Why is help often so half-hearted?

There's no RP in Second Life apart from clubbing in fancy dress. Nobody new has a chance to build. There's no point making a av beyond generally "looking good", because people treat you the same no matter what you are.

I've been repeatedly told that I'm wrong about these things, but when asked to back this statement up with evidence people tend to get all offended. Which seems a bit mean - I'm asking for it because the evidence would be in the form of, for example, a landmark that I could teleport to where I can then do stuff I'd enjoy, rather than a blunt "you're wrong, end of conversation". And many of these people are happy to hand these out to others.

EDIT: Missed your point entirely it would seem. If you are being treated differently than others, I would suggest looking inward. Why are they reacting differently to you in particular? Perhaps your approach is off putting? I have no idea - just throwing the possibility out.

I am not you and would not know if you would enjoy the same things I do or not. Most likely not.

Everybody is responsible for their own happiness. I can't change it for you if you are unhappy no matter how much I wish I could -- and I have learned that lesson repeatedly over the years and will most likely go down that path a few times more. You sound burned out and depressed, the most i can give you is a momentary diversion but the underlying cause of the unhappiness will still be there until it is addressed.

To be a bit pedantic, I should point out that you don't know this. For all you know, before I started the thread, I wrote down a signed piece of paper saying that I would be happy only if Yosef Okelly told me to. But, well, that's... pedantic.

But I'm not so much talking about "taking responsibility for happiness" as about giving information that in many cases has been freely given to others.

Seems to me like there is a market for developers out there!

Maybe someone with experience should put up a poll looking at what kind of sims people would like to see (i notice a thread in this part of the forum asking about 1930s Mobster sims)...

Looks like there could be quite a bit of profit to be made if these clubs became "exclusive".

Being a newbie, I may have totally misunderstood your statement. And also being a newbie, maybe i've given away a brilliant idea!!

(C) * This is copyrighted to me, Amnesia Fhang, for 40% stake. Hehe!

if you are looking for a place to build i might sujest little blue island we has a decent staff that do help plus tons of tutorials to help you learnweekly speed building contests and show and tell ,frig'sday and satern'sday respectively.
if you want a place to hang out we are freindly as well.
RPG welllll good luck your on you own tyvm

I have no idea how to answer your question. I see the words, but they do not seem to be making sense to me. I really have no idea what you are talking about.

RPing - Deadwood, Midian City, CARP (yes, sex, go into the maze, RP to your hearts content; no "clubbing in fancy dress" unless someone runs up with a club and you are in a fancy dress)

I really have no clue what the "nobody new has a chance to build" could possibily mean. There are a ton of land out there people could buy for a song and build on to their hearts content.

Have no idea what that " There's no point making a av beyond generally "looking good", because people treat you the same no matter what you are." even means. I do not treat everyone as if there is just one other person, and they control all the other "characters" in SL or all the other "characters" are computer controlled. (treated the same? eh? What?)

Evidence? Of what? I do not think I've even seen RPing of clubbing in fancy dress. Do you have evidence of this "RP"? You are talking about something other than dance clubs, like Frank's Place, right? I do not exactly call that role-playing.

There are dozens of roleplay groups in SL such as the Gor's, vamps, star wars nuts, not to mention lots of others. I'm suprised you have never come accross any roleplaying other than clubbing in fancy dress. Have you bothered to look?



Search for a region called 'Cordova'. It's a sandbox. Teleport there. Click the build button at the bottom of the screen. Now you have finally got your chance to build....although of course you already knew this.



Some truth here, people will generally treat you nicely if you are a nice person, polite etc so its irreleant how your Av looks to some degree.

Although you are also very wrong. My av is old, wrinkly and looks like a hobo/tramp/wino. The reason for this is because I was tired of the sexual advances made upon my old AV in public places. Now I look like different, unattrative, poeple treat me differently to some extent.

I agree with Lexxi...what's your point, Yumi?

You're an experienced resident. What help do you need/want? Or are you making some sort of comment in regards to others?

As far as roleplaying, I've encountered FAR more than just "dressing up and going clubbing". There's purposeful roleplay, and also the everyday sort of roleplay that IS Second Life. People have helped me build, script, find things. I've found friendly groups, and groups dedicated to helping others. I've found friendship, and excitement, and wonder, and love in this virtual world.

Anyone can. It's all here.

SL is one huge roleplay
how much or how little you want to partake in .. is up to you
whether you RP on a SIM specifically made for RPing or whether you RP with your close friends or partner.. like happiness... this is up to you

Everybody can build if they want to.. thats what sandboxes are for.. they can join builders groups and partake in show and tell as well as sell their stuff on Xstreet or Onrez...

sandboxes abound...

looking good or bad,, thats your own choice.. you shouldnt be spending time, money and effort for any other reason but to make yourself happy.. if it doesnt make you happy.. onviously you shouldnt do it...
but your qualifier.... "because people treat you the same no matter what you are."
now to me thats a good thing.. means no discrimination.. noone should get preferential treatment (or be ignored) based on looks..

as for ppl helping.. I have never seen a shortage of that.. from close friends to total strangers.. so many ppl are willing to give out a LM.. an invitation... just to shoot ideas..
theres tons of great ppl around everywhere.

you are only as happy as you make yourself. no more .. no less.

There is lot of Residents, and lots of activities.
Yes it is sometimes like ghost town and hard to navigate, to figure out
where to go and hang out I have been around for years longer then
this guy and my first alt was lost for years with no clue.
Some of public sand boxes are really incredibly annoying, it big junk yard
no room to build and it gets bit confusing.
But there are places you can there is Fermi, there is place like NCI,
Shelter, numerous places. classes to learn and build.
There tons of Role playing places every type you could imagine if you
know how to search them out.
The thing for me about Second Life I figured out you sort of got to create
your own things to do, research what is out there or stumble upon it.
Sometimes it does feel like you're the only avatar who wants to do x, y and z
while every wants to do blank de blank blank but that doesn't mean
you have too.
A SL friend once and stung little bit as she said but it was true,
"We aren't here for your entertainment"
What I figured out is I have to find my own entertainment, if not already there I have to
create it and hope I find someone to share my creations, or
find a way enjoy my creations by my lonesome until I find someone who enjoys
what I am doing or I will learn that I can live quietly in SL with what I do have and
enjoy what I have or I can go do but I can't expect others to make my Second Life
be the way I want any more then others can do this in my first life.

You got to be kidding !

OH! Now I understand. (or I think I do)

Where to RP is a common question, and some people are given landmarks and offers for guilded tours when they ask. But you have only been given a few vauge references like "try a steampunk place." I don't think this is any more than random luck and timing. Otherwise, I really can't help you out since I fall into the clubbing in fancy dress crowd.

Nobody new has a chance to build. -- We were all new once. The builds came from somewhere. Maybe I'm too old to be called new any more but before I was in game 4 months I had a chain of small stores that made about 1000L$ a week profit. At least the store was in the black, my personal expenditure is always much more than that.

There's no point making a av beyond generally "looking good", because people treat you the same no matter what you are -- I agree, to a point. Making an avatar to the point of generally looking good is not hard at all. I think of it like being bathed and having clean clothes in 1st life. It shows you care a little about how you look and how you want other to percieve you -- or in other words it shows at least a modest amount of self-worth. After that ... no matter how much you spend or work on your looks, your personality is what makes any difference to how people treat you.

On a final note, Yumi, you are to be happy and content. Find satisfaction in your avatar from the style in which you made her. Compliment someone you don't know. And enjoy the people you choose to be with.

What I'm saying is that often people are happy to say things like this.. but it doesn't actually happen or turn out the way they are saying, and they don't seem to care about seeing that through.

For example, I know lots of people will say there's purposeful RP and name several sites, but every time I've been to them, a) they're locked down to private groups, and b) 90% of the green dots are in the club/bar/ballroom/dance circle. That's why I say it tends to come down to clubbing in costume.

Seems I still don't know what you're asking.



Perhaps they don't understand what you're asking either?

When I came back as FD I had friends suggest I join groups that were of
interest to me, so I did their never any activities or discussions I couldn't figure it out.
Someone suggested I go to infohubs and hang out, they people who hung out
there were unfriendly, cliquey or down right hostile.
I tried to go Shelter and NCI truthfully I felt isolated even their as new player
rarely was there anyone who actually talked to me even when I tried but
I only went a few times got discouraged and didn't come back.
But what I figured what I was doing wrong is I went to place maybe once or twice
never returned but if I had found place I liked, stuck around long enough, sort had
people get use to my presence there I did gain new friendships and people to talk too
after a while.
It takes time and patience sometimes.

I would think the thousands of people who frequent Star Trek RP sims or Star Wars RP sims or elf/ork high fantasy RP sims or furry RP sims, etc., would beg to differ. And those are just the few I can think of off hand.

Also, your definition of RP could maybe use some adjustment. Lots of roleplay happens in SL as a matter of course. Some people pretend to be another gender or another personality type or another race. You don't know who's RP'ing and who's not at any given moment.



Uh, what? You mean they no longer include the Build button with new dowloads of the viewer? Wow, I had no idea. You see all this time, I thought that every newbie who wants to build would do what I did when I was new. Either buy some land or go to a sandbox and just start building. But you're saying that doesn't work anymore?

Tell me then, is the Windlight sky falling? Has the virtual land been cleaved asunder? Have the mainland sims fallen into the sea? Say it isn't so.



Assuming for a second that that's true, why would that be a bad thing? Shouldn't we all be treated accordingly with WHO we are, not WHAT we are or what we look like? Isn't that what the best of humanity has striven to become for countless centuries?

Reality check, though. As much as I wish what you were saying here were true, it's simply not. People do treat me a certain way when my avatar looks like a beautiful woman, and a little differently when it looks like a hideous ogre. The differences are subtle for sure, since most people do try to be nice no matter what, but the natural biases are all still there.

And in addition to that rather obvious behavior, people also tend to assume that various aspects of an avatar reflect on the personality, or even the worth, of its user. I know I'm certainly guilty of this from time to time. When someone shows up with bling sparkling from head to toe, mutli-hundred-prim hair, laughably overblown animations, and all manner of other lagtastic add-ons, my instant reaction is that the person must either be stupid, uncaring about other people's frame rates, or both. I don't know for certain, but I'd be willing to bet that my reflex-driven treatment of such people is probably different than of those who appear to be more responsible. I certainly don't do it on purpose, and on every conscious level I realize full well that the person most likely is neither stupid nor uncaring, but still, our behavior as human beings, unfortunately, is not entirely under our direct control or awareness.

Whether you realize it or not, or whether you want it to or not, your avatar's appearance DOES affect how people treat you.



This paragraph seems to contradict your hypothesis, especially the last sentence. If people are indeed handing out landmarks to others, then obviously the areas you seek to explore do exist. Otherwise there'd be no landmarks to give to anyone at all.

It sounds to me like what you're upset about is not so much that these things don't really exist (because they do), but more that you don't feel you're being included in them. I would submit that the problem likely lies in your approach. When you say something like "there's no roleplay in SL", and then someone says "yes there is", and you respond with "prove it", that's confrontational, whether you meant it as such or not. Most people won't want to roleplay with someone they perceive to be hostile, so of course they won't give you a landmark to their favorite hangout. They don't want your (perceived) hostility polluting it.

I'd be willing to bet that if you were to approach the question more positively, you'd get different results. What if instead of "there's no roleplay in SL" you instead said "Hey, I love RP. I'm really into _____, _____, and ______. I'd love to meet up with some like-minded people in SL and have some fun. Any takers?" I have no doubt you'd find the places you're looking for.

And if they indeed don't exist, you can always build them yourself.

I usually start out as a wallflower myself, but become more active after a while. I frequently hang out at the Shelter and think people generally talk a lot to new residents. When I think back to when I was new however, I would usually just sit in a corner watching the crowd, learning new things as the less quiet newbies ran around asking questions.

Yumi, you stated in another thread that you wanted to perform or RP in SL and felt that was anti-social. I posted in response saying that I didn't see either as anti-social. You responded as to why you thought it was, then followed up with an IM asking basically the same question as your OP.

I was trying to be helpful and gave examples of performance and RP opportunities in which I have personally been involved and/or know about. From my IM to you:

"SL has a lot of performance/rp opportunities. Just due to lack of time and other interests, I haven't explored them fully, but off the top of my head:

*Performing:

There are singers/musicians RL who do shows in SL. That takes RL talent in that area as well as a bit of self-promotion. But other ideas are:

*Funky Feats - A dance troupe that goes to various dance venues (usually jazz types) and dance as a group. The group is open to join (last I looked) and the participants learn to use the different dance chims and such to dance in a synchronized pattern. They often use props, etc. and are generally a group of people who enjoy having fun dancing as a group.

*There is at least one ballet group in SL (I ran across its exhibit in SL5B). I can't recall the name of it, but a search on ballet or similar terms should find it.

*Someone who has been posting on the forums (pnc Blessed) has in his/her sig info on The Globe Theatre followed by "Live Performances Only"

*Role play:

Tons of this in SL, it's just a matter of finding your interest.

*Everwind - This is an interesting sim that I wish I had more time to check out. It is similar in nature to WoW or EQ games in that there are different races and classes - Humans, Elves, Dark Elves, Dwarves, etc. It looked like a friendly sim when I explored it (wearing a visitor tag) and the people seemed to stay in character for the most part.

*There are any number of fantasy/Medieval role play sims - The Avilion order being probably one of the better known. There is some group called "Order of the Elves" or something similar that I keep seeing in the group listing of people I see in classes that are dressed as elves.

*19th Century Steampunk - Caledon and Babbage being the two leaders in that

*Of course the myriad Gorean, Vampire, etc. type sims. Those may not be to your liking at all, but, at least for Gorean, there are several that are quite pleasant if one likes that style of rp that are not the forced capture, fighting, etc. types one usually hears of in the forums."

Your response was basically that you had tried a couple of them but (a) some were not in your time zone, (b) one wanted you to spend a lot of $ to participate and (c) wrote off Everwind and Avilion as "clubbing by a different name."

Then you continued IMing asking why I wasn't continuing to IM you. I (again nicely) said those were all the ones I knew about. You had discounted all my suggestions and I had no others.

What exactly do you want that everyone here hasn't tried to help you with?

NCI Kuula

RP: Kids, Lolis, Divas, Dragons, Fairies, Robots, Talking cars, Steampunk, Star-Whatever.....

Building: 2 sandboxes, with anti-griefing security.....

Clubbing in fancy dress: HA! XD

And, I get treated quite differently from other people. And, I treat people differently for a bunch of reasons. It's just subtle. I don't like to prejudge, isolate, or categorize based on appearance. Not to say I'm not guilty of it, but avatars are much more varied than just plywood cubes. (^_^)

Anyway, what's wrong with SL being an unrealistic fashion show? =^-^=

As Rose O'donell advised when I saw her in person in so many words,
"You got to go out and make pest of yourself on regular basis regardless of what
may happen, just don't go away until you find whatever it is you want to do or people
you want to do with it....."
That why I hang out in forums a whole lot because if I didn't just be me and
my doodles, prims and occasional wild designs disturbing my friends and the
neighbors.
I had a builder's rp game I tried to start long time ago it died do to lack of interest
and I just didn't want to play with myself but I still find things to do.
Personally I have been dressing up as a Chef and making Pizzas a whole lot recently at
Kahnis until my SL account is zero. Hehe

Well, actually, the second time I PMed you back was to mention that you were entitled to disagree with my "discountings" if you believed they were incorrect. Since you didn't reply I figured you agreed with them, so that's fine. Now if you had been someone who I *knew* was involved in other types of RP, or performance that didn't fit into those categories - and whom, thus, couldn't possibly in reality agree with those points, because they would be contradicting their own experience - and were only agreeing with me to avoid giving information/involvement, then I would have been upset, but as it was I wasn't.



Actually, most of the time that gets the same response or no response at all. That's why I had to be a little bit confrontational (I don't really like that much): to give the other person some kind of reward - ie, getting to win an argument about something they care about - in exchange.



That one I really do disagree with - if you build them yourself, you have to go into business as a builder/area manager/marketer, rather than getting to use it. One very hard lesson I have learned from my time in SL is that no matter how good a creator you are, you cannot change what other people do or don't want to do.

And this is exactly the kind of response that does get on my nerves

Yes, you are wonderful, but what about me?

I'm responding in jest but I wonder how a newbie would feel..

I gave you all the info I knew to give. If you had already tried those and didn't like them for whatever reason, I wasn't going to debate you on them, which is what your follow-up IMs seemed to be wanting me to do.

I was happy to give all the info I knew to you...I was not looking for a debate.

And that's what I think you really want.

That's an excellent thought... it makes me think about my recent request about that 1930s mobster sim. If one doesn't exist... perhaps I should look at creating it.