libsecondlife - read the site

WTF so now this thing can take things from the box????????????!


Sheesh, are these as full perms as well?

If not it won't be long before they are, since the libSL project appears to still be alove and still working with the blessing of LL.

Okay, copybot can't yet copy scripts, correct? So how about making your prims dependant upon scripts to exist. If the two are seperated from each other, the prim simply 'poofs'? It's got to be doable, the difficult part will just be in trying to figure out how to do it.

A prim without a script has no script to tell itself to de-rez.

I'd like to weigh in on this.

To make a long story short, I'm as disgusted with the CopyBot events as you all are. I thought I knew these people, and their betrayal hurt. There are those who say "everyone in libSL can't be trusted", but the truth is that most of the people in libSL had nothing to do with this. This whole stink was caused by a very small group of people (3 that I know of) who should never have done what they did.

However, instead of continuing to try to punish those responsible (I think they know now that their behavior was inappropriate), I've chosen another course. I'm trying to build a community coalition to create a system of safe and ethical software development.

What I'm hoping to do is provide developers a framework and a system they can use that will help identify themselves as safe and reliable developers, and give the community a way to determine who they can trust and who they can't. My eventual goal is to have a coalition of developers and content creators who can work together to make Second Life an even better place to be.

If you would like to make a difference, instead of just futilely screaming in to the void, as it were, I invite you to join me in this project.

PM me here, IM me in-world, or e-mail me (wilsontp at gmail.com) for specifics. If I can get enough people behind this, we can change the world - or at least the Second one.

Dr Tardis: Does LibSL still work towards the goal of a full-featured open-source SL client? As long as it does I fail to see how you can offer any security, since modifiying that for theft will be trivial. Even CopyBot is very simple, limited code... it just relies on all the hard work done in LibSl to make it feasible.

I'd also love to know who is in charge of LibSl now - the contact person on the website is listed as "Baba Yamamoto" and there appears to be all sorts of drama and revolutions going on there.

Nepenthes: I'm not talking about a group explicitly for libSecondLife. I want to build a coalition of potentially all SecondLife developers.

Yes, I believe that libSL will eventually be a fully functional, open source client.

One of the things I want this group to figure out is how we will reach the goal of a more secure SL. We have to take for granted now the fact that prims, textures, animations, and sounds are no longer safe and can be copied at will. My goal is not to find some technological means of preventing this, but rather build a list of trusted developers to that you know who isn't likely to develop a ToS breaking program. One thing we would develop is a code of honor, so to speak, that would guide future developers' actions.

When a ToS breaking program does show its ugly head, the things that this coalition has developed can be used to help fight the spread of the program and identify the culprit before major financial losses take place.

What I'm talking about isn't a product, it's a process. We need a group that represents a broad cross section of the community to make this work. Ideally, I'd like every single developer to be part of this coalition.

With a large enough community body and support from Linden Lab (which we would need, if this will work in the long run), we may not prevent future exploits, but we will limit the scope and remove the ones responsible.

Hmm, I don't see how it could do this. Copybot can only copy objects that would be downloaded by the client anyway. I fail to see how the copybot source code (which was available for a few days following the free in-world advertising campaign ) could even be modified to do what you suggest. Objects in box don't exist in world. Their coordinates haven't been downloaded by the client. They can't be requested by an avatar (ie. copybot) that doesn't own the box, nor can the UUID of any textures on objects inside. So I fail to see how copybot could copy the contents of a box.

Can somebody from libSL confirm this? I think it's important to nip any conjecture in the bud because before you know it mass hysteria breaks out again and a million more futile anti-copybot spammers are put down in world all because of a rumour.

Inside the box thinking. How about a prim that only exists because the script says it does? Once the script doesn't exist, then neither does the prim.

I'm currently breaking my head about the same problem. Dr. Tardis has a point in offering a cooperation between content creators and LibSL developers.

The problem I see here: even if a prim is rezzed by a script inside another prim, the prim exists. If another person can see it, the prim dimensions and coordinates will be be sent to them. CopyBot doesn't copy, but uses standard building tools to re-create the prim, sans any scripts. It doesn't matter if the prim was brought into existence by llRezObject or if a script checks on the existence of another script, to delete certain prims if it isn't found.

The only solution I can think of is a change of prim size and shape on a timer event. Always only 1 or 2 prims at the same time - a torus turns invisible, changes into a large box, right back into a torus and turns visible again, hopefully too fast to notice (ok, I know that's a dream... one would notice, especially in laggy regions). A copy would most likely end up with at least one messed up prim. But aside from visibility issues I wouldn't want to add unnecessary script lag. When I buy a pair of shoes, I always delete every bling or color change script inside, since I don't want to carry a hundred scripts around.

Uninformed thinking. When copybot copies the prims, that is all it copies. There is NO WAY to forcibly tie a script to a prim or vice-versa.

I know what you are getting at, but it is not possible to do, given the way SL is designed. If a script rezzes a prim, copybot can still copy JUST the prim, without the script, and it will continue to exist without (need of) that script.

To put this into perspective, I want to again draw your attention to the fact that all copybot is doing is pretty much the same as you walking up to an object, rezzing a prim, making it match a prim in the object in terms of shape, size, orientation, and texturing, and repeating that process until you have a copy of that object. CopyBot just does it faster and more accurately, plus nets you the texture keys for the textures on the sides of the prims as well.

So, whatever kind of thinking you want to call it, it just can't be done.

Sorry.

That's the part 98 out of 100 residents wouldn't know how to do. Even with modify disabled objects - show me the person that can clone every tortured torus just by eye. It's the easiness that worries people. The typical skilled craftsperson doesn't need to steal.

Absolutely right on this one.

What makes the artisans' work valuable is that it's not so easy to do that anyone could do it - that, combined with the hopefully original concept the artist brings to the table. Unscrupulous people can use tools like CopyBot can certainly be misused to destroy that value, of this there is no doubt.