You know what makes me sad?

Amen, Sister!

Zactly!! Sometimes I use voice, most of the time I don't. Sometimes I share things about my RL, sometimes I don't. Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't. I don't expect anyone else to feel or do any differently. But they do. Oh well. That's life -- real and unreal. (Note my store slogan.)

My point was not that everyone should stop using voice, but that it wasn't as simple as "if you don't want to use voice, don't use it", and that a big part of the problem is the behavior of people who DO use voice.

It reduced the number of places and communities I could remain part of. When I tried to keep hanging out in some of the same places, I got harassed for not using voice. So I quit participating in those communities.

Yes, of course, but do you understand where I'm coming from? You're still not accepting that the introduction of voice has caused a problem for many people, one they can't get away from just by "not using voice".

In other words we can *leave communities we were part of*, or we can *use voice*. There is no third option. That's not "we can't type", but we're still being forced into a choice that we resent having to make.

Can you not recognize that?

that is just the same as any other choices you make, a very popular one is someone who chooses to be a furry are not welcome in most if not all gor areas...
should they not be furry just to be able to be in a gor sim? no... they make a choice... furry or gor...same can be said for many many aspects of SL, NOT just voice

you make a choice... voice or no voice, if a place insisted on voice, even I, a proactive voice user, would not go to that place.

kids is another example

heck size period! I have a short avatar, I am not welcome in some places because people tend to think I am a kid, does it ruin SL for me, nope.. I just move along... it is plenty big

I can see that we will not agree on this topic so at this point I am just going to wish you a nice day..

You could tell the people who insisted you voice to stop being 'donkeys' - but donkeys rarely know they are, let alone admit to it.

(Substitute non-PG-forum word.)

Not comparable. At all. To be comparable you'd have to come up with some way for a bunch of communities to suddenly all turn Gorean at once. Doesn't happen. Not even one-by-one.

And if a bunch of communities you were part of and had friends in simultaneously decided that you were too short, you'd be OK with that?

I'm not asking you to agree, just *understand*. This is not "choices you make", this is "choices forced on you".

I'm astonished. According to LL 50% of residents are using voice. It appears that many of the people in this thread do as well. Am I in some alternate universe? None of my friends use voice and the clubs, etc that I go to don't use voice.

last month I walked around with my voice activated for about a week and I think I heard two people talking back and forth.

I'm not anti voice or anything, I just prefer typing.

Did the question specify 'how often'? Some may have ticked yes, if they had EVER used voice at all.

Also people might be talking in voice IM.

That means you're counted as one of the residents using voice!

LOL. You got me.

if my friends decided I was too short then they were never friends to begin with

I see it as a choice I make, you do not, we disagree, end of discussion, I really am not trying to convince you of anything but I feel as though you are trying to prove something to me, of which I do not agree with....

I'm just trying to get some indication that you're not so completely dead inside that you can't even understand why people might be upset. That's all.

understanding and agreeing with it are not the same

I understand why it will bother some people, but I do not agree with the get rid of voice approach

make sense?

(the part I do not get, is the "get rid of voice", not the I dislike voice because of "insert reason"

(and I feel the "dead inside" comment was totally uncalled for and way over the top)

I haven't asked you to agree with anything. I ask, "do you understand", and you respond by belittling my position. That implies more callousness than I am comfortable trying to excuse.
Is it so hard to see that getting rid of voice would eliminate the problems that voice continues to cause?

If they removed voice it would not it would eliminate your issues with voice, then we would have more problems because those who want to use voice, will be upset because voice is gone.
(Take voice away, you take away the choice to use it, by leaving voice you leave both choices there, use it, or not use it, now tell me which is the fair way to go?)

everyone can not be pleased...

I did not belittle you, I can not help it if you took my comments that way. That is not the way they were intended. (and I suppose you think implying that I am dead inside is not belittling?)

Why can you not understand that the following is my opinion on SL, including voice?

There are plenty of things in SL I dislike, and refuse to go to specific places because of such things, but do I say that those things should be removed from SL so I can better enjoy myself? Nope, not my right to do.
I just choose where I go, and what I do, who I speak to, and avoid those places, things, people, etc that I do not like.

We all have a choice. I just do not know why you think you don't when it comes to voice.
You can choose to not turn on voice, you can choose to go to places that do not use voice, you can choose to meet and befriend like minded people who do not use voice.
It is not like people are forcing you to turn on voice, no one can force you to do that other than you. The grid is a big place I am sure you can find people and places to fit in with your wants and desires.

*throws hands up and walks away*
(feel free to reply but I am going to try damn hard to not respond as I feel this will just continue to go back and forth, I have stated my point of view, as that is all it is, a point of view, an opinion, you have done the same, we disagree... nothing more can be done)
you will not change my mind on how I see this, nor do I expect to change yours.

I think one reason why some people think no one uses voice is because we mostly do so in private calls. Public voice can indeed be really annoying. I text chat more than I voice, btw, because I'm often dealing with tenant inquiries etc. and those come through text. But during most of that I am often voice chatting privately with a friend. I only talk to 2-3 people on voice regularly, but they are among my closest SL friends and I don't think that's a coincidence. It's easier and faster to get to know people on voice than it is in text.

I am not anti-text at all. I met one of my best friends in a newsgroup 14 years ago, and chatted with her and several other people on IRC for years. I eventually met almost all of them in person and we got along just as well. In SL, I have many friends who don't have mics, and I'd never not be someone's friend because they don't use voice, ESPECIALLY if it's due to a disability. I know many people can't hear, and others may have speech that is hard to understand. I did know 2 people who avoided voice in order to hide something about themselves, because they feared judgment from others. When they finally explained it, I understood, but I also felt slightly hurt that it took them so long to trust me. It turned out that one of them, though, often lied and/or was evasive about all kinds of things. It was a pattern of dishonesty and I eventually ended my friendship with that person. Unwillingness to use voice was not the cause, but it was a symptom of the larger problem. BTW both of these people often expressed anti-voice attitudes, which I am also seeing in this thread.

My friends who don't have mics are not anti-voice. They love the idea but simply haven't bought or can't afford a headset yet. Or they think voice is fine but they're not that interested in using it - they're indifferent. But there seems to be this group of rabid anti-voice people who COULD use voice but don't WANT to, and who like to attack anyone who uses voice and dares to publicly proclaim its virtues. They like to derail threads like this one where people were discussing our disabilities and how they impact voice use, by saying things like I'm anti-deaf and wouldn't want to be friends with Treasure because she can't use voice. TOTALLY UNTRUE. I do often have to wonder if these people have something to hide. Otherwise, why would they care so much?

I'm not arguing for the removal of voice, that's obviously not going to happen. I'm asking for an understanding of why people would WANT it removed. If you can't bend so much as to say "yes, I can now understand why some people would wish it gone" then you shouldn't be surprised that I'm sufficiently exasperated as to wonder what else you're missing.

I've explained what I want to hide. Many times.

1. My voice sounds funny to me. I don't even like talking ABOUT my voice. It's embarrassing. Be happy you got me to confess THAT.

2. I don't want to hear a three foot tall cat or tiny hedgehog talking like a six foot linebacker. I have a mental image of what people sound like, and voice breaks immersion.

Hey, why restrict this discussion to choice in sl? Why not start a campaign named "Don't talk to me!" in rl. You could write on little wipeable white boards for face to face communication and just txt on phones.

Pep (Doesn't sound like a girl)

Did you miss me saying this?
Do you not see I understand where people who do not want to use voice are coming from?

Just because I understand it, does not mean I have to agree with how they feel, just like how you do not have to agree with how I feel about using voice.

And please stop assuming I am missing something, I have already said I can understand why people do not like voice, your comment implied that you want it gone, regardless of what others might want.

I missed you saying you understood why they wanted to see voice gone from the grid, yes. I'm still missing that.

I have yet to meet anyone that doesn't think their voice sounds funny or strange.

Do you not talk to people in RL? same thing, same voice I am guessing.
no reason to hide just because you do not like your own voice.

As for not wanting to hear how someone else sounds, fair enough, for some folks SL is roleplay, and when they see a three foot tall cat or the tiny hedgehog, that is what they see...

For me, SL is not roleplay, SL is real people sitting behind computers and just like in RL, I speak to them, they hear me (if they choose to) and if they do not have voice, I text

I do not get upset with anyone for not wanting to use voice, however I do get upset when ppl tell me I am evil, sick, stupid, dumb, a bitch, (that c word), whore, you name it, it has been said to me, because I use voice.
THEY are the people I get upset with, and the attitude you are showing me here, is giving me that same feeling I get from the people who say those things to me in world because I am a voice user.
funny part is, they are on voice, but not listening or talking so they say, just to see who is using it
I found that out when asking them why they are on voice if they are so against it (saw the dot over their head)
*shakes head* some folks....

I understand "why" I just do not understand why they think that they should be the ones to get what they want while those who want voice end up with no choice.
(there are a lot of things I would like to see gone from the grid, however I do not talk about it, or attack others for it, or try to make folks feel badly because it is something they wish to experience)

you do not seem to get that yes there is a choice, use it or not... take it away, no longer a choice

I dunno how else to say it... what do you want to hear from me?
you want me to say yes you are right, right about all of it, voice is bad, banish voice and everyone who uses it?

THAT will not happen, and we will not see eye to eye on this, so... let's just drop it now ok?

I think we derailed this thread long enough, and I for one would like to see it get back to how folks use the grid in ways that improves their lives, be they disabled or not...

Not on the phone, which is where it sounds worst, unless I can't help it, no. And giving a talk at a conference a few years back had me bolting antacids.

Have I said that? I've said you seem to lack empathy for not being able to understand why some people find voice so divisive and constricting just because it exists that they wish it wasn't there. Not "agree with" or "accept their arguments", just "understand". It seems so little.

Not me. I'm not going to let Linden Labs count me as a "voice user" in their lying statistics.
I would like to know who's using it because I've stood there like a goof talking to people on text, waiting for them to get back from being AFK, when they were on voice and ignoring text chat the whole time. Many times.

Speaking of tiny concessions. When Linden Labs refuses to make such a tiny concession as to allow people to tell when they're making fools of themselves like that, I have to wonder what THEY'RE hiding:

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1317

I can think of very few situations where it is practical for voice to be used in open chat in sl (because of the normal feedback, cutout and comprehensibility problems of group aggregation of voice contributions) except strippers in girly clubs and discussion groups that are competently chaired, so it is unlikely that you are going to come across voices on a random basis. The large majority of voice use will be in private IM.

Pep (As, I am sure, is the large majority of text communication)