Taking land answers where they are needed: Inworld.

*Applauds and joins*

Good initiative, Ray! Land transactions are so complex that newbies easily get confused about it.

It would be helpful to have access to some reference materials in-world (read: FAQ notecards). How may one get a copy of that?

FAQ notecards are the next step. May take about a week to pull them together. For now I'm hoping we can just answer questions as they come in.

Thanks to everyone who joined so far. We have 14 experts standing by ready to save the next newbie from setting their land to "Anyone".

Sarah and I created a sign/notecard to get the word out. I sent it in a group notice. I think you can grab the object by clicking on the notice in group info. Again, the name of the group is SL Land Answers Unlimited. If you know a lot about land, please join. And tell the other land experts you know the same. Thanks.

The only thing I ask is that we keep our answers unbiased. If possible. LOL.

A set of notecards would be good.
No matter how well-written, people are going to have questions - even people who share the same language and culture as the writer
Group members might find it less of an imposition to explain the topic by reference to a notecard rather than finding the time to give a brain-dump at random times and intervals.

The process of clarifying the notecards could point to ways in which they could be improved upon.
It is possible that a single topic could be covered by a set of alternative notecards that explain the topic in a different way. There may not be a 'one size fits all' way of explaining things.

I'd suggest that a version number be in the name and content of the notecards. Once they got out into the wild, we could have a situation in which confusion arises because the parties are using very different versions of 'the same' notecard.

I haven't been hanging around the official forums much lately, so would someone please explain these new rules, and why they are in place. Why on earth would we not be able to discuss land prices and such. It's a very valid topic and concern in this game. Maybe I should take this to a new thread. This thread is important and I don't want it derailed.

Good suggestions. And a good time to ask for notecard submissions. If anyone has an area of expertise and wants to take a crack at a notecard, I would be forever grateful.

Send Strife a PM and he will explain it to you. He gave me a good explanation yesterday about how talk about trends and prices can be seen as an attempt at market manipulation, but I deleted it to make room for new PMs. He was quite pleasant and reasonable about it all.

Have you considered asking places where new people go like the shelter or NCI (just two examples) to place a poster with "Don't screw up your next land transaction! If you are inworld and need a land question answered, contact a land expert in the "SL Land Answers Unlimited" group for live help!" ? Maybe even ask to place at some freebie places?

Brilliant!!!!!

I'd join, except I don't know much beyond clicking on the stickies at the top

Would very much go along with the idea of adding notecards and a link to the group to the marvelous Lucrezia newbie kit.

Even if you don't know much, you may still know more than the person seeking help, and it would be a great group to join and listen in on group questions and chats so that You do learn lots of cool things about land.

Why would anyone assert that our beloved resmod makes clandestine policy that only is available in PMs? I think this is a calculated attempt at manipulating my feelings about Strife's transparency and I - for one - will not fall for it.

I need some help with some land I have so anyone that can help me, would be much appreciated.
I have land and need to get rid of it - well long story - but I pay teir for a group I no longer belong to so need some advice.

Ask away here or in world.

I'm not sure about this, so I hope someone who is can correct me if I'm wrong.
Did you leave the group or were you ejected? I'm not sure whether you can withdraw a tier contribution once you've already left, although you'd think this was possible. Can you atually see the land info of the group? If you can, it should show your contribution, which you can then withdraw from that group. Lord, another question: did you also donate land to the group or just tier?

Thanks for the invite Ray - I'm in

Sounds like an excellent idea. I was also thinking that once we start collating information, it might be an idea to put it somewhere accessible, so we can all get to it easily and alter it if needs be - perhaps in the SL wiki for example? We could then periodically copy that information into notecards and distribute them in world.

I think it would also be good form to have some land in world - I've got some mainland tier I can contribute if needs be.

Ray when you get that set up, stick one at the Hangout, we are getting quite a few new people wandering in.

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GUIDE: LAND RENTING ADVICE FOR NEW RESIDENTS
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Key words: land buying tiers renting owning

Hello and welcome to Second Life!

Here is some advice that should make your land buying experience more pleasant.

1. Caveat Emptor - Buyer Beware.
2. You don't need land for Second Life to be enjoyable.
3. Owning land means you have to pay monthly fees.
4. Buy or rent.
5. Plot size matters.
6. Start with Land for the Landless first.
7. Location! Location! Location!
8. You can buy land from Linden Labs directly through the land auctions.
9. Become familiar with land prices.
10. Your Friends can help.
11. Negotiate.
12. Things change.
13. If you have a problem... ask for help.


1. CAVEAT EMPTOR - BUYER BEWARE

Buyer beware. Or at least be aware. Learn what you can about buying land, why you want it, and what you can do with it. The advice in this notecard should keep you out of most land trouble, but in the end you are responsible for your decisions.

2. YOU DON'T NEED LAND FOR SECOND LIFE TO BE ENJOYABLE

To enjoy Second Life you do not need land. Though it can make things much more enjoyable.

Owning land is best if you want to:
* Build permanent structures, like a home or business. The more land you own, the more permanent objects you can have out.
* Have a retreat for you and your freinds that's always available.
* Have more control over what can and can't be done and who can and can't be there.
* Play with the land tools. (Terraforming is a blast!)

3. OWNING LAND MEANS YOU HAVE TO PAY MONTHLY FEES

If you own any land, you will be paying a monthly land tier fee in US$. For details about this check out:
http://secondlife.com/land/index.php
http://secondlife.com/faq.php

4. BUY OR RENT

You can "own" SL land directly. If you own SL land, you will need to pay monthly tier fees to Linden Labs.

OR

You can pay for the use of land from other players on the mainland. You can also "rent" land from other players in island sims (off the mainland) which is more like ownership; you will have access to land control features. Neither of these two options require you to have land tier, so you will not need to pay tier fees to Linden Labs. For more information about renting read this notecard:

?

5. PLOT SIZE MATTERS

Avoid buying lots smaller than 512 sq.m. at first.

Considering that the smallest amount of land rights you can pay for is 512 sq.m., and that you can get 512 sq.m for cheap through the First Land program, you should only seriously consider buying a 512 sq.m. lot at first.

6. START WITH LAND FOR THE LANDLESS FIRST

Linden Labs has a program where new residents can buy 512 sq.m. for L$512. You can only do this if you have not previously owned land. More details at: http://secondlife.com/land/index.php

At L$1/sq.m. you can't beat this price, and you can eventually sell this land for a tidy profit. But before you do sell your land, learn what it is you can do with SL land. This is a great opportunity to do that.

To find first land:
1. In the SL, click the Find button at the bottom of the screen.
2. Select the Land Sales tab.
3. Select First Land from the dropdown menu.
4. Click Search.

This should list the First Land you can buy. Sometime all the first land is gone; Linden Labs adds more land regularly so you shouldn't need to wait too long for new land to show up.

7. LOCATION! LOCATION! LOCATION!

When you finally decide to buy a new lot, go look at it. What are the neighbors like? Is it conveniently located for you? Do you like the geography? Does the sim host many events (which cause lag)? Is it close to your friends or favorite hang outs? Or what ever other considerations matter to you.

8. YOU CAN BUY LAND FROM LINDEN LABS DIRECTLY THROUGH THE LAND AUCTIONS

You can buy land directly from Linden Labs through the land auctions. Some plots available at auction will be priced in Linden Dollars (L$), and others in US dollars. The auctions are located at:
http://secondlife.com/auctions/index.php

9. BECOME FAMILIAR WITH LAND PRICES (L$/sq.m.)

Before you buy (or sell) land you really should look at the Find->Land Sales window. Look at what land prices for the rating and size you want are. Also, look at the auctions to see what land is going for there.

You should not have to buy at the highest land prices to get land you want, if you research land prices before hand.

10. YOUR FRIENDS CAN HELP

If you let your friends know you want to buy land, then they may help you find a good lot at a good deal. And it might be nice and close to your friends.

11. NEGOTIATE

The price listed is not fixed. The land owner can set the price to whatever they want. If you ask nicely, the land owner may lower the price for you.

12. THINGS CHANGE

Even after you buy your land, you will find that Second Life changes greatly from day to day. One day your neighbor is an empty lot, and the next it may be an ivory tower or an ugly box.

If you don't like what's there now, wait around, it might change to something new in a couple days.

13. IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM... ASK FOR HELP

The advice in this notecard does not cover everything that can happen in a land deal. If you have a problem ask for help. Ask your friends, Live Help (help menu->Live Help...), on the forums, e-mail [email]support@secondlife.com[/email] or if worst come to worst, search for someone online with the last name "Linden". They are employees of Second Life and are there to help you.

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GUIDE: GROUPS AND LAND
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Key words: groups land tiers parcels deed dwell traffic

Groups can own land just like people. Groups must have their land tier donated to them by members of the group.

The donated land tier is "borrowed" from the person donating the land tier to the group. The land tier donation can be added or removed from the group at any time. The land comes out of the donor's account. The donor still pays for the donated land.

Example:

Suzie Fairplay has a land tier of 1536 sqm in her account (Premium account 512 sqm and an additional 1024 sqm). She donates 512 sqm to her group "The Big Q's". She now has 1024 sqm available to use as she pleases, and the 512 sqm she donated to the group is available to the group to use.

Groups get a 10% land bonus just for being a group. This means they own 110% of the land tier donated to the group.

If the donations of land tier to the group is not enough to cover the actual land owned by the group, a Linden will forcibly seize some of the group land to bring the owned land to within the donated land tier. Usually Linden Lab gives 7 days grace on this.

Example:

If the group has 2048 sqm of land donated to it, they can own up to 2253sqm of land (the 10% bonus). Let's say the group owns 2128 sqm of land, which is below 2253 sqm. Let's say Suzie takes back her 512 sqm land tier donation. The group now only has 1690 sqm of land tier available, less than what it can support. Within 7 days, a Linden will confiscate some of the land (hopefully the'll work with the group on it) to bring the group into compliance.

ANY OFFICER of the group can sell the land to whomever they wish (even themselves for L$0) without prior approval from other officers or members. There is nothing you can do if a rogue officer "steals" all the land from others. Period. So be careful. All land sale proceeds of group land are equally distributed amongst all group officers and members.

All L$ paid monies for daily dwell is paid equally to all group officers and members. All dwell used to calculate Developer Incentives is split amongst those people donating land tier to the group, according to how much they donate. Group officers and members count towards dwell on the land (where on private land, the land owner doesn't count towards dwell).

Only group officers can plant trees and grass on the land.

All land options that cost L$ (e.g. FIND listings, L$30 a week) are charged equally to all officers and members of a group.

==============================================
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The notecards in the Sticky, two of which I've pasted above, have been given out inworld for years now. They used to be given out at official Welcome Areas like the Ahern Morris Dore Bonifacio one. They might make a good starting point for an updated version.

There is an existing group that frequents areas where new users are, namely the Second Life Mentors and other Second Life Volunteers. Mentors give out notecards and refer people to groups for more information.

Arranging to have the group made known at NCI and the Shelter and other such places might be worthwhile.

One way to distribute the information would be to make an information dispensing object for land sellers to put out on display.

For what its worth, guys - When it comes to new residents, notecards & URLs are easier to pass out than groups.

I'll pass the word around the Shelter about the land questions group - but for maximum effectiveness, I'd create a blog about it - then folks can be linked to the blog. It could even be a group effort if a bunch of you contributed.

Notecards are good too, however they can get dated really easily, and confusion can abound as old & new notecards are mixed.

1. Caveat Emptor - Buyer Beware.

Doesn't just apply to clothes.


2. You don't need land for Second Life to be enjoyable.

Only if you want to be a property owner.


3. Owning land means you have to pay monthly fees.

On a regular basis.


4. Buy or rent.

Or just don't bother.


5. Plot size matters.

Make sure the plot's bordering onto something. Either land or water.


6. Start with Land for the Landless first.

A bit like treasure hunts: Clues for the clueless.


7. Location! Location! Location!

And once you've found a parcel with a location set a landmark.


8. You can buy land from Linden Labs directly through the land auctions.

I asked them about the plot at the bottom of their campus. No response yet.


9. Become familiar with land prices.

I go by: L$ per square metre. Proven and tested.


10. Your Friends can help.

No, they couldn't. Asked several of them. In fact I added complete strangers to my friends' list just for this purpose. And even that didn't work.


11. Negotiate.

Only with a partner.


12. Things change.

All the time mate.


13. If you have a problem... ask for help.

Don't ask me though. Haven't got a f**** clue.

There are classes for new residents, aren't there? Perhaps the information resources, in whatever final form they take, could be made available to the instructors or institutions for distribution.

Meanwhile, if the back slapping is over, somebody did actually ask for some advice (#36).

Great idea, Ray! *applause*

I know little about land so am not a person to be answering questions. (In fact, it appears that I can't even spell it - I searched for "SL Land" and "Land" in Group Search today and can't find the group, lol) (Yes, I sorted alphabetically!)

But I can write a bit, so if you need to pull together info from several sources and find yourself without time Ray perhaps I can help there.

Maybe the kiosk on your land, Ray, can serve as the distribution point for the current master set of notecards? And I do very much like the idea of a blog as well. Then you could post fully annotated screen copies, much clearer than a pile of text.

Some folks' learning style is not friendly to reading documentation. So having a group people can ask questions of when they're actually in the throes is great.

I am overwhelmed with your responses (in a good way).

Thanks to everyone who joined. It's a bit of a commitment to allow yourself to be annoyed occasionally with a newbie contacting you or a group chat IM.

Everyone please go to the group info notice and take a copy of the sign/notecard giver and rez it in high traffic areas. Brenda, please put a copy somewhere at the hangout.

Keep the ideas, notecard type stuff and URLs coming.

No donating tier, please. I've had several offers of free locations for an info kiosk. I don't think we would ever need more than 1024 and I can cover that. I'll have a place for it shortly. When we have a central place for notecards, etc., I will post the location.

Time to admit my ignorance: What is NCI?

We have our first parody! This project is a success. And screw helping that person in post #36. I'm only in this for the back slapping!

NCI= New Citizen's Incorporated, a greta place to be an Noob without being asked for sex *usually*. freebies, sandbox, classes, and dressing rooms. My first SL home, back in the Dark Days.

You know, you could see this as a live help thing too. You can ask in IM stuff like, "Hey I'm looking at such and such a parcel. Is this a good price, etc..."

Are you sure that you still donate tier to the group despite having left? If so, this sounds like a bug to me that ought to be reported on JIRA.

Anyway, as per design the "Land and L$" tab is disabled for non-members of a group. Will you be able to join the group again? If so, you can withdraw the tier. If not, you should raise this issue to LL through the Solution Finder (support ticket).

In the worst case you could temporarily withdraw your payment information and default on the tier, but I don't think that this would be wise.