Philosophy in the New Metaverse ~ Where do you stand?

On the subject of the inapplicability of the left/right dichotomy in SL . . .

Some of you (those who went to Linden OHs anyway) will probably know what I am referring to here.

An extreme left wing SL group to which I do not belong, but which is affiliated with one to which I do, was quite active in the last stages of the "stop Zindra and adult content" movement, showing up en masse at a few Linden OH and making a great deal of noise, carrying plackards, etc.

This group was definitely in the "left wing libertarian" camp (more or less where that stupid political compass thing put me). Their basic stance was that Zindra and AC represented a sort of fascist imposition (which, arguably, it did, in some regards). The rather bizarre thing that struck me about it at the time was that their position was, in effect, aligning them with SL "capitalists" (i.e., landowners and content providers), both in practice (both they and many of the latter were essentially shouting the same thing at Blondin and Jack), and by implication, as a lack of central control by LL would mean that power would inevitably devolve into the hands of those who owned the land. Not exactly a "classic" left wing position to take.

SL politics makes strange bedfellows indeed.

What this points to, of course, is the fact that there really are NO mechanisms to be truly "collectivist" in SL. Group owned land is STILL ultimately in the control of whomever is paying tier. Even groups are "owned" by an individual or individuals.

To this extent, the whole system, and the technology that enables it, is weighted against the left/libertarian option.

I think the title should have read "Politics in the New Metaverse" there is very little in the way of philosophy here in my opinion.

Reminds me of apocryphal sports rules:

Rule Number One: Read Rule Number Two.
Rule Number Two: There is no Rule Number Two

Perhaps it might be fair to say that politics has become the "New Philosophy" since the end of WWII and the metaverse is just a branch on the tree.

Spoken like a true Politician.

Thanks! It's in my nature.

Another random thought . . .

The libertarian left, at least as we have been laying it out here, should probably acknowledge ownership of "griefing." By this I mean not the isolated moron who shows up at a sim wearing a huge floppy dick and spouting racist drivel, but rather the "classic" griefer of the sort reponsible for the assault on Anshe Chung, or associated with groups like 4chan, 7chan, and (maybe?) Woodbury University.

It is interesting to note that the "classic" griefer tends to focus her/his hostility and attacks on "immersionists." In some ways, this kind of griefer parallels the leftist bomb-throwing anarchists of the beginning of the last century.

If I am right, this is another example of how the classic left/right dichotomy breaks down in SL, as groups like the chan and (maybe?) WU also frequently host racist or homophobic elements.

This post shows exactly why putting people into broad categories is a bad idea. It might seem to fit on paper but it almost always is surely wrong.

Yep, agreed. Hence my qualification in the second sentence, and my final comment.

And I am still mildly fuming over the way that the Political Compass mischaracterized me.

A test that short probably can't be very accurate.

It classified me as far more 'libertarian' than I am, and my guess is that this is because they gave too much weight to the sex questions (for which I did give libertarian answers, due to my strong belief in privacy for consenting adults). So those 'strongly agree' and 'strongly disagree' answers pushed my results further to one extreme than was really warranted.

Something similar is probably true for others in this thread who've noted that the Compass results surprised them.

This is pretty interesting. I'm not sure what is going on here.

It seems anomalous that the compass ranks me deep in Libertarian territory--despite my anti-adfarmer (and anti-banker, anti-casino, anti-griefer, etc.) stance. At first I thought, well, sure: SL isn't RL--there's much more at stake in RL, and individual rights actually matter there, as opposed to just wanting fewer rules in a glorified video game.

But I'm fairly pro-regulation in RL, too. I'm kinda glad my upstream neighbor can't dump benzene in the brook--glad enough that I don't really mind not being able to club his baby seal even if it ventures into my yard. So now I'm thinking the instrument is just flawed.

Still, even if I really were an extreme Libertarian (in RL or SL), that wouldn't make me an Anarchist. There's a difference between not wanting reigns on individual liberties and wanting a reign of terror by individuals. Griefers don't exercise individual liberties for their own sake but rather to harass others; when they grief an empty sim, it's just practice.

Ding, ding - I think we have a winner! Who would have thought it, the instrument is flawed?

I would bet you one shiny Linden Dollar that the makers of the Compass test self-identify as libertarians.

And thus what would ordinarily be called 'progressive' thinking gets labeled 'Libertarian' by their test.

Can we even call sl a creation of "progressive" thinking or a level playing field to invite progressive thinking?
It is corporate and that by definition is conservative.It's computer-oriented so it's left of central, it's globally populated but governed by an american majority and mainstream thought so its even got a hint of modern democratic ideology.It's confusing.
Maybe we need some researchers in here!

No, the whole system is weighted against any sort of politics at all.

There no mechanisms, after all, for residents taking decisions about who should pay what level of tier, for example, nor on what that tier should be spent, nor -- other than jira votes, which may or may be taken into account -- on anything else much that affects "our world". Nor are there any formal mechanisms for affecting any sort of decision-making process at Linden Labs, or none of which I'm aware, anyway. If there are any, they clearly weren't much in evidence over Zindra or the Open Space/Homestead business. Nor are they in much evidence over parcel script limits (remember them?).

Other than buying your own land and taking decisions -- in whatever way -- about what should go on there (within the limits of LL's terms and conditions, over which you have no say, of course) and what should be be built and so on -- I just don't see how anything much resembling a RL political process or decision gets much of a look-in here.

Well, er, I do have an earned doctorate that is a research degree. (Though not in political philosphy or sociology.)

Anyway, in that post I wasn't so much saying that SL is a creation of progressive thinking (though it may be), as that the Compass testmakers seem to highlight the term "Libertarian" where "progressive" might make more sense for what they purport to measure. And I was speculating that this might be because they consider themselves to be Libertarians.

But in context of SL itself, no avatar needs to own land or groups. Every actual need in SL is satisfied by the system: you don't have to go fish mining to keep your avatar fed. You only "need" things to keep you entertained. So I would claim that everything you discussed is merely a hobby, or something imposed from outside the context of SL itself.

Aggravation is the only harm possible in SL.

Prims Are Theft

Not to residents who have too much money or affect invested in SL. And not to Linden Lab.

Not that such folks don't "have it coming" and all, but they can be harmed beyond mere aggravation.

I'm sorry, you're reading what I wrote backwards.

I didn't mean "Nobody can be harmed, it's only aggravation".

I meant "All harm in SL is caused by aggravation".

the way I see it, political leanings are like feudal lords whose territory shifts with acquisitions and divestments, meanwhile the "common folk" have relatives that live all over, regardless of borders...

or to put it another way... it's like food... you might like most Italian food but despise a certain dish, or like certain dishes in Thai cuisine, and of course it can make a huge difference simply by who's doing the cooking and how it's prepared

I would agree that mostly when people say they are being harmed in SL, it is purely just aggravation. But I would distinguish between aggravation and things that effect RL somehow (stealing content, etc). Also there is a difference between just being aggravated by your neighbor and being purposefully griefed by him or her.

I'm sorry, you've got it backwards too.

Augmentationist scum!

There's a difference between accidental and deliberate harm, yes.

What am I getting backwards??



I think women should leave their boobies the way nature intended!!!! (OK all joking aside, I am looking forward to that singularity thing you keep ranting about, but until then, I do have to inhabit reality for the most part )