Facebook and SL: the balkanization of our world?
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Nika Talaj
now you see her ...
Join date: 2 Jan 2007
Posts: 5,449
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11-13-2009 15:59
For years, LL executives have been obsessing about Facebook. It seems the two just keep tangoing a little closer to each other ... a leeeeetle closer ... now the MOTD is about a Facebook SL sharing site. Yet, if CEO M can be believed, LL DOES know the advantages SL has over traditional social networking, at least on a statistical level: From: Mark Kingdon, LL CEO, 10/16/09 No, we're not in competition with social networks -- just the opposite. We've created official Second Life outposts on several. You can connect with us at Facebook.com/SecondLife or Twitter.com/SecondLife, for example. And, there's a very active community on Flickr and Plurk. Plus we're working to add social tools that enable Second Life to be more tightly connected to the social networks most popular with our users.
While people are connecting, socializing, and sharing with each other in Second Life, the virtual world is in its essence very different from social networking sites. It's a rich and immersive three-dimensional experience, enables synchronous communication, and has its own vibrant virtual goods marketplace where users will conduct more than $500 million worth of user-to-user transactions this year. Residents spend an average of about 100 minutes inworld each session, and about 40 hours in Second Life each month. Here's my question: it seems to me that an influx of Facebook users into SL would greatly stimulate a very narrow section of the economy, those who create photoreal clothing and furnishings. Maybe there are Facebook users yearning to be speaking wolves wearing waistcoats living in aerial dungeons, but it seems more likely that Facebookers would think it cool to hand a video of their living room -- or one from Architectural Digest! -- to someone and have them recreate it in SL. SL has already split into two communities that rarely touch: RL business/education, and those here for entertainment. There has been a lot of paranoia about this, people ranting about business taking over SL, but it just won't happen. The two will remain segregated, and the bulk of LL revenue will continue to be from entertainment. But ... entertainment of who? Will there be a 3rd separate community, RWOLers? (real world on-line-ers?) I fear that the bulk of people online at any moment will come to be the RWOLers (augmentationists), imported from social networking sites like Facebook. In this scenario, those who LIVE in SL will be eased into a twilight existence - no longer who LL means when they say, "the residents". And, since RWOLers will generally not spend a lot of time and attention on SL, the richness of our world may slowly drain away, or be confined to ghettos which new arrivals will never find. Thoughts?
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Brenda Connolly
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Join date: 10 Jan 2007
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11-13-2009 16:11
From: Nika Talaj For years, LL executives have been obsessing about Facebook. It seems the two just keep tangoing a little closer to each other ... a leeeeetle closer ... now the MOTD is about a Facebook SL sharing site. Yet, if CEO M can be believed, LL DOES know the advantages SL has over traditional social networking, at least on a statistical level: Here's my question: it seems to me that an influx of Facebook users into SL would greatly stimulate a very narrow section of the economy, those who create photoreal clothing and furnishings. Maybe there are Facebook users yearning to be speaking wolves wearing waistcoats living in aerial dungeons, but it seems more likely that Facebookers would think it cool to hand a video of their living room -- or one from Architectural Digest! -- to someone and have them recreate it in SL.
SL has already split into two communities that rarely touch: RL business/education, and those here for entertainment. There has been a lot of paranoia about this, people ranting about business taking over SL, but it just won't happen. The two will remain segregated, and the bulk of LL revenue will continue to be from entertainment. But ... entertainment of who?
Will there be a 3rd separate community, RWOLers? (real world on-line-ers?)
I fear that the bulk of people online at any moment will come to be the RWOLers (augmentationists), imported from social networking sites like Facebook. In this scenario, those who LIVE in SL will be eased into a twilight existence - no longer who LL means when they say, "the residents". And, since RWOLers will generally not spend a lot of time and attention on SL, the richness of our world may slowly drain away, or be confined to ghettos which new arrivals will never find.
Thoughts? I agree with this, I am seeing it already. I have a FB account for my SL self, and while the majority of the people I contact are either SL avatars or at least people who use SL sometimes, I do come across the RWOLers who don't get the "fantasy" angle and immediately go for the prying and asking for RL pics and info and "I don't want to know a cartoon I want to know a real person. Hamlet Au wrote this recently on his blog: http://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2009/11/how-to-make-second-life-truly-mass-market-part-1-deep-integration-with-social-networks.htmlFrom: someone How To Make Second Life Truly Mass Market, Part 1: Deep Integration With Facebook
The latest official economic stats for Second Life are now available, and they tell a mixed picture: while user-to-user transactions continue to grow, the absolute number of unique users does not. After a steady growth period at the start of the year, monthly unique repeat SL users have plateaued to around 750K. In his report, Linden Chief Product Officer T. Linden suggests this flat growth is the result of the new policy (imposed last May) banning Traffic-gaming bots.
That may well be the case, but what's undeniable is that Secnd Life is still struggling to become a virtual world with mass market status. By way of comparison, consider today's largest virtual world: YoVille, from Zynga, a web-based MMO played in Facebook and MySpace. Only launched in May 2008, it now counts nearly 20 Million unique monthly active users on Facebook alone. (Making it much larger than not just World of Warcraft, but web-based MMOs like Habbo.)
There are a number of reasons for YoVille's rapid and sustained growth, but one in particular stands out: Deep integration with leading social networks, especially Facebook with its 300 million active users. This explains how YoVille managed to grow so speedily, for its appeal is not just the virtual world itself (cartoonish and simple as it is), but the desire to play it with Facebook friends. "At their most fundamental level," Mark Pincus, CEO of Zynga, recently told me, social network-based games like YoVille "are games that you can play with real people with real identities."
I recently wrote about how mass adoption is so crucial to Second Life, and at the time, I promised to offer suggestions for making that possible. Taking YoVille's success as a reference point, my first recommendation is this: Second Life needs deep integration with Facebook.
I don't mean a mere SL-related Facebook Application (those exist already), but integration across all channels, starting with the very first SL signup page, which should accept Facebook account credentials.
Doing this would associate new Residents with their Facebook page, which generally contain many of their real life details. In that way, the subsequent SL avatar would have a subordinate status, after the owners' real name and autobiographical details. (As with my YoVille avatar friends, at left, who are automatically linked to their Facebook profiles.)
Philip Linden often says that someday, Internet users will feel obligated to use an online avatar that's somehow distinct from the actual owner. However, with the largest virtual world (and other leading social games) the exact opposite is the case: the most popular avatar types are explicit extensions of an already existing real world identity.
Or to put it another way: to gain mass growth, Second Life may have to abandon the expectation that new users adopt a whole separate personality. As YoVille and other top social games (which now count 100 million+ users) suggest, most people prefer avatars that are firmly linked to their first lives.
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Qie Niangao
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Join date: 24 May 2006
Posts: 7,138
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11-13-2009 16:37
What are they going to *do*, though, after they've bought their Architectural Digest living room?
They might start role playing, of course, and then it's just a matter of time before they're scampering around Gor in silks and swords and panther outfits.
Perhaps they'll just hang out with other Real Worlders in special clubs for the imaginationally challenged. I just don't think SL offers much advantage for that kind of socializing, however, and any it does offer depends on that "synchronous communications" thing that Kingdon mentions--which is just inconvenient, really.
There are some "gateway" activities that might benefit. Some of these Facebookers must have played a video game sometime in their lives, and SL may remind them that such a thing as online play is still possible. I'd guess that virtual in-world vehicles and sports--even fishing and table games--might get more attention from this group. Those damned chickens are kind of like Farmville anyway.
Or as you suggest, they may just not spend much time in SL, and never develop an interest in going any deeper. In that case, however, I don't think they'll just have shorter in-world sessions; I think they just won't keep logging in at all.
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Nika Talaj
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11-13-2009 16:58
From: Qie Niangao What are they going to *do*, though, after they've bought their Architectural Digest living room? Dude, you guys on Zindra really lead sheltered lives, dontcha? *poke poke* They can have sex in their RL (or at least social networking) identities! With people they've been flirting with for years online, or with their absent spouses, or with their RL boss, student, priest or other type of untouchable! (And the private investigators who follow them, doubtless) Young folks can extend their Facebook page to experiment with 3D fashion design in their RL identities, and invite friends and local RL boutique owners in for a fashion show. Weight-watchers groups can get together in SL with slender gorgeous avatars and use the new body images to inspire each other - remember what it was like to enjoy shopping for clothes, etc.. Physically dispersed like-minded musicians can form a band and perform. Couples can try out rearranging the furniture in the SL reflection of their RL home. Ambitious sharers, the types with fully categorized volumes of online photos, can build tributes to Michael Jackson or their most recent vacation (yes, I've always wanted to build Arches National Park in SL). (hit enter too soon) Of course, they could do all this now in SL. They could even link it to their Facebook page. But they don't, because they don't know about it. All LL has to do is line up a good provider network for RL extensions from Facebook, give Facebook a cut of SLX purchases from Facebook avatars, and bango --- everyone will know.
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SuezanneC Baskerville
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11-13-2009 17:44
YoVille may have many members, although one should keep in mind that the figures given might include a bunch of people that are signed up for it but don't actually do much with it, such as me.
YoVille might be called a virtual world, and it might actually be a virtual world, but if so, then that shows that there are fundamentally different types of virtual worlds.
YoVille has game aspects that are totally lacking in SL.
YoVille does not require a download and installation of a program to use it, unlike SL. It works in the browser.
YoVille does not have any unusual graphics requirements, unlike SL.
YoVille does not have to download a data intensive customizable 3D environment.
Factors such as these play a part in the large registered membership. It's not all due to integration with social network sites such as Facebook or Myspace.
If LL allowed people to register for Second Life with their Facebook identity, creating an avatar with a new style of name, such as "Sheighla McEntire of Facebook", perhaps with a link to their Facebook profile in their SL profile, and the means to send messages, status updates, snapshots, etc. directly to Facebook from with the SL interface, and to read their Facebook News Feed and Live Feed in the SL interface, and to invite their Facebook friends into SL, I suspect SL would pick up some new members.
This doesn't address the need to install a viewer use a large amount of bandwidth to download the 3D environment.
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Jenshae Werefox
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11-13-2009 17:51
My Farcebook account has less information about me than my Second Life profile. In fact it has nothing. I just used it to contact a few select people out of my past, while enjoying the anonymity and peace of not being reached by any others.
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Ayesha Lytton
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Join date: 30 May 2007
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11-13-2009 20:01
There is a lot to do in SL for more RL-oriented people. First of all, just because someone isn't hiding their RL info, doesn't mean that they won't want to create an idealized avatar or play a dragon in a roleplay sim. Other examples of activities RL-identity folks might (and do) enjoy in SL:
-Building/creating -Live performance (many SL musicians promote their RL identities) -Going to live music, theatre, etc. events -Education and classes -Some roleplay games/sims -Spending time with friends and lovers who live far away in RL
...in other words, pretty much all the same things that RL-hiders like to do, except probably the more extreme sex stuff.
I just don't see how Facebook integration would negatively change SL, aside from helping it grow exponentially (with possible technological growing pains). Other than a very tiny, very loud sub-group that feel threatened because they're not willing to be honest about themselves, most on SL will be unaffected. No, I don't want everyone on SL to have my phone number...but moving towards real name association with avatars will reduce griefing and increase personal accountability, both of which would be tremendous improvements in the culture here.
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Isablan Neva
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11-13-2009 20:08
In thinking about it...the only thing that would actually tempt me to join Facebook would be an SL widget I could put in that would show The Botanical Gardens and allow the user to click on it and automatically be prompted to load Second Life (or download.) Not unlike the way you could import your "room" in Lively as a widget and plug it in someplace.
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Brenda Connolly
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11-13-2009 20:09
So everyone who isn't willing to attach their RL identity to their avatar for all to see is automatically dishonest?
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Raymond Figtree
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11-13-2009 20:12
From: Brenda Connolly So everyone who isn't willing to attach their RL identity to their avatar for all to see is automatically dishonest? I don't know. Are they, Steve?
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Brenda Connolly
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11-13-2009 20:18
From: Raymond Figtree I don't know. Are they, Steve? Beats me, Myrtle.
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Raymond Figtree
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11-13-2009 20:19
From: Brenda Connolly Beats me, Myrtle. ROFL. You still got it. 
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Ceera Murakami
Texture Artist / Builder
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
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11-13-2009 20:24
From: Ayesha Lytton Other than a very tiny, very loud sub-group that feel threatened because they're not willing to be honest about themselves, most on SL will be unaffected. No, I don't want everyone on SL to have my phone number...but moving towards real name association with avatars will reduce griefing and increase personal accountability, both of which would be tremendous improvements in the culture here. That attitude right there is what will drive most of the roleplayers and imaginative types who made SL what it is today screaming for some other place to meet. The assumption that anyone who doesn't want their real-life name and personal info associated with their SL avatar must be "not willing to be honest about themselves" is the most divisive and harmful attitude that an incoming Facebook user could have. I am VERY honest about Ceera. I'm honest that she is a FICTIONAL CHARACTER, and not in any way a representation of a real-world individual. I'm honest that I am NOT in any way interested in going out on Real World Dates with the Real People behind other people's avatars, and that I am happily married in RL. And that is ALL any person in SL needs to know about my real-life. They don't need my name, my gender, my birthdate, my zodiac sign or any other personal details. If you aren't setting up a contract to pay me substantial amounts of money to do work for you, then you don't need my real information. Period. What "moving towards real name association with avatars" will do is strip away one of the most important social elements in SL for many of us who are NOT seeking a date with a real person, but who are here to enjoy a fantasy world. Because it strips away the believability of the personnas and costumes that make this place useful as a fantastic roleplaying environment. Would the average movie or TV show somehow be "better", if all the actors had to use their real-world names and accents while putting on their shows? If the actors in "The Lord of the Rings" were not allowed their makeup and costumes, but had to perform while all looking like Humans in 20th-century street clothes? Would Darth Vader be even a fraction as frightening if a picture of the actor in the faceless costume was just a mouse click away? Well, that is PRECISELY what you do to the roleplayers when you insist that their real-world identity has to be welded to their avatar, and that if they don't do that, they are somehow "dishonest". You destroy the fantasy that there is a Gollum, or a Galadriel, or a Gandalf, or Smaug the Dragon... because all you see is an normal looking actor or actress delivering their lines in a flat Southern California accent. If you want to use your real name for your avatar, and to make an avatar that looks just like your real self, and want to use SL just as an extension of your dating scene, be my guest. But don't burn down the libraries, the movie theatres, and the Broadway stage just to make room for your idealized dating scene. Because MANY residents in SL are NOT here for that dating scene. For that matter, if all you want to do in SL is "be your real self", why bother with a 3D virtual world and an Avatar at all? Why not just go in person to the local singles bars, where others are looking for a date? Or use a webcam and skype to meet prospective dates on-line?
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Lias Leandros
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11-13-2009 21:50
From: Nika Talaj Here's my question: it seems to me that an influx of Facebook users into SL would greatly stimulate a very narrow section of the economy, those who create photoreal clothing and furnishings. Maybe there are Facebook users yearning to be speaking wolves wearing waistcoats living in aerial dungeons, but it seems more likely that Facebookers would think it cool to hand a video of their living room -- or one from Architectural Digest! -- to someone and have them recreate it in SL. Agreed that the Facebookers are from the Short Attention Span Theatre. So SL Content like 7 Seas Fishing, Bloodlines and other scoring role play games would be something that this crew would be quickly immersed in. Once these game creators code a way to deliver their scores to their Facebook accounts and send other goodies and content - then there will be a great influx of Facebookers and their Linden dollars to the grid.
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Nika Talaj
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11-13-2009 22:07
From: Ayesha Lytton Other than a very tiny, very loud sub-group that feel threatened because they're not willing to be honest about themselves, most on SL will be unaffected. No, I don't want everyone on SL to have my phone number...but moving towards real name association with avatars will reduce griefing and increase personal accountability, both of which would be tremendous improvements in the culture here. I agree that RL info for the purposes of personal accountability on the part of those who are seriously involved in commerce within SL would be very good indeed. However, your characterization of anonymity as inherently dishonest is very naive. Part of Philip Linden's vision for SL was to offer a platform for personal development - for people to be freed to reach beyond their current RL identities for personal growth. SL works for that, enabling those who are hampered by phobia or life circumstances or physical disability or even just crippling shyness to encounter others, to try new roles and new traits, in a less demanding environment than reality generally offers.
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Brenda Connolly
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11-13-2009 22:14
From: Nika Talaj I agree that RL info for the purposes of personal accountability on the part of those who are seriously involved in commerce within SL would be very good indeed.
However, your characterization of anonymity as inherently dishonest is very naive. Part of Philip Linden's vision for SL was to offer a platform for personal development - for people to be freed to reach beyond their current RL identities for personal growth. SL works for that, enabling those who are hampered by phobia or life circumstances or physical disability or even just crippling shyness to encounter others, to try new roles and new traits, in a less demanding environment than reality generally offers. There is nothing wrong with sharing of RL details among business associates or those you may wish to have a personal relationship with between the parties involved. That can be done now, in a whole host of ways where it stays between those involved. One's RL being public knowledge for all to see is not a good thing as far as SL goes.
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Ayesha Lytton
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Join date: 30 May 2007
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11-13-2009 22:23
Ahh, but actors don't hide their real names - they might use a stage name, but millions of people know what they look like normally, if they're married, etc. Yet they can still take on a role that is very different from their normal personality and/or appearance. One that comes to mind as an example is Charlize Theron in Monster. She did a great job playing an unattractive, deeply disturbed killer - despite everyone knowing that she's gorgeous. It's called suspension of disbelief - and skilled acting/roleplaying. It should be even easier in a virtual world , where we can know what someone looks like in the back of our minds, but we still see the avatar.
I don't particularly think everyone should have to reveal their real name in their profile, and certainly not addresses and phone numbers (to anyone but LL) - for basic safety reasons if no other. But Facebook has similar settings - most content is only viewable by friends. SL needs options and settings for people to link and disclose what they want. But I do think when that happens, there will be a move towards more RL info, and overall, I see that as positive.
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Scylla Rhiadra
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11-13-2009 22:24
From: Nika Talaj I agree that RL info for the purposes of personal accountability on the part of those who are seriously involved in commerce within SL would be very good indeed.
However, your characterization of anonymity as inherently dishonest is very naive. Part of Philip Linden's vision for SL was to offer a platform for personal development - for people to be freed to reach beyond their current RL identities for personal growth. SL works for that, enabling those who are hampered by phobia or life circumstances or physical disability or even just crippling shyness to encounter others, to try new roles and new traits, in a less demanding environment than reality generally offers. This. SL isn't Facebook, wasn't designed to be Facebook, and hasn't developed in the same directions as Facebook. I actually have no particular objections to people who essentially USE it as "Facebook with 'toons" (and I have quite a few friends who do), until they start getting offended that everyone else doesn't follow suit, and provide fairly detailed RL info along with (often) accompanying verification (such as voice). What such people seem to fail to understand is that it is THEY who are trying to redesign -- I might even say distort -- SL by demanding compliance with a set of criteria that are, in fact, actually quite alien to the nature of this app as it was designed and intended. I myself am not, I suppose, really very immersive, in the sense that I don't RP, and am reasonably free with RL info (within the limits of safety), but I am not here to set up RL dates or "network" with people in RL. I am here because I am excited by the kind of boundless potential for experimentation, creation, and exploration that SL offers, and that is possible, in part, precisely because of the way in which RL and SL can be kept distinct and separate. If I wanted a VW with RL social networking, I'd be in Yoville instead. (Ick!)
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Scylla Rhiadra
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11-13-2009 22:25
From: Ayesha Lytton But I do think when that happens, there will be a move towards more RL info, and overall, I see that as positive. I am still not clear why, Ayesha?
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Tegg Bode
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11-13-2009 22:33
It's doable now all we need is a HUD that puts peoples RL name, number of friends and groups above their head in Hovertext, and we then know exactly who to avoid in SL 
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Ayesha Lytton
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11-13-2009 22:57
From: Scylla Rhiadra I am still not clear why, Ayesha? Accountability in business dealings. Fewer scammers. Fewer content thieves. Possibly less deception within personal relationships - but that happens on the internet in general, so it might not make much difference. And honestly, a scaling back of some of the more unsavory aspects of SL, especially places that glorify violence against women.
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Ponsonby Low
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11-13-2009 23:50
From: Tegg Bode It's doable now all we need is a HUD that puts peoples RL name, number of friends and groups above their head in Hovertext, and we then know exactly who to avoid in SL  What a good idea! I wonder who first posted that here, as a way that LL could attract the Facebook/Twitter crowd??? Anyway: yes, this actually WOULD be a smart thing for LL to offer as an option on the SL registration page that Facebookers would get to from Facebook ads for SL. A bigger problem in attracting them is that the 'networking' thing is about not only Keeping Score on number of Friends, but also about CONTACT with those friends. Posts back and forth, etc. But in SL...they register; they land in some Hub; they don't see anyone they know; they look at the Map and see vast vistas with no green dots; they say "what fun is this?!?!?!" and never log in again. LL could create a smallish Facebook Continent (maybe no more than nine sims?) where all who register in SL from a Facebook page could be sent. Eventually they'd realize they could explore all of SL, but in the meantime they'd be in a place in which there would be lots of green dots, all of whom are Facebook enthusiasts. They might go for that.
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Ponsonby Low
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11-14-2009 00:00
From: Nika Talaj Part of Philip Linden's vision for SL was to offer a platform for personal development - for people to be freed to reach beyond their current RL identities for personal growth. SL works for that, enabling those who are hampered by phobia or life circumstances or physical disability or even just crippling shyness to encounter others, to try new roles and new traits, in a less demanding environment than reality generally offers. What about any of that would be derailed by the use of real names? I mean, if my real name were over my avatar, what would stop me from being a furry or Vampire or whatever? The only thing that WOULD be derailed (I think) is gender masquerading. And if that were deemed enough of an attractant, then LL could give the option of using initials for first name. I'm not saying I think that real names should be made mandatory. I'm definitely NOT saying that the 'only reason' for opposing the use of real names is 'dishonesty'. Personally, I would prefer not to use my real name. And this is not because I'm pretending to be something I'm not---it's because in RL, I'm the kind of person who has no bumper stickers. I'm the kind of person who doesn't have a Facebook or My Space page. I'm reticent. I'm not into personal display. BUT....if LL said "your avatar name will be changed to your real name and that is the only option"....I'd go with it. (Because I'm addicted to SL.^_^)
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Rhonda Huntress
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11-14-2009 00:03
From: Ponsonby Low BUT....if LL said "your avatar name will be changed to your real name and that is the only option"....I'd go with it. (Because I'm addicted to SL.^_^) RL names are not unique where SL names are and pretty much have to be.
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Ponsonby Low
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11-14-2009 00:09
From: Rhonda Huntress RL names are not unique where SL names are and pretty much have to be. True enough. How does Facebook deal with that? However they do, is probably the way LL would, too. EDIT: I went over there and under Find Friends, input "Mike Brown"...3 pages, all "Mike Brown"...no "Mike Brown49" or such. Obviously they must be coded differently, but users don't see that (just the different URLs for their respective pages.) LL could do that. There could be 74 "Mike Brown" avatars, but each would have a different coding for Inventory Giving, etc. (I'm NOT saying I think it's a good idea. Confusion would abound. But...it could be done.) (Surely they've discussed this problem in their little half-real-half-virtual board room....)
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