Come Experiance The Return of Secondlife Gaming!

i really think you are asking the wrong people if this is legal or not. you need to contact a Linden about this.

So can someone explain me why some want absolutely to skirt around the gambling ban?

Because some find the games and social interaction from them fun.

Others will just to break teh rules. Sames as those a$$hats always have.

The OP here, appears to be of the first class, which only wants to have fun in a way they feel ins fun. Our World. Our Imagination.

If they can find a way to legally do it, let 'em. ^.^

~Jessy

in a way that is clearly not allowed anymore

Being fun or not.

Thank you Jessica I appreciate you seeing what ive been trying to say here

Im not looking to bring gambling back.. im looking to bring the fun we had playing the games back. Granted slot machines are one of the things im selling. but the intended use of this is to also bring back goal based games that people were really upset about losing with the ban that gave a reward for doing the best. as well as restimulating the buisness that both creators and owners once had.

my intention is not to skirt around the law. that i promise. i would like to know how to get a lindens aproval on this but i would like that linden to sit and listen and really talk it out with me. i dont want someone whos gonna just see a slot machine and say No and not give me a chance to explain. So if someone can direct me on how to do this.. i would really like it.. because i want to release is as soon as i can as it is basicly 99% ready for sale. and the only 2 things that are stopping me from going into it is

1. Making sure my test period yeilds no bugs
2. Waiting to see if a linden takes my stuff down

i dont want to end up selling the product.. having people buy it.. only to have it considered banned (even though there should be no reason why it would be)

BTW. i do plan on making this stuff very affordable as always ... ive never been one to price gouge..

the main full kit.. which includes 14 slot machines, deal or decline, monopoly tactics, Scratch off, a Ticket Lotto Orb, The Ticket Counter Vendor and Prize Vendor
All Copy and most of it moddable for texture changes and size will probably
go for about 20k - 25k.

also i would offer smaller kits most likely mixing up things.. like a slot kit and a Wall Game Kit (monopoly,deal,scratch) all comming with the Lotto Orb, Counter Vendor and Prize Vendor.. probably 15K . all copy/and most mod. (giving value to buying the full kit)


however thats just off the top of my head. it may end up being less then that . but the value in it all is that its all copy . 20k for 17 Copy Games and Equipment sounds reasonable compared to game prices of the gambling era... but ill approach this more with the people who are testing my equipment to see how they feel it would be worth to the community

as for the script. when i have this available . i cant see charging more then 5000 for a copy/trans version (no mod) the value in that would be that anyone who previously made games can now re-release them in the ticketek technology and resell them

lets hope

I dont see how you feel its not allowed when all signs point to the fact that theres nothing breaking the rules here.

As i have pointed out that the ticket points have no real value. therefor taking one of the main keys of the ban and removing it from the equasion.

How is it not something of value if you're selling it in a vendor right next to it?

Regular price: L$100
Play the "game" for L$10 (per try) for a *chance* of getting a ticket that can be redeemed for said item.

Sorry, but that's gambling.

See Kitty's post above.

She/he is absolutely right, it is gambling because the goods for which tickets are exchanged are for sale, and therefore have value. Chips at a real life casino have no real value, but they are exchanged for cash at the end of your session in much the same way as these tickets are exchanged for goods with a saleable value. Take the prizes out of your sale vendors and there's no problem.

i went over this a few comments back

1. you get a ticket no matter what. win or not. you atleast get 1 ticket. no chance about it.

2. (and this mostly counters your point Conan. )
you mentioned that chips at a casino have no value.. but they do. because of the fact they can be exchanged for cash at the end of the session.

the ticket points (the Item being paid out) have NO value because they cant be bought/sold/exchanged/reused. Regardless of the fact that they can be traded for an item or not. you cannot have value on an item if you cant resell it.

the item in the vendor isnt whats being paid out by the machine. and in most cases that item will also be non transferable. but that depends on the person who is offering the item.

As i said in the past for a something to be "of value" it must qualify 2 main rules.

1. List a Set Price in Which it can be sold. (i.e. 300 Points - L$1)
2. List a Method on How they are bought.

you cant list a set price because if i set 2 items in my vendor. one i normally sell for 200 and one for 300 linden.. but i put them both up for 1000 ticket points.. what would you label the worth of the tickets? not only that.. is that the same ratio that other people are offering their items for?

and even IF you could somehow come up with a set value.. theres no way to buy the points with linden.. no way to transfer the points to anothr person.. and no way to offer them for sale.

please refer yourself to any ticket/token bases systems in Real life. ones that use real slot machines and games of chance in places like boardwalks/chuck e cheese/ect. and tell me if they are breaking the law by doing the same thing i am?

PS Internet gambling is as illegal as owning a fully operational money Slot machine in the US.

People.... Please understand im NOT looking to loophole the gambling thing. Please read all past messages before deciding im up to no good.

im looking to offer a alternative to games that once paid L$. whether it be what was boldly found in casinos (slots, card games) or games we once found fun and fought and hoped was not banned (slingo,tringo and other games we thought was skill)

I dont see why everyone is so negitive over the issue and trying to fight so hard against it.

Oh we understand Kain, you're motives seem pure enough. I think we all just don't want you to end up disappointed if LL shut you down. Playing devil's advocate basically. These are all arguements that LL may use you see.

As I suggested before, the only legal way I think you can circumvent the ban is by having freeplay games, but charge access to enter the place. There is no wager. You don't even have to play. You just pay to be on the premises. If you want to have a pot, the pot is funded by you, but there is no consideration for each hand/game.

This sounds a lot like what Seven Shikami ( i think that's the name) is doing with the skill games arcade on Flotsam Beach. If the prizes you are giving out are no transfer, then there is no possible way to exchange them for Lindens or anything else, and you are definately OK under the new policy. If there's anyway for the prizes (the actual prizes not the tickets) to be resold, then you will have some technical problems with the law. It would be cool if you and Seven could get together and come up with a standard ticketing system so people could play both types of games and get the same kind of ticket. I wish you luck, I want to see some fun games come back too.

i just checked that place out. very nice place. brings back some memorys of the arcade days

and yes.. come to think of it.. it almost seems like the systems main function is identical. his games require a score to be hit before getting tickets. but thats reasonable. the prizes are more akin to the small prizes you see in game rooms which i thought was a real nice touch

ok.. so this is my solution to block off the absolute final possible hole. if you say his function is ok because of the items being non transfer. then im going to make my vendor check all items for the next owner being trans. and will not allow the vendor to operate if anything in the vendor is transferable after trade.

this way no matter who owns the system the items will never be able to be bought back.

does this sound like a final solution?

That sounds really solid to me. There may still be problems based on which Linden happens to see it. Some people have had completely free games returned. If they are paying attention and you are clear that there is no way the prizes can be exchanged, you should be fine.

I think the main reason LL is returning everything is due to being a bit lazy and a LOT overworked here. They are prolly jsut responding to any and every AR of gambling and REturning things after a curiousity glance.

My advice to the OP is to set up your idea and get bugs worked out -without making it public. You may even want to put it up on group entry land only for right now and have freinds test it.

Then send a Support Ticket for a Linden Review. Write up your entire plan. Go over it three times for details and then let 2-3 friends read over it for msitakes or missing info. Then read it again yourself before send in as a Ticket. Basically just ask LL if all you have detailed is legit. If you get the okay, post up a poster at your gaming place with the fact that LL Support did say your theme was legit and state the Ticket # in that poster. This will give any investigating Linden instant access to the data they need to make an informed decision.

On a personal note, I would also reccomend giving this whole smear of the Wagering ban another 2 months to cool down. Given past things in SL of this nature, in another 60 days, people won't even remember gambling existed lol

~Jessy

Ummm...the whole point of the OP's post was to bring back games and fun while adhering to all the new rules and regs. How is that not allowed? o.0

~Jessy

Fun isn't allowed. Fun might be considered broadly offensive.

That's the real reason the grid is so screwy -- Lindens have in place measures to reduce the overall Fun Quotient of Second Life.

Ok.. i contacted the lindens (filed a report on myself) explaining that i wish to have linden approval.. but could only briefly explain the basics.

i have pretyped out a full explination and hopefully they will allow me to issue this to them so they may understand...

tell me what you think?

WARNING. WALL OF TEXT.

An Introduction to the TickeTek Technology
____________________________________

TickeTek Technology is a new system of gaming in the world of Second Life.

When Linden Labs decided to ban gambling in Second Life. Many buisnesses
were effected by the change. Casinos, Game Rooms, Clubs, and Even creators of
gaming devices marketed to these groups.

Thou, the reason was valid for Linden Labs to ban the system it left a empty space
for people who once enjoyed recieving reward for their gaming time.
Great games like Tringo, Slingo were banned. as well as many other games that people
enjoyed playing on a daily basis.

Free play machines took the place of many of the games available.
and even though it did partially satisfy the tastes of some. there was something missing.

it is my belief that what is missing is the goal which made us drive to play these games.
the feeling of earning and winning.
although we can no longer recieve L$ for our wins i have decided to find a way to drive
the fun of gaming in Second Life again.

TickeTek is the product of my time.

TickeTek is based on the practice of Game Room Ticket/Token Trades.

The player is instructed to recieve a free ticket counter and register it with the game room.
each game room counter will be unique just like tickets in RL game rooms (where a game room will not accept anothers tickets)

The player then pays a machine to play their game.

And their return is Ticket Points from the TickeTek System.

These points can then be exchanged for Non transferable items via the TickeTek Item Vendor.

All TickeTek Games will be clearly labled with the TickeTek Logo and Branded with a note
that states that TickeTek Points cannot be Exchanged for L$ or US$

As you can see this system is almost identical to ticket/token transfers found in gamerooms all across the US.
examples of this can be found in boardwalks/chuck e cheese/and various other game rooms

TickeTek Points Cannot be transfered/bought/sold/exchanged. the only way to gain points is through gaming
and the only way for the tickets to be deducted is via the vendor.

TickeTek Points cannot be reused in any way. meaning there is no way to bet the points with hopes for more.

It is my belief that in order for a item to be considered a "Item of Value" it must qualify for Major Steps

1. It must be accessable to be bought and sold freely
2. It must have a true value in worth (example - 300 Tickets for L$1)

and one may argue that the tickets have value because the item they buy has value and can be resold.

even if this may be true. i have taken the extra step to program the vendor to make sure that items in the vendor
cannot be marked as transfer for the next owner.

This eliminates the possible resale of the item as well as classifys the item as a item of no value.

Also assuring the ticketpoints have no value is to make sure they arent able to be reused to attempt to gain more.

TickeTek Points are solid and secure. the system has been programmed so there is no way to copy tickets
to abuse the system. a owner may only wear 1 ticket counter at a time and only on their back.

The gameroom owner uses a numeric password to assure that the system is secure and extreemly hard to hack.

The ammount of tickets are clearly visable and use XYText to display the ammount.

If the TickeTek is transfered to another person after activation the counter resets from start and tickets are wiped clean.

Users are warned of this when activating.

This system is simular to a linden approved game system that is used by Insert Quarter Arcade. (Flotsam Beach, <93,144,21>
in which the player wears a counter and plays games which gives them tickets depending on their performance

the tickets are then exchanged for prizes at the counter via small vendors.

this is NOT a method to skirt around the ban in secondlife. as i have made many steps to make sure that the
gain of L$ is on the owners side ONLY.

My intentions for this system is to bring entertainment to another level in secondlife.

to revitalize the economy and flow of money that secondlife once had in the time before the ban

and to give sellers another method of offering their items to the general public in a new fun and entertaining way.

The Pay script will be offered to people as a NON Modable script that may be used in their older machines in place of
the llGiveMoney Command.

The script will force the TickeTek Logo and Warning into the prim its in. making sure that no machine is mislabled.




Below you will find a listing of all the items associated with TickeTek and their features.
**************************

TickeTek Ticket Counter And Registration Station
_________________________________________
TickeTek Registration Station is what Gives the ticket counter to the player.

The Owner Must make the counter non-copy.
and Give their numeric password on a randomly selected channel

After doing this a player needs to only click the Sign to recieve their counter and then the button below it to register
it to the gameroom. registration passes on the password so the counter can communicate with the other TickeTek Equipment
in which that password is assigned to.

1. TickeTek Counters cannot be transfered between avatars.
2. Counters are secure with a highly top secret channel which is different for each gameroom

************************

TickeTek Item Vendor
___________________

TickeTek Item Vendor communicates only with the counter and is the only item that can
deduct tickets from the counter.

TickeTek Item Vendors do not accept L$ or any other form of trade other then TickeTek Points
and only points from the gameroom in which they were earned.

Items MUST be classified as No Transfer for the next owner for the Vendor to go into operation mode.

a Game room owner may even enter into an agreement with creators to pay commission for their items
apon customers. supplying advertisement and an additional method of a creator being able to sell their items
and the creator may even offer exclusive items via this vendor in order to drive buisness for the gameroom owner
the creators key and commission ammount are fixed into the notecard setup for the vendor.

Multiple vendors my be used for all types of items from small low ticket items like balloons and tshirts
to huge ticket items like fully functional weapon systems, games, and Even Services

**************************

TickeTek Slot Machine
____________________

One of the available items with ticketek this item is simular to machines of the past with some major alterations

1. L$ is paid in. and ONLY paid out in refund of remaining L$ credits. This number only lowers. it never increases due
to gaming outcome nor does it stay the same. the only way to get more L$ is to pay more into the machine.

2. Reward payout is in TickeTek Points ONLY. The points CANNOT be regambled into the machine to earn more.
once the tickets are won they are transfered into the counter where they await spending.

3. Slot machines odds are greatly loosened allowing big wins at any time using a TRUE Random system called
Real Reel Tech. which operates like a real slot reel. allowing more spaces on the wheel for smaller wins then bigger ones.

4. Even if the player wins nothing in the game. there is always a guarenteed ticket ammount of atleast 1 ticket.
(the player must play the game with atleast 1 credit to qualify for the ticket)

All credits are fixed for 1 credit per L$1 and cannot be increased nor can the odds be changed from the high payout rate

**************************

TickeTek Deal Or Decline
____________________

Offering the fun of the hit gameshow Deal Or No Deal in the world of secondlife.

the game room can set the price per play to any price they wish and payout of 1-1000 tickets is possible

the game offers no L$ funds back to the player and will only pay out tickets to the ticket counter


***************************

TickeTek Scratch Off Card
__________________

The fun of scratch off cards in secondlife.

the player can earn 1-1000 Tickets in a single game

the game room can set the price per play to any price they wish and payout of 1-1000 tickets is possible

the game offers no L$ funds back to the player and will only pay out tickets to the ticket counter

players pay the machine, and then select 1 of the 6 boxes to reveil their prize ammount

***************************

TickeTek Monopoly Tactics
________________________

Played simular to the game of monopoly in a fast paced game of luck and skill

the game room can set the price per play to any price they wish and a payout of 1 - ???? tickets are possible

the game offers no L$ funds back to the player and will only pay out tickets to the ticket counter

the player pays their money, and has a set ammount of rolls to get as many propertys as possible
without landing on goto jail.

every property is worth a ticket ammount.

getting all propertys in a group doubles the bank ammount

getting all railroads triples the bank ammount.

doubles gives extra spins

some spaces give bonus rolls/tickets or removes rolls/tickets

player may leave at anytime if they feel they may risk losing their earned tickets

**********************************

TickeTek Random Lotto Orb
_________________________

Player sets the max ammount of tickets to be paid out. selects a range and how many avatars must be in the range in order to play
as well as how often the orb picks a winner

every round the orb will pick a random ammount of tickets between 1 and the set max ammount

the player does not need to pay the orb to gain the tickets.

the orb will pick a random number of tickets, announce the drawing and warn people to wear their counter and then pick a random person
and pay them their tickets.

Must have missed it.... Didn't realize that the fun was gone from Second Life...

Morwen.

i had a responce from a linden. they asked me if i saw the update of the gambling ban. and so far i see nothing of my stuff being returned.. could this be a positive sign of acceptance ?

the major note to the update that really works on my side is

What about games in which no Linden dollars or other “consideration” is paid out?
If the “payout” involves objects that are more akin to novelty objects that cannot readily be converted into Lindens, real-world currency or value, then that activity will likely be permitted.

so working these 2 together. (responce from linden and the note from the update)

im almost safely assuming that i will be able to release this VERY soon.

i will IM the linden for a little more conformation when SL is back online. but as i see it .. it looks like soon we will have this tech on the market

I'll go on record saying I think you have a good idea. I'd even play.

I know we could all go on for another ten pages about the meaning of "value" and whether exchanging tickets for prizes makes the whole operation akin to gambling - but if you look at the RL equivalent of this type of game then I don't see it as violating the updated policy. We have some pretty strict gambling laws in various parts of the US, but I don't think any kids have been arrested yet for trading in their game tickets for teddy bears at Chuckie Cheese.

In before the lock.

I think the question that will determine the answer is:

Do the games reward tickets randomly or do the games reward tickets for skill?

We've already determined that people have to play to pay, so if people are paying to play for a *chance* to win tickets to purchase something that they would otherwise have to pay linden for in world to obtain the same item or type of item, then that's a violation of the policy posted as I read it.

With every one of the games i have you are guarenteed 1 ticket no matter what the outcome. Whether it be the slot machines or deal or decline and such. while some games are still based on random outcome. some are semi skill based.

when i release the payout script. people should be able to convert their games to the ticketek system. with hopes that people will see the return of great games to SL that were taken from us with the ban