Facebook and SL: the balkanization of our world?

Only because people are stupid.

There's no difference between downloading a huge, bulky application and running it from an icon on your desktop and downloading a huge, bulky application and running it in a browser window as a plugin... except that the one that runs in a browser is going to waste more of your time on technical problems because you and the developers have to waste more time dealing with the differences between different browsers and different versions of the browsers and interactions with other incompatible plugins.

The only advantage of hiding the app in a browser is that sometimes switching to another tab makes for a more effective "boss key".

Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public. (H. L. Mencken)

But I disagree a bit, too. I think a slimmed-down browser-resident client app could be highly attractive for SL specifically, even if it only ran on certain levels of certain browsers (notably, webkit-based, as Microsoft seems destined to fade from the smart phone scene). It's an increasingly complex distinction, though, with various hybrid models for deploying iPhone apps (for example) mixing Cocoa and web components.

I do agree that voice is a pretty good example of balkanization. The different camps may not be armed, but they're about as separate as anyone ever imagined.

What Argent said. The divide most definitely exists. What didn't happen was for it to be highly unbalanced, so that there are plenty of opportunities for non-voice users, but there are certainly places where non-voice users are either explicitly unwelcome or implicitly not able to feel part of the community. However, the pro-voice advocates never pushed on the basis of huge numbers of new users, the way the Facebook, etc. numbers are thrown around.


The set exists, whether or not we can agree upon its contents. That's true here as well as in-world.

For example, there's a value here for posting into the correct forum. That doesn't mean everyone agrees with it, nor does it mean that people who violate it are punished. Most users, even those who've never posted before, have an understanding of this. It shows up when people say "I tried in the other subforum, but ...". When someone responds "This belongs elsewhere ...", that's largely accepted as an appropriate response to help people understand and apply that particular value.

Identifying common values in-world is more difficult, because of its size, but not impossible. Moving away from TP hubs is an easy example, one that takes a while for newcomers to learn, but most do eventually. Understanding that different groups have different policies with regard to notices and chat is another. It may seem like a meta-value, in the sense that the specifics are different from group to group, but there's a real value underneath: people are expected to find out and conform to the group-specific policies. Not everyone does, but that doesn't mean it's not a common value.

The question relevant to this particular thread is whether or not the wall between SL and RL is part of the SL culture. That doesn't mean there can't be specific places in SL where the wall comes down, e.g. sims specific to RL universities. But how many places in SL are there where it's considered appropriate to ask for or even demand specific RL information without a specific need due to context (such as the university case)? Are there places where it's considered the norm for everyone to provide RL occupation? RL location down to the state or city? RL marital status or sexual orientation?

I've been to my share of gay clubs. I've never been asked if I'm gay in RL, or even male, though I avoid the subset of gay clubs where voice is the norm. I might touch upon such issues once I've established a personal relationship with someone, and I might volunteer such information if it's appropriate to the banter, but I've never seen it considered a common behavior, let alone a requirement to be socially accepted. The same is true for stores or other RP sims. I don't have much experience with straight clubs, but I've never seen anything to suggest they're different in this regard.

Showing people ALT-TAB is one of the quickest ways for me to earn brownie points with co-workers. And that has nothing to do with hiding from the boss. It's because we spend most of the time inside a custom app that is heavily keyboard-biased, so anything that substitutes a keystroke for a mouse action is an improvement.

You are not going to get anything resembling Second Life or even Google Lively rendered using a scripting language in a browser. Something that lets you trundle around blind or at best with some kind of 2.5d approximation of the avatars, yes, but to actually provide a 3d environment you're going to have to implement the application as a plugin.

And, no, it's not at all complex. An application using an HTML rendering engine is still an application. If you have to download something containing compiled code, you're not doing anything useful by forcing it to run inside a browser, unless there applet is designed purely as a rendering enhancement... not a complete app. And even then some examples, like Acrobat Reader, are iffy at best.

The idea of facebooking anyone in sl is another flaw in the general security of the web. I compartmentalize myself. And divide real "jig" from s l"jig" for one simple reason: we're not that far apart.

And YOU arent that far apart from your own avs. Despite what you may think. Keep a distance from your sl-inity; that way you'll keep sane and productive and not have to wonder about Llamas, dog-face boys and other odd denizens of the metaverse ploking themselves out of your Blackbery at inopportune moments.

I'm not particularly fearful of an influx of FBers into SL. I believe it's all part of their "three ring" strategy that I talked a bit about here: /327/ff/328463/1.html

There are a number of existing disparate communities within Second Life already, and while I acknowledge that a sudden influx of FBers may make for some growing pains, I think it will be a necessary evil for LL to find new ways to grow their user base. Some of this thread almost reminds me of real life fears about change - like with immigration as an example. The sudden arrival of a difference culture can be very difficult for those that have been around for a while but I think the benefits outweigh the risks. Perhaps it's my own experience of living in a very multicultural city, but I kinda like that on any given weekend in the summer I could potentially go out for dinner at an Ethiopian restaurant, hop on the subway and hear 20 different languages, go to a huge Pride street festival and then go catch an Italian film - or I could just chill and stay within my own little community and order in pizza. Having all these options available to me makes for a rich and diverse place to live and play that I very much enjoy.

I agree, Joshooah. But I'm not sure that an influx of social networkers will be a source of diversity - I worry that the overall effect will be homogenization.

We in the US have a nose for that sort of thing, can't imagine why.

Depends on which ones come (if any), I guess.

If I could get a blackberry to ploke llamas out of it I'd get one today.

Can't you already do this, with a picture of the botanical gardens which is a link to an SLURL?

RL has all sorts of biases built into our interactions.

I might say that half of you would cross the street or call the police if you saw my RL brothers in your neighborhoods, and your reaction to me would not be much better.

You might deny it, but a lifetime of dealing with that in RL from people who likewise deny it, makes me unlikely to believe that claim - even if you were genuine. And even if you did not do it, I and others have been conditioned to expect these forms of negativity from each other in our RL selves.

And this is not the only form of bias SL can free us from.

SL frees some of that up because we're not dealing with RL identities of each other. We can socialize as human beings and escape the nasty biases pushed upon us by the societies we come from - to an extent.

We can choose to disclose and connect in RL, or choose not to. But we can make the links that would provide that opportunity before RL biases set in to prevent them.

That might be dishonesty... But I rather like being able to relate to people for who they are and not what they are. Its just something that is so rarely an option in RL.

Facebook may be more akin to how we all deal with each other in RL, and that may make it more successful, but that does not invalidate the need, especially in a globalized world, for a social medium that can escape RL limits.

We need to remember that SL survives because it is a social medium, not because it is a commercial medium. The money that trades hands on SL goods is just a side effect that is only viable as long as the social value of SL as something unique remains intact.

I look at the first life tab of people who I hang out with on a semi regular basis. I also look at their friends' first life tab when some one new in introduced to our group. I estimate that under 5% of people actually use it. I would say that 60% of the people who do put something on that tab use it in a FaceBook like fashion.

Damn you Argent. Now I'm going to be looking at everyone's first life tab to come up with some numbers that are more solid. Thanks for feeding my compulsiveness.

I, too, favor LL efforts to increase the numbers of Residents.

I just think that those efforts are misdirected. (They should be targeting people fascinated by immersive 3D environments [who'd be willing to install the viewer, buy the appropriate machine/graphics card, etc.], rather than people who enjoy the 'two minute here, two minutes there' style of posting on Facebook or Twitter.)


edit: spelling

Just taking a few moments from real and read this and I must say this is well said. I totally agree. I dont want anyone to know my real self. My identity is no one's business in this metaverse. The anonymity that sl affords is akin to metro London or New York or Toronto - I'll avoid anyone who "knows" me if I can. And here all barriers (or most barriers) are down. One barrier is intellect and knowledge, for sure. But for teh most part we are literate and intelligent. Race and national biases are mainly forgotten (although they do still exist). Femae/male gender divisions are weakened. Let's keep reality away. As someone said earlier, the more we know each other, the more the homogenizing impact of teh American majority is gonna change the "bite" sl used to have.

I have declared time and again that I am opposed to voice and webcam. I dont want any of you on my facebook either: Pi*s off.

/me sneaks into Jig's Facebook and steals her shoes.

Thanks to FaceBook, I've gotten in touch with people I havent heard from in 20 years. Also got to inform my parents that my still-married sister was having an affair with a guy in another state who is now in Afghanistan, while her kids are left back here with my unemployed brother-in-law. I also got to "friend" people I worked with long ago, who took my advice and did something with their life.

Altho.... I totally avoid those stupid games on Facebook.

SL will never have the numbers like similar worlds and social networking sites because of the very nature of SL. You have to download a program that makes intensive use of your computer. If you don't have a fast processor, good graphics card, the most memory your computer can handle, and high speed internet, it does not work well enough for you to enjoy. Even then, if 40 people are in one sim, it slows down considerably. What does this mean? Time and money. You have to have the patience with the technology and a good deal of disposable income for your virtual life. SL would have to stop being SL, in order for the numbers to increase.

SL can only appeal to a limited segment of the market, who find the characteristics of SL appealing despite the lag and who can afford the costs.

I have returned to and reread this post 3 times, and I finally figured out that I enjoy it so because this has been one of my biggest joys in SL. Talking to, getting to know people whom I would never say more than "hi" to in RL, because if we had first met each other face-to-face, the contact would never have gotten far enough for us to know each other.

eta: (Mostly because of the stereotypes *I* hold. There is no way to prevent forming and holding stereotypes: it's a survival trait. But you are right, they narrow our social possibilities.)

Thank you, Pussycat.