No end in sight to flying problems

Today took my small two seater jet out for a spin......

twice crashed because I hit parcels which were full.

Im assuming this nonsense has been reported as a bug. I wanted to report it myself because Im sick and tired of the ludicrous barriers to aviation in sl.....

The problem is the system for reporting bugs is so complex. Is it deliberately set that way to put people off reporting?

It's pretty poor not being able to move through empty sky because a parcel is full.....

And needless to say the same old boring guff with crappy banlines. Crashed out of sl when hitting one. So that's three flying expeditions ruined.....

When is this legalised griefing going to end.? And when is SL going to become aviator friendly ?

The oldest unfixed critical bug in Jira: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-22

It makes me nauseous just looking at that link what a hopelessly complex and cumbersome system.....

I see this problem has just 'celebrated' it's second anniversary though...

I had a similarly frustrating experience the other day, trying to fly from my place in Watchman, to the hangout in Allana. It's not a long flight, a couple of minutes, and a lot is open water. But between banlines, and full parcels I couldn't get there after 6 tries. I wouldn't mind so much if I would have bounced off and kept on going, but I kept either getting stuck or getting thrown from my ship. There has to be a way to compromise so people can get the security they want, and aviation can also be permitted.

Jira is the best and cleanest bug reporting and tracking system I have ever used, not excluding Bugzilla. If you think Jira is bad, what I have to use every day would explode your brain into a billion shards of burning eternal pain.

Seriously, Jira is easier to use than most forum software.

Just log in and click on the "vote for it" link.

Another good move by lindens would be to shutdown the most famous legitimised griefing tool the 'ban line'....

....that would be a major hinderance to not just aviators but the entire exploring community who actually want to get out and see the builds and features of sl out of the way.....

But they already DID shut down ban lines and make them worthless, for all intents and purposes, to placate flyers in SL. Unless you get your kicks by barnstorming over people's rooftops at treetop level and flying between buildings and under bridges, ban lines are NOT a problem for flyers.

Ban lines only affect up to 50M above the terrain surface. Want to avoid them? Stay at a reasonable altitude.

You can fly anywhere and NEVER hit a ban line, if you just stay 51M or higher above the terrain, unless you have pissed off a specific parcel owner enough to get banned by name, in which case that ban affects to 768 M above the terrain.

That's the point. To computer types like you, JIRA may be very easy to use, but for luddites like myself, it's very tedious. I don't think it shoul be used as a general customer service tool.

It's not good as a general "I want to report a bug tool". It is fine as a bug tracking tool.

Flying a helicopter I sometimes fly low and slow, not to snoop but to see the sights. Generally I try to stay above 50m when over a built up area, but sometimes, if the sim is empty at the time, I will make a low pass to look at the build. Also sometimes I hit banlines on open areas where I may fly along the road. I don't have a problem with them per se, but I would like to just bounce off if I hit them and continue on, instead of getting stuck and having to relog.

I think there are probably a significant number of landowners who have ban lines on and don't realize it. If LL doesn't have ban lines disabled automatically when a property is transferred, they should.

I really wonder when I see people who have ban lines around empty lots, land they have for sale, or they have a skybox above the ban lines.

About the weirdest thing I've seen was security orb in an empty lot guy. He has a store in a skybox over a thousand meters up and a security orb at ground level protecting... nothing.

Internally, I guess it may be great. But yes, there should be an easier way for users to report bugs. Then LL can triage and JIRA them as much as the TAO lets them.

Erm, what?

Ban lines were originally 15 meters over grade. They were increased to 100m over grade, briefly, then reduced to 40m over grade (which is still 25 meters higher than they were originally) without increasing the unaided flying height to match, so you have to continually tap the PgUp key while free-flying to avoid running into them... which is particularly noxious on some laptops where PgUp is Fn-Up.

That reduction to forty feet, AFTER they were increased to the ludicrous value of 100 feet, is the only incident I can think of that you could be referring to... and that was hardly a case of them being "shut down" since they didn't even revert to the 15m they started with. So the only *net* change in ban lines as long as I've been here is to make them MORE obtrusive to travel.

On top of that, ban lines on parcel boundaries are infinitely high. If you're in a plane they will usually (but not always, see SVC-22) be ignored above 40m. If you're free-flying, you have to fly around.

Tedious? It's simpler than filing a support ticket or an abuse report, and almost as simple as posting a message to these forums. To report a bug, you follow two directed steps (what are you reporting, and how serious it is) and fill out a form where almost all the fields are optional.

Argent's right - JIRA actually isn't that bad compared to a lot of the other stuff out there. That's not to say that it's great but it's a dream compared to what we have to use at my RL job..

The trick, which is easy with a little practice, is to learn what can be ignored. Mostly, it's the summary line, in bold near the top, then the description a bit further down.

If it has a "Linden Lab Issue ID" right above the description, it's been "imported" into the LL-private JIRA - the things the code monkeys actually use.

All the stuff between the summary and the description can pretty much be ignored, unless you're feeling geeky. Below the description is just comments from various people - just like a little forum..

/me has suggested a bunch of times over the past couple years that we get a JIRA sub-forum here. A place where people can raise visibility of their favorite bugs and where others can triage stuff before heading over to JIRA. edit: er.. and added a JIRA for it, too: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-224

No it's not, support tickets have easy to understand drop downs, abuse reports too despite the myriad of options.

Priorities, project type, is it a meta issue? These aren't straight forward for people who just want to report the issue.

Two minutes later someone will swoop in and close it as a duplicate.

Yes, then there's the completely unfriendly way reports are closed.

I wonder about this too... At my lot in Amydira there is a 1028 for sale and they have this huge for sale sign and I went over to look at it and it has ban lines around it.

If you are trying to sale it, wouldn't you want someone to have access to it?

Yeh? I have more trouble filling out support tickets, the way the dropdowns change as you fill it out and the way they require you to fill in stuff that doesn't matter.

So? That saves you from having to search for the issue you should be voting for.

They're either trying to annoy neighbours or more likely, they've forgotten the banlines are set.

I can guarantee you that if I asked people to fill out this at work we would get a massive drop in reports, absolutely massive, it's hard enough getting people to bother to phone or email problems, they wouldn't do this, all people want to do is report a problem. In the background for tracking purposes it's a fine tool, not as a front entrance.

The way the dropdowns change is an annoyance, but it's still easy to follow.