Question for the Vamps
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Gabriele Graves
Always and Forever, FULL
Join date: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 6,205
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01-15-2009 17:50
From: Argent Stonecutter Legally and historically, yes, but practically?
It'd be like arguing whether Linux was UNIX.
Well, ah, actually... pretty much everything that wasn't scripted would drop right in, and you can bet that they'd be 100% scrip-compatible within a month. Lol, well it has been far longer than a month and there is no sight of 100% script compatibility so far. The reason why I am defining SL in such precise terms is because we were discussing whether or not SL was a game, If you take SL to be software plus content then sure it can be seen as a game but the same software devoid of content then No, there are no game aspects to it. |
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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01-15-2009 18:05
From: Gabriele Graves Lol, well it has been far longer than a month and there is no sight of 100% script compatibility so far. They haven't had a gridsworth of SL content dumped on them for free, either. From: someone The reason why I am defining SL in such precise terms is because we were discussing whether or not SL was a game, If you take SL to be software plus content then sure it can be seen as a game but the same software devoid of content then No, there are no game aspects to it. Of course it's a game. It's a game AND a platform, and a floor wax, and a dessert topping. SL is a flaming sword that burns ALL THE WAY TO THE POMMEL. SL is a snowmobile racing across the tundra. SL is a watermelon. SL is a queer bird, and a whole bestiary of metaphor, analogy, and synechdoche. SL is five pounds of flax. |
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Gabriele Graves
Always and Forever, FULL
Join date: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 6,205
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01-15-2009 18:37
From: Argent Stonecutter They haven't had a gridsworth of SL content dumped on them for free, either.
Of course it's a game. It's a game AND a platform, and a floor wax, and a dessert topping. SL is a flaming sword that burns ALL THE WAY TO THE POMMEL. SL is a snowmobile racing across the tundra. SL is a watermelon. SL is a queer bird, and a whole bestiary of metaphor, analogy, and synechdoche. SL is five pounds of flax. Scripts have been going over since the beginning where possible. It seems that compatibility is still not that high on their agenda as they have added new scripting stuff which is different to the original lsl. How is it a game inherently? You bring game there but there is not game inherently. There is content creation but nothing else until the grid has stuff that people make. |
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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01-15-2009 18:47
From: Gabriele Graves Scripts have been going over since the beginning where possible. Nobody writes code they don't need. There's been little content that depended on 100% compatibility. No incentive to make the OpenSim scripting environment bug-for-bug compatible. If that was changed, then you'd see coders working to a different agenda, and you'd see coders who didn't care about OpenSim suddenly taking an interest. From: someone How is it a game inherently? Same reason ZMachine is a game. |
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Gabriele Graves
Always and Forever, FULL
Join date: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 6,205
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01-15-2009 18:51
From: Argent Stonecutter Nobody writes code they don't need. There's been little content that depended on 100% compatibility. No incentive to make the OpenSim scripting environment bug-for-bug compatible. If that was changed, then you'd see coders working to a different agenda, and you'd see coders who didn't care about OpenSim suddenly taking an interest.
Same reason ZMachine is a game. Sorry but I disagree on the scripting thing and nobody said bug-for-bug, just documented function for documented function would be nice. There has been little content because of the lack of compatibility. Lol, ZMachine is a game "engine", sure if you want SL is a game "engine" too, but that by itself does not make it a game in the same way a car "engine" is not a car and by the same way a car engine can be used to drive lots of non-car related things if you so desire to make it do that. |
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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01-15-2009 19:02
From: Gabriele Graves Sorry but I disagree on the scripting thing and nobody said bug-for-bug, just documented function for documented function would be nice. There has been little content because of the lack of compatibility. There's been little content because all the creators are sticking to the Linden grid because (1) they get paid, (2) that's where the customers are, and (3) Linden Labs at least gives lip service to copyright protection. From: someone ZMachine is a game "engine" So SL is a game engine, and Linux is a UNIX kernel. |
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Gabriele Graves
Always and Forever, FULL
Join date: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 6,205
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01-15-2009 19:10
From: Argent Stonecutter There's been little content because all the creators are sticking to the Linden grid because (1) they get paid, (2) that's where the customers are, and (3) Linden Labs at least gives lip service to copyright protection. Not all content is created for profit, scripts included. I would expect there to be more portage of people taking the free scripts they have made over but this is not the case due to compatibility - who wants to have to tweak everything they have? From: Argent Stonecutter So SL is a game engine, and Linux is a UNIX kernel. Glad you finally agree  , I have no idea what that has to do with Linux or Unix however. |
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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01-15-2009 19:30
From: Gabriele Graves Not all content is created for profit, scripts included. No, but it's a hell of an incentive. If it wasn't for the opportunities for profit, there would be a fraction of the content in SL. From: someone Glad you finally agree You finally quit denying Buddha Nature. From: someone I have no idea what that has to do with Linux or Unix however. Linux is a "UNIX Engine"... the kernel. It takes the rest of the system to make it useful... it's still UNIX. "SL is a game" doesn't mean "SL is just a game", but "SL is a game" is still as true as "SL is a platform". |
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Gabriele Graves
Always and Forever, FULL
Join date: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 6,205
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01-15-2009 19:34
From: Argent Stonecutter SL is a game" doesn't mean "SL is just a game", but "SL is a game" is still as true as "SL is a platform". OK, how do you play an SL that is devoid of content? |
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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01-15-2009 19:42
From: Gabriele Graves OK, how do you play an SL that is devoid of content? How do you boot Linux without a shell? |
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Gabriele Graves
Always and Forever, FULL
Join date: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 6,205
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01-15-2009 20:23
From: Argent Stonecutter How do you boot Linux without a shell? I swear you are just arguing for the sake of it. If you have an environment that allows for varied games to be made (a platform or environment) and played then it is the games that you make and create that are games, not the environment. If this were not true then Quake and all the other *games* made with the Quake engine would be classed as one game, when in fact it is the content of each game that is the "game" as it is the part that you play, the part that gives meaning and goal. If I gave you access to an empty warehouse in RL and you played a variety of sporting games in there, nobody in their right mind would try to say the warehouse is the game. It would just be the environment that facilitates the playing of games. |
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Mira Kalinakov
Registered User
Join date: 6 Dec 2008
Posts: 56
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01-16-2009 01:17
From: Solar Legion One: I don't use nor 'play' Bloodlines or any other Vampire game within SL.
Two: What part of "You have no say over who gets to use publicly accessible information concerning your Avatar" could be made any clearer?
Have a problem with these databases? File a JIRA entry to totally obscure the avatar key from all sensor scans and all other methods of script detection ... and break just about every vendor, rental box, owner control only attachment/object etc. in Second Life while you are at it. No. I have no problem with databases, and no problem with vampires, or any kind of roleplayers for that matter. Good for them. Each to their own. Whatever floats your boat. I do however have a problem with irritating spamtards who cant string a sentence together and think we are all extras in their retarded fairyland fantasy, and a problem with a game that promotes that kind of behaviour - rewards it even. It's that simple. It's the principle. I want NOTHING to do with it. Unless it's me mocking or making fun at their expense. I don't give two shits what people do in SL, as long as they don't assume I'll play along, or everyone else is fair game for their own set of rules. It's a very basic outlook, easy to understand, and I don't get why people need to keep spelling it out. |
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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01-16-2009 03:26
From: Gabriele Graves I swear you are just arguing for the sake of it. If you have an environment that allows for varied games to be made (a platform or environment) and played then it is the games that you make and create that are games, not the environment. Why are *you* still arguing about this? I agreed that "game engine" is a fine term to use. You asked what Linux had to do with it. I was answering that question. IN ADDITION, I wanted to make the point that "X is a game" does not mean "X is just a game". Apparently using "SL" for "X" bothers you, so I'll repeat the comment again with a completely generic "X". "X is a game" does not mean that "X is just a game". "Linux is a kernel" doesn't mean that "Linux is just a kernel". When you install a copy of Ubuntu and refer to it as Linux only the extreme Free Software Foundation fanatics will tell you "no, you're wrong, that's not Linux, that's a GNU-Linux based OS using the Debian distribution". Linux is a kernel, but it's *reasonable* to refer to a Linux based distribution as "Linux", or say that the Linux-based-distribution version of SL is a "Linux version" even though there's many distributions of Linux it's not compatible with because they use different userlands -- they have different content. |
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Gabriele Graves
Always and Forever, FULL
Join date: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 6,205
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01-16-2009 03:44
From: Argent Stonecutter Why are *you* still arguing about this? I agreed that "game engine" is a fine term to use.
You asked what Linux had to do with it. I was answering that question.
IN ADDITION, I wanted to make the point that "X is a game" does not mean "X is just a game". Apparently using "SL" for "X" bothers you, so I'll repeat the comment again with a completely generic "X". "X is a game" does not mean that "X is just a game". "Linux is a kernel" doesn't mean that "Linux is just a kernel". When you install a copy of Ubuntu and refer to it as Linux only the extreme Free Software Foundation fanatics will tell you "no, you're wrong, that's not Linux, that's a GNU-Linux based OS using the Debian distribution". Linux is a kernel, but it's *reasonable* to refer to a Linux based distribution as "Linux", or say that the Linux-based-distribution version of SL is a "Linux version" even though there's many distributions of Linux it's not compatible with because they use different userlands -- they have different content. No I am not bothered at all and as long as you agree with my previous definition then this conversation is over. I thought you still disagreed with me even though you were making a concession about the "engine". I cannot comment much on this Linux/Unix comparison as it is outside my knowledge and so it is unclear from that whether I can agree with your statement or not. If we agree then lets move on hmmm? |
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Solar Legion
Darkness from Light
Join date: 9 Dec 2006
Posts: 434
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01-16-2009 05:31
From: Ceka Cianci you should really just look up the definition of a game and stop trying to get blood out of a turnip. all you have to do is strip everything away to the beginning to see what SL is.. everything you mention came after.there were no roles no games no anything until the people in the world made them... just a big blank grid with a chat box an editor and a duck walking avatar with a bad paint job.. your games came after they were created by the residents inside the virtual world.. call it what you want now but the basics never change.. it's an interactive 3d program. on that note i exit this thread  What it started out as is of no concern to this topic: What it is now and has become IS of concern.
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Obscurum est Eternus
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