You know what makes me sad?

My ex Wife was born with Cerebral Palsey. She has never walked and never will walk.

It truly is a joy in my life seeing her here in SL. Dnacing, running, snowboarding, swimming, riding a train .... doing all the things she never has and in many cases never can in RL.

But then again she is probably the most undisabled disabled person you will ever meet. HEr favorite game is opening the doors for walking people at the mall to watch them freak out.

My firend who is deaf has left teams in games because people have tried to insist she uses voice, in SL she has no such fear, I knew her for around 3 years before she reavealed to me she was deaf after I told her of my vision impairment.

I am disabled, and the last thing I want is pity from anyone. I choose not to use a wheelchair in SL because I enjoy doing all the things I can't in RL. However, I have no desire to hide my disability from anyone - it's mentioned in my First Life tab and all of my close friends know. I have several other friends with disabilities too. I've been involved with the disability community in SL, but not extensively, mostly because my business keeps me too busy.

BTW I really like using voice because I don't type very quickly and my arm gets tired easily. It is a lot faster explaining things to people in voice!

I'm sure it is. Unless, of course, they are deaf. /me grins....

After getting hassled and in one case banned from a parcel (for being an "alt" ) because I don't use voice, I think that shoe fits more paws than mine. Yes, people DO get harassed and ostracized for not using voice. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

lets not turn this into another voice/non voice thread... its a choice. A few years back in SL there was a disabled group who would log on through their teacher(not sure of terminlogy) I so enjoyed listening to the joy and wonder they had in SL... kinda makes a lot of our rants immaterial.

Not always.

The thing that seems to be missing toy that makes some sad about voice is the same jerks that damn near drove a friend of mine away from SL presuring her to get on voice, to get a mike etc over and over till she just made an alt for awhile and stayed away from her favorite places...

For Shard it wasn't a choice to speak on voice, she couldn't

People need to realize some out there don't have a choice on using it. They can't hear or speak.

This is what I don't understand. Then why tell? It's no ones business but your own. So unless you're looking for sympathy or pity why volunteer your personal info? What sense does it make?

Because they believe it's the right thing to do, I suppose. It's like letting people know you're a guy in RL when you're playing a blonde bombshell in SL. Different people are different, and have different levels of comfort with the amount of their real life they expose in SL. Some people don't like revealing anything. Some people don't like HIDING anything.

Why does anyone provide any personal information? The reasons people provide information about their lives vary, regardless of the nature of the information disclosed. It can be an expression of self, an acknowledgment of community, or simply a salient piece of information to future friends. I keep my affiliation with D/deaf SL groups viewable as a means of finding others with deafness. Neither I nor anyone I know provides this information in order to garner sympathy or pity.

*LOL* I promise I am looking for, nor do I need, either one. I brought it with me into my current SL incarnation, because I have an understanding of what's needed. I can actually help and support new people trying to learn to navigate SL with disabilities, because I am one of them. Knowing this helps them open up to me, to talk freely, it gives them an ease because they feel they are talking to one of their own, who 'gets it'. I often know more than they do about how to navigate SL with a disability, how to find rl resources to help you, how to use the technology to their benefit. True it's my own business. However, if no one ever advocated for another, the accomodations we DO have wouldn't be there. It's a choice to share it or not, neither is wrong. I am not role playing here. If I was, I might agree with you more. But, choosing to share the information that this issue is part of who I am, is not a plea for pity. My life is great, and I"m happy in both my lives. I feel like I"m doing something worthwhile in SL and being open about the hearing loss is just part of that. Once, I was doing a presentation on 'How to Communicate with People with Hearing Loss in SL'. At the end, voice, gender, all that stuff came up in questions. A person asked me 'SInce you don't voice, how do we know you're female'? So I sighed, turned on voice, proved I am female, and turned it off again. Why that's important, if he's not sleeping with me, is a puzzle, but it seemed to be important to him.

This.

well the same goes the other way too, I have been harressed because I use voice

This is not a debate about voice vrs non voice, it is about how people treat each other, and sadly, regardless of what people choose to do or be, someone, somewhere will have an issue with it.

(just because some folks may not see it, or do not accept that it happens, doesn't mean it doesn't happen)

I never said I do not believe it happens, I just said I do not see it.

I agree, and sadly it works both ways. I know someone who can not type (for specific reasons) so they use voice, and I have seen people be downright rude to them, because they do not type, to the point of childish name calling and threats of abuse (RL as in if I found you in RL I would do such and such) all because they used voice and could not type.

If folks would just leave other folks alone and let them do what they want, SL (heck even RL) would be a much better place to be.
If someone doesn't like what another person chooses to do, then they can just move on, trying to force your desires onto another is just simply wrong.

Here in Second Life, the lame are made to walk, the deaf to hear. The old and infirm are made young and vigorous again. This is not a cause for sadness, but rather for rejoicing.

Well if you've read some of the posts here you will know: Not everyone sees such things as a reason for "sympathy or pity." It is simply part of who they are.

Reasons vary for sharing personal info but "sympathy or pity" are not the only ones! Being part of a community, for instance, could be one reason.

I'm for keeping RL and SL separate but I do not condemn anyone who thinks otherwise - so long as they do not insist I play things THEIR way. And isn't diversity what SL is all about after all.

That should include diversity in choices such as whether to voice or not to voice, and whether to share or not to share.

Yes, I get that. I'm answering your question: "[why do] those who dislike voice or choose to not use it for whatever reason, feel the need to tell the rest of us how evil it is and that it should be removed from SL". Because we get harassed for not using voice. Because the introduction of voice has significantly reduced the enjoyment we get from Second Life. Your message implied that it was just us horrible anti-voice people who were responsible for the conflict. If you think I misunderstood you, then perhaps you could have been clearer in the first place.

IF people would just stop insisting others use SL their way, a lot of the conflicts might be avoided. Adult continent...voice...first life page....

And me, no, I would NEVER say that voice is evil and should be removed from SL; For those for whom voice is truly a choice, that's great! I'm just wondering, I guess, those who 'prefer' voice, for whatever reasons that you do; would you refuse to typechat with me, because I don't voice? Would my reason for not voicing have anything to do with your desire to get to know me, or not? Why or why not? Would knowing that not voicing is not a choice for me make a difference to you, in your choice to interact with me or not? I try very hard to dispel the idea that deaf=stupid. I'm sure (I *think* I'm sure) that most people don't see me as a person of low intelligence. So, with that assumed, correctly or incorrectly, would you choose not to know me, because I don't voice and you prefer voice? You could be missing out on some cool people doing that! (that's the 'royal you', not any 'you' in particular, there).

Well you make it sound like because you have had a bad experience, that the rest of us should stop using voice, which is downright silly. That would be like me saying that because I have been harassed for using voice then everyone should use it, so no one would harass me

I dunno how voice would reduce your enjoyment of SL. Is it because someone griefs you because you choose to not use it? hell I get griefed all the time, for a number of reasons and no reason at all, that doesn't make my enjoyment of SL any less, I just report and ignore the problem person(s). I do not go around telling folks SL is evil because griefers are here, and that everyone should stop playing.

Voice is not evil, no more so than flexi is evil, or sculpts are evil... to imply or say outright voice is bad and evil is silly... it is the folks that use it for the wrong reasons (or abuse others for choosing to use it or not use it as the case may be) they... those people, they are the problem, not voice.

(to say voice is bad and should be removed, because you choose to not use it and some folks felt the need to harass you about it, is like saying sculpts are evil and should be removed because some person used them to make a cage and cage you and orbit you with it)

Do you understand where I am coming from?

I am not saying you do not have a right to your opinion, everyone does, however what makes you think that just because you had a bad experience with voice, that it should be removed, thus taking away something that others enjoy? I guess that is what I am not understanding about some folks when it comes to anti voice.

Now... if voice was being forced, as in we could not type and had to use voice, that would be a different kettle of fish, but... it is not like that, we have a choice, we can turn it off, set our land to be no voice, we can even choose if we wish to only use voice and thus interact with people who only use voice, or we can use to never use voice and refuse to interact with folks who use voice, or refuse to go to place with voice enabled.
I dunno about you... but I like having choices, rather than no choice at all.

god you said what I tried to say in that stupidly long post of mine, in just a few words.

Thank you

(I need to learn to be less wordy LOL)

Of course not. It would also not make a bit of difference in wishing to meet you, know you, talk with you in text, any of the other possible questions. There would be no difference at all based upon whether you are hearing or not, in real life.

I use voice sometimes. I don't use it always. Sometimes I prefer to be able to cough, sip, or other such things without worrying whether I left my mic on (I do still check anyway). Also it isn't always possible for myself or for others to voice for various reasons. Noisy traffic, guests, what-have-you.

Voice is NOT the end-all be-all of Second Life. More pertinent to your post - I text chat sometimes with someone in SL who is deaf and who wears a tag saying so. (It's the only reason I even know it.) I do not ask people about their real lives - I assume if they wish me to know they will make things known without being prompted.

It's someone's personality and how they treat others that makes me want to know someone in either 'life.' Oh and for what it's worth a second cousin is deaf and wears a hearing aid - but mainly relies on lip reading, which she taught herself. Her hearing aid doesn't help all that much anyway.

A lot of times people who have been seen as 'different' in life are the most interesting people to talk with.

ETA: Thank you Rhaorth, but your posts are interesting to read.

I choose to use voice, and for me that is my choice, although I do not use it all the time.
(Mainly when working as it is way way easier to explain things via voice than it is via typing for me, however if someone texts a questions and they are not on voice or are connected but can not hear for whatever reason, I will reply via text, I have no problems with that)

However it doesn't stop me from text chatting with someone, and I respect that they choose to not use voice. Makes no difference to me why they choose to not use it and I never ask why. That is just how it is. Won't change my view of who you are, won't change my desire to get to know you (or not as the case may be).

Heck I have been logged into voice, text chatting with someone, while they too are logged into voice, and usually about the same time, we both notice the other is logged into voice, make a comment about it in chat and continue using text hehe (even though we both know the other does speak on voice from past experience)

very welcome and yours are too

you express my feelings just in different words than I do.