Basic Membership = Illegal Alien

Thats why we all pay attention to the asset server so much lol

Ah yes. My body parts folder is very full as well.

Very nice that you are fine with your terms, but the average dictionary sees it different. You are a customer, if you pay someone for goods or services.

People, it is not that hard to understand. If you pay membership and/or tier to Linden Labs, you are their customer. Be it through tier on an estate you bought (while not being premium even) or by paying membership fees to be premium. Linden Lab receives money from you, so customer you are. Period.

Do you rent land from a landlord, you are their customer. You have no customer relationship with Linden Labs, but for example with Desmond Chang. So if you need support, you ask Desmond. Not Linden.

Personally I rent on estate AND am premium. Since I pay Linden Labs I can call them for support. And the few times I needed them, they were there. And I would not want to wait a day longer, because customer from another company (Desmond, Anshe, whoever) get support as well. THEN I would stop paying my membership. Because it would be unfair.

Marcel

Regardless of definition of terms, LL gets direct money from some non-premium "customers" too. It is in LL's best interests to offer some support to along with the accounts they are giving people for the reasons I outline in previous posts.

EDIT: Though how you can have an account with a company but not be a customer is interesting. Perhaps the dictionary definition does not reflect the business of today.

One thing has me a little baffled with this thread...

What was the problem that the OP had, that he needed to contact support?

Apart from a few constructive suggestions, this is just another "rip the sh*t out of LL" thread. You all agreed to the TOS, you all knew the deal. Get over it.

I've had my rant, I'll now go back to sleep.

There are not that many people I know that say the dictionary is wrong in order to prove their point

In short: LL is providing you a service without asking you for a payment. I mean, seriously, what more can you wish for? Support as well? Geez, am I so wrong in finding that too weird for words?

Marcel

I have a 1967 Collins Gem Dictionary here that defines customer as:

One who enters shop to buy esp. regularly

The key word here being the "to buy" not "has bought" but "to buy" as in prospective purchaser. The older the dictionary the more accurate the word in this case as the word "customer" probably comes from the "custom" of going to the same shop regularly.

I don't get anything for free - I am a premium member too.

Isn't it strange that LL lets all these people use the service for free too? But they do don't they? Geez whats wrong with that?

Gabriele,
My posting was not that clear, when I typed "you" I ment basic members in general, not your person in particular. Because upto your last posting I did not know you were premium or not.

Since I do not want to get into comparing as many dictionaries as we can to prove a point, lets agree to disagree in what defines a customer.

As can be read in older postings of mine, I am against the whole basic account anyway. 3 months (for example) basic, to try out SL, then pay. Just as Wow lets you try a week or so to see wether you like the game. But as long as they let people play for free, I find it beyond belief that some of those people expect a good customer service as well.

And as said earlier, I do not find myself better or above any basic member, to each his/her own choice. But I do think that people who pay a company for a service are entitled to support, and those who dont pay, are not. Any support they do get, is something to be grateful/glad about.

Marcel

Gabriele,
One addition to the definition of customer:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=customer

Guaranteed to give you a laugh

Greetings, Marcel

Well I was not sure whether you thought I was a free account and was aiming you comment at me - so I just pointed out my views are from the point of view of a premium member too.

Well I was not the one getting all dictionary in the first place but I am happy to drop it now.

My point was only that LL should give some free support because it will help LL - not because the free people should have it for any other reason. I never said anyone was entitled to anything.

Not you maybe, but when you read the different threads this issue comes up, you see the same calls for support from basic members over and over again, like its a right or so.

Your point of it meing good for LL, I can only agree to. As a business owner myself, I give support to whoever needs it. Doesn't matter wether it is a freebie they got from my shop, or a "second hand" couch they bought from another resident. Its my product so I will support it. And I trust that in the end, it will be good for my brand name as well. As long as they ask in a normal, civilised way, I will support them. Hell, this week I gave support on a Hipporent system, to a woman who purchased a prefab shop with me If I can help out, why not. But then again, I am not a commercial company, that's why I still need to buy linden dollars once in a while instead of cashing out

Have a nice day, Marcel

Regardless of whether buying L$ is "paying LL", you could get support for $1/month which is simply not an insurmountable amount for *anyone* no matter how much you try to twist and bend it.

If you buy L$, you definitely do get support in case something goes wrong (payment info problems, double billing, L$ didn't arrive, etc) so there really is no way that you can complain that you're not getting support for what you pay for. You paid for LL for using a service (the LindeX, which is a separate service from the grid), you get support for that service.

And why only complain about getting support? If you buy $195/$295 worth of L$ and spend it on clothes/furniture/gadgets, you're "paying LL for service" in your narrow-minded view so why not demand a free sim for that month, after all according to you you're paying for it. Please do ahead and point out the obvious flaws in that, then use it on your "I deserve support because I spend L$" claim and watch i t go up in flames as well. You didn't pay LL anything, you spent money that you received goods for.

You too Marcel, it was nice debating with you

OK I am not complaining at all and I am not twisting or bending anything. See my previous post, I am a premium member and I am saying it benefits LL to give support to free accounts not that free accounts where people are paying absolutely nothing are entitled to it. People who are paying nothing are lucky to get into SL at all but it is done because it benefits LL. The reasons are the same.

If you are paying real USD into SL even via the Lindex I do beleive you should be able to get some technical support (not necessarily the same level) after all you are paying LL for the same service - just in a different way. The Lindex does not exist by itself as an end to itself only to function to support the economy of SL. The two are linked, if a person cannot use SL they will not use the Lindex either.

Its both unfortunately people dont look at LL being the recipient of the cash.

I pay LL 48 bucks to buy lindens on the lindex - did that can't pay the baron
I pay the baron 48 bucks for the land fee - when the baron gets it he can pay LL if he does not he has to dump his sims and move on or not buy anymore sims from SL and pay those insane hosting fees

In any event as a result of my existance and any one else who pays for land in some fashion inside SL if they buy lindens to pay for the land and then pay the rent to a land baron LL is getting paid twice.

If there was no way for me to pay then I would not own land. If enough people could not pay the baron would be out of business, and abandon the payments on the sim and walk away from the server he rented. No one is going to be eternally paying for something they can no longer use. If they dont want the sim anymore they give it back to SL and move on. Now if the feeling is that land barons should be out of business then not supporting free accounts is one way to help make it happen. However it does in the end hurt LL's bottom line as thats one less baron paying them server rental fees.

If company B bulk-orders from company A, and you buy from company B then you're in no way entitled to support from company A. You're *not* their customer, company B is. Should you have any problems then company B is who you should turn to and if necessary they can escalate things with A.

If you end up paying your landlord more than it would cost you to have the same amount of land from LL, that's your own choice. The fact that your landlord profits off of you still doesn't make you LL's customer and it's your problem if your landlord has you convinced that he/she doesn't need to support you at all despite the fact that you are paying your landlord for it.

Anshe does/did have the right approach... people buy/rent land off of her and she has dedicated staff that are there to support Anshe's customers with their problems.

That is a reading comprehension issue I believe.

I intentionally left the tech issue out of this. I put that in the proper thread.

QFT !

That is put in understandable language what many people tried to say I guess... you are entitled to support, but from the entity you do business with!

Just because you take RL money and send it over to LL doesn't mean you're doing the same thing with it as those who are under "contract" to provide reliable, scheduled income to finance the machine. Those L$ you buy are poker chips you can do whatever you want with, IF you want, or even change them back into RL money and put it back into your RL bank account. Try doing that with tier fees once... Sorry, but there's a HUGE difference there. L$ purchases are totally random and reversible. Tier fees are scheduled, mandatory, non-negotiable, non-exchangeable, non-refundable, period.

But the key is that the landowners are the ones paying money to L -- whether they have you renting from them or not. They have invested more in LL's platform here.

LL makes its money from land sales, tier/isl fee payments and memberships. Therefore LL rightly treats these people differently from those who choose to not own land. LL has limited resources, and in terms of placing the cutoff line somewhere, this was as good a place to put it as anywhere else.

This is true. Assisting a landlord in paying their tier to LL (aka renting) doesn't add to the amount of land that LL has sold. They're just sharing the bill with the landlord for land that was already previously purchased... so it's not a net increase for LL. If you buy a region, or turn some non-estate land from yellow to not yellow on the map, NOW you've added additional income to what LL was already earning, and you get a little more support for doing so.

QFT!! That is the perfect analogy. A true SL Illegal would not even be entitled to enter SL, let alone be entitled to any benefits.

And you can submit a ticket if you are a basic account - I did it when I was basic.



With most of my other computer products, both at home and at work, I do not get support unless I pay for it in some way by actually purchasing the product and/or paying for a support contract. And usually, the more money I am willing to pay, the better my support is. Since Basic accounts can get a small level of support, I think LL is handling it just fine.


Regarding ticket response - I have always had some kind of a response within 24 hours and quite often within just an hour ot two. Granted, there were a few times that I didn't like their answer or knew that their answer was flat wrong, but at least they responded. And on my latest two tickets, they have not only responded quickly but actually fixed the problem quickly - and yes, I did have a brief fainting spell because of that.

LittleMe Jewell;

I can submit a ticket as a basic as long as it's about:

I can't create an account
It is telling me I can't login from this location
My account has been shut off
Region is offline
Estate manager (w/basic acct) needing rollback
I can't add a payment method
LindeX Tier Review
Manual Age Verification
Bank registration submission
Contact the Linden Dept of Public Works
Submissions for I-World Expo


That's it!

I am having a HORRIBLE tech support issue which has all but crippled me inworld due to the latest updates that were shoved up us a few days ago. If I go anywhere where a lot is happening (most gatherings, any place with lots of graphics running, etc...) I may only last for about 30 seconds before I crash. THEN I can try to log in but will be denied at least 3x while it falsely tells me that the region is down. THEN I will get back in but if in the same place I just crashed at I will crash again unless I try to TP home right away - which by the way will also crash me. I run higher end games with full blow graphics on them and even participate in some intense online gaming with no problems. I've been using the same Viewer that was the default download for me when I was "born" 1-10-2008.

Honestly, if I had run into this back then I probably would have lost interest after about 30 minutes and uninstalled SL. I am really into it now but since the update I've force to basically live in quarantine at a remote island where there's NOTHING happening and that way I don't crash....as often.

I've tried 1.19.0.5, 1.19.1.4, Dazzle, all the same results. I've even tried a blank hard drive and did a complete new install of XP with all the updated chipset & video drivers available. If I can get AmericasArmy to run at 90fps with the highest screen resolution available ingame and maintain a ping under 100 on most servers there, I should be at least able to go into a sim with more than 5 people in it and not crash here. I could before the updates at least......

There is no support for Basic....my issue is not covered.

Oky, now you have a question here that someone might be able to help you with. Previously it was just a rant.

No, he posted in the technical issues forum about it first.
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Thank you Tori!!