The Thieves Motherload

This was given a pretty sound drubbing from many posters to these forums when the lindens first aired it: .

I still don't understand what serious problems folk had with it. I thought it looked like a pretty good solution to the issues under whinge here. Seems to me they're damned if they do and damned if they don't.

The notecard exploit that all this stuff came from is rumored to have been reported quite some time ago. That would probably have been a good thing to have fixed right away instead of waiting for it to explode.

Also, as mentioned on the previous page, adding a "last modified by" field to assets would prevent a big grief vector. For example, the box that Stroker found all this stuff in was created by somebody with a reputation as a white hat. Did he actually make that box and put tons of stolen stuff in there? We have no idea because SL doesn't tell us who last modified the box. Don't believe this is a real issue? Send me a full-perm notecard or script..

No I didn't, I didn't have to. Remember they opened the floodgates to anonymous accounts on June 6, 2006, and invited everybody and their fourth cousin to come to Second Life and never tell Linden Lab a bloody thing about who they are.

It didn't take my original account long at all to go PIU though. Only using Paypal, not my debit card. This account is also PIU. There are a whole lot of avatars out there on the grid that Linden Lab doesn't know a single thing about though, and therein lies the rub.

Something's got to give so that those who are in fact breaking real life laws here can be prosecuted for their actions. I do realize that some potential theft here is not worth the money it would cost to do anything about it, but some of it is, and I'd be willing to bet damn good money that whoever is responsible for a case of theft on the magnitude of the case in question in this thread hasn't given Linden Lab anything at all useful in dealing with them.

So once again, Linden Lab needs to know full real life identity of every single avatar on this grid, and keep it permanently on file, no matter what objections any of their customers may raise. If you live in a place where providing such information to Linden Lab is illegal, then it's time to tell you thanks for coming, and GOODBYE.

Not gonna happen.

Wish for it all you want. Declare that SL is dead without it all you want. It's not gonna happen, though.

This step is unnecessary. It's not "being unidentified" that's the problem, it's "being able to start over again with a clean slate, forever" that's the problem. Simply not allowing new unverified avatars would do the trick.

If this is made retroactive, then it needs to be accompanied with a mechanism to combine accounts, no limits, under the same ID. The five avatar limit has to be unconditionally removed from the knowledge base and the code. I know too many role players who can't verify all their alts (except as Elvis) for this to be vaguely fair.

And do you think LL will EVER do that?

I agree with you there too. Anybody who has more than one avatar does have to have them all tied together under one umbrella. What happens to one happens to all.

As Meade is pointing out, the chances of this being done? Abysmal. However, that doesn't make it any less necessary.

I agree. The hippy dippy everyne can us SL for free and without consequence needs to end. I'm a basic now, but I've always felt everyone should pay something to use LL even if it is a one time sign up charge. I'm Basic now, but I was a premium for over a year. LL has been given a CC, Paypal and Debit Card number, they have My name and address, and I've used Aristotle. They do need to know who is using their service, if anything to stop the idiocy of making people reverify when they are hit with fraudulent ageplay AR's.

I sympathize with people who are unable or unwilling to give LL any personal information, I was once very much against it. But none of us are entitled to use SL, if we want to use the service, we have to make choices.

There'll be no verification. LL is going to become the Youtube of 3D content. There's tons of 3D content out there that LL will benefit from after they've added mesh support. LL doesn't need whiney content creators. If we don't like it then we can just pee off!

Just so we're on the same page, I'm not against doing stuff. I just don't see pushing for something we know LL won't do as being useful.

Content theft can NOT be prevented. LL will NEVER require that everybody in SL ante up their RL creds. It'd be more productive to discuss things that LL will do which can/might help.

Goddamn Batman!

But he may be right.

OK...you start. But even then, there is a big gulf between what LL can and what they will/ are capabale of doing.

K.




Yep. If I have to waste my time, I'd rather it was on things that have a chance of working. That's all I'm saying.

This goes beyond just content theft, although coughing up your true RL creds WILL help there too.

This also extends into everything else. Case in point, stalking and harassment. Regarding a recent court case of somebody with a restraining order in effect against them, sending repeated Facebook "pokes" to the person who took out the restraining order. They got arrested for it. In Second Life this kind of behavior can be taken much further. Person downloads Emerald, uses their built-in radar to stalk their chosen victim, and teleports repeatedly to this person's location. What protection is there from this individual? Banning them is not the answer, they can follow the person in places where their victim doesn't have banhammer powers. Send an AR? Sure, you can AR them till the cows come home, and at best you'll just be changing the name of the new throwaway alt they've created to harass you some more.

Put some teeth in it and get your RL identity out there in Linden Lab's permanent records on your account, and ensure all your alts are tied to your account, and wow, all the sudden you personally can be held responsible for your own illegal actions, no matter what they are. Be it content theft, stalking, harassment, illegal gambling, ponzi schemes, fraud, they've got your number.

Very very much a necessary evil based on the direction things in SL have already gone and seem to be heading in the future.

LL won't do either of those 2 solutions. They'd lose far too much in the way concurrency with either of them.

I should have known better than to have thrown the gauntlet at you.

Do I look stupid?

Of course not, but it would be more effective and cause less damage and fewer problems than just about anything else anyone has proposed.

/me winces as she reads this, knowing that in most cases, it's just as easy to do with the standard LL viewer and LSL scripts..

Emerald provides very little additional convenience for the stalker. You can stalk someone almost as effectively with my Otter Monitor and Uchi's teleporter. Contrariwise, Emerald doesn't help you stalk someone once they teleport away.

Yeah, but a lot of people don't know anything about LSL scripts. I don't.

More people know about scripting than they do about building a viewer...

Just use your Mysti-Tool to do a sim scan then.

You don't have to. You just have to be able to open a freebie box.

Actually, for one of my alts, I gave them nothing personal - an absolute total freebie throw-away account. And for another, the only info I gave was my paypal info -- they would have to go thru paypal to get my name and address.

If you sign up via some of the other third party portal sites, you do not have to give anything other than an email address. If you never want PIOF, then you never need give any more info.

:0 it's been suggested - although this is a noisy proposition and i'm not 100% with it yet, but warming more and more to it - that:

a) sure, the lab can continue free, anonymous accounts, but...
b) all anonymous accounts not be allowed to transfer items to others. (they can only receive.)

this would (should) be an account-level (beyond server-level) setting that can not be broken via any OS client. they can obtain transfer-enabled status via:

a) remaining free, and snail-mailing a 'verification' form letter of some sort to the lab, [EDIT: THIS IS NOT NECESSARILY NECESSARY ;0 - perhaps including a copy of an rl id like a driver's license]; lab snails back a keycode of some sort -back to their rl address- for the user to enter into their account. (i.e., they actually have to live at the address they provide to receive the keycode they need.)

b) going premium (which, to prevent stolen cc abuse, still has a 30/60/90 day period before going enabled - can be shortened via snail-mail application).

:\ the issue is more about distribution, and not whether or not a thief profits or not (because, more and more the case, they don't care about either). it's not a solution i like 100%, but it's better than completely eliminating free accounts, if the lab is completely against removing them.

credit where due; as i understand it the suggestion first came by way of:
http://gwynethllewelyn.net/2009/09/25/step-up-for-content-creation-theft-awareness/

discust it amongst yaselves...

p.s. [EDIT] my big mistake for including in my original posting, '... perhaps including a copy of an rl id like a driver's license...' I DIDN'T EDIT OUT ENOUGH WORDS from my original notes lol. for those who got too spooked by that...

TO CLARIFY: -i- certainly would -not- have to include a driver's license or some id like it - just rl name and address. again, just to emphasize... -I- would -NOT- include a copy of any rl id or anything else, other than name, address, and probably signature and whatever canned 'i affirm/confirm' legal verbiage the lab would likely fill in.

-just that depending on- : a) if the lab did this and b) depending on how they would -have- to go about setting up a proper legal process to do this, it -may have to- include some sort of copy of rl id. i dunno. ianal.