direction LL is taking is to "make the overall experience appropriately safe and controlled for everybody." thru-out Second Life.

Which one do you believe? Or even better, why bother believeing either of them? Ask M Linden if he thinks there will always be a Teen Grid once the Mainland has been sanatized for your protection.

I'll ask my original question again:
If your ultimate plan is to "make the overall experience appropriately safe and controlled for everybody." what need will there be for a Teen Grid?

They are not mutually exclusive. It sounds like an area that those over 18 cannot go, just as it is now. Much like the new adult continent will be a place where teens cannot go.

You really should drop the "big brother" rhetoric of "sanitizing the grid for our protection". Mature content will still be on the mainland.

That might be easier if you had a better grasp of the English language, or even a better grasp on basic sentence structure. You wanted to get personal? There you go.

Just how is anyone to avoid 'interpreting' what someone else writes, though? Lol.

Always? Bah...accused of politicking. I am wounded.

Well, what if I say "You know I'm a big proponent of the idea, and we've been saying we'd like to do it for years now, so I'm disappointed that it's just not high enough a priority to have ever been put on the schedule for actually discussion."

So although there really is nothing to talk about regarding the WHEN (cross my heart, hope to die, stick a torus in my eye) I'm always happy to talk about theoretical stuff like WHY...but not here. This is, after all RESIDENT answers, so I shouldn't even be here >_>

Please feel free to stop by my office hour this Wednesday at 4pm SLTime.
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Grasmere/64/160/28
I am happy to share my opinions...plenty to go around

you ever sit down drunk and have a burrito with blue linden? Or a cheese steak? Or talk about why black flag sold out, and when, and why?

I have. Blank eyes and a blank stare, that's all I ever got. I couldn't imagine somebody less into the community in general. Total zero registration. *

He told me he was merging the teen grid into the adult grid in late 2005, but he kept calling them grinds, instead of grids, which I found disturbing.

He's one of the worst tekki-wikki's ever.

On the other hand, if you take people at face value, he'll impress you with his opinions.

my 3cents,

taco

* i can imagine dozens of lindens less into the community than blue is. for the morons amongst you, this is satire, he's a good guy and actually cares about you. Still, quit listening to what you want to hear and start listening to what you are hearing, in general.

Pep's gonna tear you apart for that mistake. LOL



I wonder what would happen if more Lindens saw themselves as residents first, and employees second?

EDIT: Ah hell, what's wrong with me? Mr. Blue Linden, please send me your bear!

I'm sure Blue doesn't know who Pep is, nor should he care

Elora looked across the room at me and said, "Blue posted in your thread."

<insert w00t here>

OK, so Blue came in and said, in no uncertain terms, it's not an action plan. That's good enough for me. I *still* want to know what the purpose of all the age verification stuff is if residents on the grid are all over 18 ... and I'm hoping it's corporate sponsorships and an end to unverified accounts. Good stuff, that.

As I read the stuff on the adult continent I didn't see a darn thing that said ALL avatars have to get verified. Only those that wish to visit the Adult continent need verify and so far the verification process seems to be pretty liberal (payment info used is enough).

Realistically short of someone walking in to LL offices to prove who they are there is no good way to keep kids out even from the adult continent(even showing up might not be enough, looks can be deceiving). I know when I was a 13 year old ball of hormones with feet it would not have been difficult at all for me to snag dads credit card and drivers license. (FYI that was more than 30 years ago ). I really question if this exercise in the long run won't boil down to a massive PR campaign to upgrade Second Lifes image, because it certainly will not keep determined kids out.

QFT... many it seems dont read fully whats been said by the Lindens and I would be verified to enter adult regions but of course I wont, since I am a child av.

I do wonder if the teens would raise a stink if LL decided they were going to make the teen grid the new mixed age area ?

All of us pre 6/6/06 folks would be verified by default and a heck of alot of accounts that started as free since then would as well.

It's a choice to visit that area or not. It isn't a requirement. People are losing track of that somewhere I think.

I don't know if the kids would, but their parents should.