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Philosophy in the New Metaverse ~ Where do you stand?

Qie Niangao
Coin-operated
Join date: 24 May 2006
Posts: 7,138
09-06-2009 05:37
From: Desmond Shang
... seeing as how Prokofy cannot respond here it's kind of hard to have any kind of fair discussion about it.
Quite agreed. In my case, I only mentioned Prok tongue-in-cheek, because of my historical ties to the Soviet Union--according to that blog.
From: someone
Clearly my left/right oversimplification is flawed; this bothers some of you more than others.

I would put out this challenge: if someone were to make an slpoliticalcompass.org, would it read left/right and authoritarian/libertarian too? What would the questions look like?

Am I off base on the left/rightness of say, anonymity? Or what of what I call 'scam banking' and 'stock exchanges' ~ would a strict libertarian see those as 'freedoms' for those who wished to participate?

I challenge someone to cook up a short list of maybe 10 questions and weight them somehow ~ any takers?
Left/right doesn't bother me, and to be honest, I'd want empirical data before concluding that two or more dimensions would account for a significantly larger share of the variance than does one.

I suppose the scientific approach is to ask a gazillion possibly relevant questions to a gazillion residents and see what if anything emerges from a factor analysis. (Alternatively, one might use more powerful statistics to predict something specific, as opposed to measuring which measures predict each other.)

Presumably those "possibly relevant questions" would be various formulations of those already posed in this thread, which are pretty related to the perennial favorite topics in this forum: Landowner rights vs the tragedy of the commons; Content creator profits vs customer utility; Immersion vs Augmentation; LL rules vs avatar rights; contributor vs corporate; PG vs Adult; etc.
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
09-06-2009 05:50
From: Desmond Shang

I would put out this challenge: if someone were to make an slpoliticalcompass.org, would it read left/right and authoritarian/libertarian too? What would the questions look like?

Voice/Text
Banners/Explorers
Just-a-game/Its-a-platform
Porn/Purity
...
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Smith Peel
Smif v2.0
Join date: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,597
09-06-2009 06:44
This was interesting but not exactly surprising.

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Smith Peel
Smif v2.0
Join date: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,597
09-06-2009 07:04
From: Qie Niangao
In my case, I only mentioned Prok tongue-in-cheek, because of my historical ties to the Soviet Union--according to that blog.


Link please? LOLz
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Skell Dagger
Smitten
Join date: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 1,885
09-06-2009 07:11
From: Argent Stonecutter
Voice/Text
Banners/Explorers
Just-a-game/Its-a-platform
Porn/Purity
...
I sense a Myers-Briggs test result opportunity, although the final item needs refining so both options don't begin with 'p'. I suggest 'v' for 'virginal', and changing the third options to, simply 'game' and 'platform'.

So one might ask if you're a VBGP or a TEPV, or any variant in between. ;)
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Nika Talaj
now you see her ...
Join date: 2 Jan 2007
Posts: 5,449
09-06-2009 07:43
-4.25, -3.9 here. The other test on that website, Iconochasms, is longer but more interesting: http://www.politicalcompass.org/iconochasms

Some questions:

SL is mostly for socializing
SL is a good place to make money
I have SL acquaintances from many countries
Owning/renting land is necessary to enjoy SL
I go to n SL arts events per month
Fixing bugs is more important than a new avatar mesh
I spend over half my SL time building and/or scripting
I collect freebies

Seems like it's easy to invent questions that sort SL residents, but coming up with 2 axes so that those questions actually classify residents into 4 interesting types is hard!

Maybe Augmentation -- Immersion, and Builders -- Consumers?
:)
Smith Peel
Smif v2.0
Join date: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,597
09-06-2009 08:25
From: Argent Stonecutter

Voice/Text
Banners/Explorers
Just-a-game/Its-a-platform
Porn/Purity


From: Skell Dagger
I sense a Myers-Briggs test result opportunity, although the final item needs refining so both options don't begin with 'p'. I suggest 'v' for 'virginal', and changing the third options to, simply 'game' and 'platform'.

So one might ask if you're a VBGP or a TEPV, or any variant in between. ;)



Awesome idea :D The two V's and two P's are confusing though... I propose:

Voice/Text
Explorer/Banner
Game/Platform
Smut/Decency

So I would be a VEGS ;) (INFP in RL BTW)


EDIT: Oh crap, I just realized I still had two P's lolz
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
09-06-2009 08:35
From: Skell Dagger
I sense a Myers-Briggs test result opportunity, although the final item needs refining so both options don't begin with 'p'. I suggest 'v' for 'virginal', and changing the third options to, simply 'game' and 'platform'.

So one might ask if you're a VBGP or a TEPV, or any variant in between. ;)
TExx

Don't forget

Combat/Social
Linden/Griefer
Blingtard/ARCist
Frankenstein/Proportional
...
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"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."

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Scylla Rhiadra
Gentle is Human
Join date: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 4,427
09-06-2009 08:44
Just did the stupid Political Compass test. It appears that I am somewhere to the left of Marx and Hegel, and just a bit more "libertarian" than Mikhail Bakunin ...

Economic Left/Right: -9.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.15

Maybe this makes me an anarcho-feminist? :rolleyes:

My problem with the questions was that they were all pretty extreme in their perspective, so I tended, often, to find myself "strongly" agreeing or disagreeing. Or maybe that just means that I am an extremist? :)
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Scylla Rhiadra
Smith Peel
Smif v2.0
Join date: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,597
09-06-2009 08:50
From: Argent Stonecutter
TExx

Don't forget

Combat/Social
Linden/Griefer
Blingtard/ARCist
Frankenstein/Proportional
...


Now it is just way too confusing. We gonna have to boil it down to the 4 most essential! :D
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Jig Chippewa
Fine Young Cannibal
Join date: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 5,150
09-06-2009 08:51
My God, there's some long words in this thread aren't there?

I'm warning you if you're just about to post, you'll need a thesaurus and a dictionary! You can't just stick your tongue out at this lot and get way with it!
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Darien Caldwell
Registered User
Join date: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 3,127
09-06-2009 08:52
I guess i'm not quite in the middle. Interesting test, but I wonder how accurate it really is.

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Desmond Shang
Guvnah of Caledon
Join date: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 5,250
09-06-2009 08:55
From: Nika Talaj
-4.25, -3.9 here. The other test on that website, Iconochasms, is longer but more interesting: http://www.politicalcompass.org/iconochasms

Some questions:

SL is mostly for socializing
SL is a good place to make money
I have SL acquaintances from many countries
Owning/renting land is necessary to enjoy SL
I go to n SL arts events per month
Fixing bugs is more important than a new avatar mesh
I spend over half my SL time building and/or scripting
I collect freebies

Seems like it's easy to invent questions that sort SL residents, but coming up with 2 axes so that those questions actually classify residents into 4 interesting types is hard!

Maybe Augmentation -- Immersion, and Builders -- Consumers?
:)


Let's run with this. Anyone else have questions to add to this?

Axes: I think there is a lot to learn from politicalcompass.org, insofar as the locations of known people on their graph 'makes sense' in a political sort of way.

For this world... why don't we emulate that. Not ideal but there's precedent, certainly. How about SLeft / SLright, and for the vertical axis "SLauthoritarian / SLibertarian" just as they do?
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Jig Chippewa
Fine Young Cannibal
Join date: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 5,150
09-06-2009 08:57
From: Scylla Rhiadra
Maybe this makes me an anarcho-feminist? :rolleyes:
:)


Now this is where I wish I could squeeze THAT statement into the kinda thing I say and do in real. "Anarcho-feminist" is a hyphenated expression I love.
In real, I'm only at the level of "love-glue-gunning" - or is that the same thing??

Imagine a rolls eyes little face coz I 've forgotten how to make one for a post.
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Fine Young Cannibal
Scylla Rhiadra
Gentle is Human
Join date: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 4,427
09-06-2009 09:04
From: Desmond Shang
Let's run with this. Anyone else have questions to add to this?

Axes: I think there is a lot to learn from politicalcompass.org, insofar as the locations of known people on their graph 'makes sense' in a political sort of way.

For this world... why don't we emulate that. Not ideal but there's precedent, certainly. How about SLeft / SLright, and for the vertical axis "SLauthoritarian / SLibertarian" just as they do?

I'm not sure that I don't think that immersionist/augmentationist isn't a more telling axis than authoritarian or libertarian.

A few quick questions:

-- Simulations of antisocial or violent activities in SL are JUST simulations, and have no impact in RL.

-- Linden Lab should not rely upon abuse reports, but should take a more active role in policing the grid.

-- My experiences in Second Life profoundly influence my mood and thoughts in RL.

-- People should be up-front about the differences between their RL selves, and their SL identities.

-- Landowners in SL should be the absolute arbiters of what content and behaviours are permitted on their land.

-- If you run across something in SL that you find offensive, you should just TP away.

-- The "log off" button is a more than an adequate defence against obnoxious or offensive behaviours directed against you.
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Scylla Rhiadra
Scylla Rhiadra
Gentle is Human
Join date: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 4,427
09-06-2009 09:08
From: Jig Chippewa
Now this is where I wish I could squeeze THAT statement into the kinda thing I say and do in real. "Anarcho-feminist" is a hyphenated expression I love.
In real, I'm only at the level of "love-glue-gunning" - or is that the same thing??

Imagine a rolls eyes little face coz I 've forgotten how to make one for a post.

This is what you want: just copy and paste.

:rolleyes:
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Scylla Rhiadra
Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
09-06-2009 09:11
From: Smith Peel
Now it is just way too confusing. We gonna have to boil it down to the 4 most essential! :D
Be my guest, but my point is that slicing things up like this is always going to put people who think they're at the opposite extremes in the same box.
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"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."

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Scylla Rhiadra
Gentle is Human
Join date: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 4,427
09-06-2009 09:15
From: Argent Stonecutter
Be my guest, but my point is that slicing things up like this is always going to put people who think they're at the opposite extremes in the same box.

What about a 3-D graph, adding the axis of immersionist/augmentationist to the two that Des has proposed?
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Scylla Rhiadra
Smith Peel
Smif v2.0
Join date: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,597
09-06-2009 09:17
From: Argent Stonecutter
Be my guest, but my point is that slicing things up like this is always going to put people who think they're at the opposite extremes in the same box.


Point taken!


And my little ferret friend doesn't like boxes I have gathered... Maybe there is a box for that ;)
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Smith Peel
Smif v2.0
Join date: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,597
09-06-2009 09:18
From: Scylla Rhiadra
What about a 3-D graph, adding the axis of immersionist/augmentationist to the two that Des has proposed?


Augmentationist makes me think of boobies.
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Scylla Rhiadra
Gentle is Human
Join date: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 4,427
09-06-2009 09:19
From: Smith Peel
Augmentationist makes me think of boobies.

:rolleyes:

We can dress you up, but we just can't take you ANYWHERE, can we?
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Scylla Rhiadra
Smith Peel
Smif v2.0
Join date: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,597
09-06-2009 09:20
From: Scylla Rhiadra
:rolleyes:

We can dress you up, but we just can't take you ANYWHERE, can we?


Consider me chastised :D
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
09-06-2009 09:26
From: Scylla Rhiadra
What about a 3-D graph, adding the axis of immersionist/augmentationist to the two that Des has proposed?
Apart from everything else, it's keeping "left" and "right" as one of the axes when most of the things people associate with "left" and "right" are meaningless in SL. Changing that to "social/business" would help a bit.
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Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/

"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."

Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23
Coonspiracy Store - http://xrl.us/coonstore
Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
09-06-2009 09:27
From: Smith Peel
And my little ferret friend doesn't like boxes I have gathered... Maybe there is a box for that ;)
If anyone tries to stick me in the boxes marked "holism" and "reductionism" I'll bite them.

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Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/

"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."

Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23
Coonspiracy Store - http://xrl.us/coonstore
Desmond Shang
Guvnah of Caledon
Join date: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 5,250
09-06-2009 09:29
From: Argent Stonecutter
Apart from everything else, it's keeping "left" and "right" as one of the axes when most of the things people associate with "left" and "right" are meaningless in SL. Changing that to "social/business" would help a bit.


There's some wisdom in this (discounting the fact that the whole exercise is probably flawed, anyway).
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