Is Paying for Links in Profile Picks Cheating?

It could be used to also insert keywords at one point beyond the character limit of the about land window, though that seems somewhat harder to do now. Seemed to be one possible loophole though it may have been due to the system acting up, about land was iffy at the time so wouldn't surprise me if the code modules didn't click in and work like they should have.

....but Phil proved that he can sit at no.1 spot on on keyword "Low-prim furniture" without using Picks. So what's your point?

Do you think that it can't be done without using a Picks machine.?

For the record i have many no.1 positions in All Search in some popular keywords for some of my businesses without using Picks?.............and?

What now?

I'd guess it was a flaw at the time, because there's no way (imo) they've written it to parse for html and not count the code as characters. In fact, I'm wondering if you made a mistake, because, imo, the database field will only accept nnn characters.

I don't even know what a Picks machine is.

I refuse all new requests for mall stores. They simply do not pay for themselves.

I have a couple of stores in malls that have been in them forever before the new search. I don't handle that end of my business, they are attached to Sav's shop. You would have to ask her.

Not quite what I said I said I've never paid for them. I have two notices in my store that say, "If you like this store, and would like to help others find it, please add it to your profile Picks. It helps with the new search."

The "All search" still includes Traffic

As long as it does he is still gaming the All search with his trafficbots

If he uses picks from his trafficbots hes also gaming those - even if he is not paying for Picks.

Such a sign would be perfectly legitimate, in my opinion.

Yes........my mall Lumiere Fetish Mall (formerly Feminine Fetish mall)

....and I have a Picks machine there that costs me money each day....and is to the benefit of my vendors there.....and that includes you.


Still feeling ethical?

ahh cool....i might try that one!

I had no idea I had a shop in your mall.

Thats cool Ill leave.

It treats the about land field as formatted text of sorts, so I tried a few ways of breaking that treatment.

lol-thats what i'm talking about....you don't understand ALL search and what parameters count!
The answer is in this thread....I'll give you a clue , the answer is one of Ciaran's posts.

Ill just leave thanks, doing any business with you seems shady.

It's ok...i have a waiting list with some quality creators on it....that actually sell the items best suited for my Mall. I can't imagine shapes made in Oct 06 would sell that well anyway.....the game has moved on!


**EDIT*** should have re-phrased that....Body Shapes that where made in
Aug 05!! Maybe if you spent less time camping in RA re 15k posts...and more time creating, you might be able to cover your tiers through sales........just a thought!

She doesn't understand having Picks in traffic bots either LMAO. What she *does* understand is spreading mud - truth doesn't matter - it's mud that counts. But then it's Colette. What else do we expect?

Yet, you offer the question "Is Paying for Links in Profile Picks Cheating?"

And here, you've compared Pick space gaming with traffic gaming. Are you sure you don't want to stir up another ethical debate?

I will lean back toward the intent of "The Providers" and say that both are equally unethical. Chip nails it well enough. Greed. It's disgusting. I intend to continue to create new things in SL, whenever I can, and when I feel they are good enough to pass on to others, they will be passed on freely. I'm done with the hope of ever competing with the greed and lust that pervades the community today. Chip has 3 years on me, and even I see the difference since I first joined.

Who said I wasn't covering my tier?

I certainly never said that

I just said Mall stores don't pay for themselves.

Malls in general are poor performers, I thought that was fairly well established.

-----------------------

My business has been earning a profit since July of 2005 when I opened it.

I have newer items on sale, not that it matters in this thread - this isn't the advertising forum.

As if your opinion was worth the screen-space it takes up.

There is a certain level of greed in every person who puts things out for sale. We aren't doing this for altruistic reasons, even if it is to just cover tier. The greed argument falls flat for me, because if money doesn't matter, then why are you selling your stuff at all?

The point that marketing takes work is not being given enough credit. Phil has plenty of picks and doesn't pay for them. Clearly, his customers like his things and help him out that way. What is wrong with that? Isn't that how it's supposed to work?

What is "inferior" is highly subjective and searching 40 pages deep to find something is not a virtue in and of itself. As far as I see it, so long as the parcel contains what is advertised, then you cannot say that it is not relevant. Search all gets rid of the word cloud of irrelevant keywords and picks up spam very quickly. For that, we should be thankful. And others need to step up to the plate to make their stuff found more easily.

What has that got to do with anything?

I wear the shape now that i had in 2004 - big deal. I doubt anyone who has seen me has any complaints.

I do not think the year her shapes were made in makes any difference to the quality of them.

All of this misses the central point in all of these search-gaming threads.

If anybody is saying that is greedy to sell things, then they are an infinitesimal minority here. We have someone saying that they make stuff available for free, but this is not to say that others are greedy.
I don't believe that anyone has issues with people marketing their offerings.
I don't believe that anyone has issues with people putting Picks for places that they enjoy because of they admire what they perceive as the quality of what a place is offering in its field.
I don't believe that anyone is saying that things available in a place are not relevant if the place uses traffic gaming.



Yes. That is exactly how it's *supposed* to work. People recommend places they consider to be excellent/enjoyable. It was supposed to be a vote of popularity/quality.
Add: People using Picks to say something about themselves/friends/enemies isn't a problem as this is low background noise if Picks are used for search weighting. A genuine "This is my sis. Mess with her and ya mess with me" is not going to put Sis at the top of Search.
Once others begin to pay people to put Picks in their profile, that negates the value of Picks as they were supposed to work. It's unethical. It's greed.

In these traffic-gaming threads, the quality of what is on offer is entirely irrelevant. So is the amount of work put in by the seller/creator.

Well, those are the products (2005-6) she is trying to sell in my mall!, so it has a lot to do with everything. For one the quality of skins & hairs have improved so much during that time...using better skin & hair combos with her shapes would make her display boards more presentable and effective.......as they stand now, it could be mistaken as BIAB...its of that quality!
Presentation counts for a lot if you're trying to make sales.....be it in a mall or in your mainshop! As ones doesn't use rotating models in Malls.....people rely on what they see on 2D display boards...........that's what they are buying from at the end of the day.

The newer stuff Collette talks about.....is from Oct 06, which is still 2 years old.

I do believe that Briana's "What has that got to do with anything?" actually meant what has that got to do with Paying for Picks and cheating.

Exactly that and what i have been saying earlier in this thread.

Just scimming through the product listings page helps a lot.....if they advertise that they sell "beds", then you simply locate beds in thier product listings that are set for sale.
It tells you the prices and gives your the x,y,x location co-ordinates.

It's too easy to look for excuses when sales are not coming through the door.
Sometimes their are down periods or seasonal drops...one has to look of ways
to boost or injecti both traffic & sales. e.g holding a treasure hunt, dollarbie
sales, sales in general or just timing the release of new products to hit those quiet periods.

Some people here, just ignore these realities and just focus at things like Picks and bots and whatever else is the flavour of the month.

For the first time I can agree with you, be it partially.

The main topic here is whether paying for picks is cheating. Some of us say it is, some of us say it is not.

Especially since business owners that pay for picks have a big sign stating so (how else can people sign up), they are doing it in the open. It does influence Search All to a certain degree though, and someone searching does not know yet that the place they find has that sign up. Since (a small, I add) part of the search result was influenced by the payed picks, you could say they were cheated. Not in my opinion, but I can understand those who think this way.

Now one of the most used arguments is, that Picks were not meant for this. Just as traffic was not meant to be influenced by camping and bots. And that is something I cannot really be bothered with, I must say. They give us the tools to work with, we use them. Not by secret exploits, but simply by implementing tools that help our businesses. They did not intend a lot of things, I bet, but it is up to them, as our provider, to define the boundaries within we can operate. And if they give us picks, and then publish those picks are used in search, you can bet that a clever person comes up with a way to get more picks. Things are not always used as someone once intended it. That's life, not cheating.

And now comes the main issue: Picks camping has been invented, and can be useful. Just as camping is, and bots too. Now a business owner can do 3 things:
- implement the stuff, as his competition does as well and he wants to be able to keep competing.
- refuse to use these tools, as he finds them unethical. Sits back to see his business drop.
- use other means of competing.

Now I can understand all of them, though 2 would be foolish. You know I used 1 and 3 both. As for bots, I chose for solution 3: focus on search all instead of search places. But for Picks, I chose to join in, as they were important for Search All, as I thought at that moment. Now I know I could have gained the #2 rank without it, but back then I had to make a choice.

Business is not always ethical. The more idealistic you are, the less ethical you will find doing business. The more successful you want to be, the more tools you have to use to compete with others. And as long as those tools are legal, they will be used. Something I will not call cheating. but competing.

So bottom line from my point of view:
No, paying for picks is not cheating. But it is influencing your search result, and to some in a wrong way. For me it equals all other means of optimizing: parcel name/description, and objects put up in search so people see what I sell. I sleep well at night, because I think I am doing the right thing. However, I can understand the point made by the people saying it is cheating as well.

The only thing I do wonder: do the people that think different from me, understand my point of view as well?

Have a nice day, Marcel