Are people holding SL back?

"Holding back" seems to refer to some sort of solid objective to aspire to. I don't see that being the point of SL. SL is merely a platform/program/game/floor wax. The users make it what it is, and it will go as far as they take it. I don't create anything, but when I wander I see remarkable things. I see crap too. But someone took time and effort to make it all, more than I am willing to do. And what I percieve as being junk, may bethe best effort the make can put forth fo a variety of reasons.

I don't know what reputation SL has with other gamers, I don't play any of them. I really don't know what the outside world in general knows either, I don't pay much attention to out of world stories about SL, nor do I really care. SL needs new people to keep going. Some maybe are coming in on the sex angle, bu I think that they soon find that the cartoon debauchery gets old quick if it is the sole reason for being in SL, and will either leave, or find other things to keep coming back.

So are the people holding SL back? Only those with the last name of Linden, in my opinion.

OK, now I officially think you're a troll.

/me strolls off in search of a different thread.

I don't know, but I think the whole furry subculture is all about cartoonish looking anthropomorphics, starting with a specific artist in the early 1980's. So yes they do want to look that way.

As for your picture - there is hope!



I think we'll be seeing a LOT of this avatar and will get eventually sick of it. The scripts and texturing are just amazing. Sadly it's the only breed this vendor has unless you want bunnywabbits. It's too cute for me really, but it's so amazing I love to run around in it. Another very kind person on the forums pointed me to it.

One thing I would like to express is, the fact that you aren't a creator of any sort doesn't take away your right to have an opinion on somene else's work. While outright slagging is not necessary, some people do defensively ask the "Well what have you made" comment, when someone says they dont like something. We all have differing tastes and perspective, and there is nothing wrong with expressing them, as long as it's done tactfully.

Thankies.

There is lot of really wonderful content creators no one or few notice.
Yes there a whole lot of business who sell BIABs, freebies, stolen textures from Googling, resell other transferable products by someone else with or without their permission.
Then there some like me who can do certain things but can't do others but still does it anyway because I enjoy it, yes my prims are often crooked but there some pretty cool things one can make with crooked prims too.
I get a lot of compliments on what I do but very few people buy anything I do, I guess it's not the point.
Personally I like to see a whole lot less same old same old, less ripped off content that I think is truly bad but I don't have much control over it.
Blurry textures is due to lag, most people use way too many scripts, prims and some too big resolution sized textures thinking better quality graphic will make things look better.
Truth is most creative people here create for themselves, and not for profit, for pleasure and sometimes it's not that great to me either but it doesn't matter what I or anyone else thinks
eventually they will improve their skills if they keep doing it long enough.

I think it could better be seen as saying that SL's lack of social manipulation, thereby allowing human nature to run unchecked, has begun to hold it back. And that might well be true.

Blurry textures are not always lag, I know the difference, if mentioning furries makes me a troll, than I better find a bridge and start eating people and wow, thats a good lookin dog! Kind of has that unnaturaly natural look, but thats not bad, I hope the creator does a lot more.

The lack of social manipulation is exactly what has allowed the creativity to exist. Whether it is in building or in the social interactions with people around the world.

It did at one point, but now it's started to slow down. Newbies are more reticent to create with the big creators already existing in the world - this is not to say they can't do so or even succeed, but nonetheless some are more reluctant to try - and the increased number of people involved in clubbing/dancing is removing the incentives to create other things. (Why build a castle when all you will be doing in it is generic chat, the same as you would in your 512sqm apartment?)

I think the only new people who may be put off by the established creators are those who are totally inexperienced and have illusions of making money quickly and easily. Anyone who really wants to be a creator, probably has some experoence in some aspect of it, or at least the artisitic tendancies, and realize that you have to start somewhere, and will get better over time, and will get the gratification from it. I think more are like me, just not interested in that aspect of SL, because, why should I spend the time building that castle, if it isn't an interest to me, when my 512 aprtment wil do just fine?

Right, but other games can engineer that type of thing by using reward mechanisms as well. I mean, for example, there is a huge frenzy (as in "major websites being brought down by rushes for beta access" of interest at the moment in littlebigplanet for PS3 - because of its support for user generated content and ability to create areas. And there's no claim of ability to make money with littlebigplanet. So why aren't all those people in SL already? I think it's because LBP also has a "game" aspect which makes sure that interaction with the areas people create actually _matters_ - while in SL, it's just a chat background.

There is definitely too many low quality builds and smut in Second Life.

We need higher quality Smut!

1 user agreed.

1 word: freebies.

I have wonderful ideas on creative, artistic smut but I don't have the resources or know how to do videos.
I had this idea about creative animation of bondage scene on boat and of two male avatars together on melting, psychedelic bed,etc but I don't know how to put it together.
Even if I could somebody probably could do it better or find fault in it.

That's the only constant in SL. There's always something better, and always someone who's gonna complain. I have a shop, and I have to deal with it too.. people who are unsatisfied because <product> doesn't do <archane thing>. There's no way to please everyone. And you have to decide if you're in SL to try and please everyone, to try and please most people, or if you're only in SL to please yourself. There's no wrong answer.

I personally try to please the most people possible, but that's ususally a vehicle to pleasing myself. Your mileage may vary.

There's an old saying:

You can please some of the people, all of the time.
You can please all of the people, some of the time.
But you can't please all of the people, all of the time.

thats the "mainproblem" and thats why sl looks like what it is, crap, overloaded, horrible lag. reminds me to prebuild hobbysites at geocities optimized for ie and 800x600

but yes there are nice, well developed places out too.

- there is no mapeditor/animator exept the simple buildtools we all know.
- .obj or .3ds import as other gameengines have doesnt exist for sl - ac3d can convert "meshes" to primitives, but i havnt tried yet - sculpties uses a lot of triangles - yes the engine renders triangles - not prims (primitives)
- the avatarsize is another problem and simple to fix.
- lighting is horrible, the source is more a sun/pointlightclone (lightcookies would help)
- one "headlighted cool person" can "damage" all your lightsetups cos of the limitation to 6 lightsources in view.
- realtime shadow doesnt exist and it would be interesting what trees would look like with.
- baking lightmaps to map and/or objects(buildings) isnt possible.
- scripting - no commend for most cases.
- physics are often strange - but a problem for most engines
- particlesystem, ... hm
- sound is limited -> no pitch, 10 sec. ...

sl renderer is much different to nextgen_gameengines, but also much different to lets say ids old - quake 3 engine
sl give players more rights as every gameengine does
one single person can lag down a healthy server to a crawl

but i enjoy sl, i love it to chat with my friends -> 3d chat

...or is this post holding SL back?

I understand where the OP is coming from completely. I rent land and also build/create a bit of this and that, including simple, yet attractive houses that I sell for as low as 99L$. They are not SL's most gorgeous buildings, but they look nice and are not eyesores. I created them to combat what I refer to as the epidemic of ugliness that I see around SL. Mainland is the worst, but I have also had to tell many a renter NO, you can't have that building here, or it has to be a skybox. It amazes and disturbs me that with such creators as Creative Fantasy, Ace's Spaces and so many others, residents still rez hideous freebie, high-prim builds, or glorified plywood boxes. People seem to have such low standards, and don't care about how a build may look to their neighbor. My new guideline that I tell people is, would you want to live next to it in RL (or a fantasy RL)? If not, best ask me before setting it up. I am not referring to personal taste - not everyone likes gothic castles, or ultra-modern geometric mansions, or Victorian homes - but rather the quality of construction and appearance within that style.

IMO it is textures that make a build. No matter how well-constructed, a building with plain or ugly textures will be ugly. On the other hand, a gorgeous texture on a basic square or rectangular home creates a decent build, even if it's only, say 6 prims.

How do you foster the development of good taste in residents? I don't know, but if anybody has suggestions, let me know!

Not true. I've seen plenty of builds with a very limited and basic set of textures that look great as well as builds with hideous chintzy textures slapped over a few prims with no thematic connection whatsoever. What makes it for me is the aesthetics of a design. I'm not against sophisticated textures but they do need to be applied intelligently. I'd much rather see a well-designed low-texture build than a poorly thought out 'box' that relies on textures to 'fill in the gaps' so to speak. But that's just me.

todays cr@ppy builder might just be tomorrows master of the craft...
ppl arent just rezzed with the ability to artfully create things that please and excite...

every single creator of anything good, once built something poofy... and was proud of it..

some ppl have natural ability and move on faster than others to create some of the most awesome builds... some stagnate.. some muddle along in mediocrity...

some just steal nice stuff and palm it off as their own..

and in all this muddle and percieved mess is the glory of creation. the minds of ppl made tangible by the medium of SL

i say praise this mess

QFT. But I have to admit, it took me a really long time to come to that realization. If a building doesn't work, a fresh coat of paint isn't going to fix it. And these days, I'm most often impressed by builds that use little or no textures at all, maybe just a few well-applied bumpmaps. I expect this to be increasingly true as rendering sophistication very gradually increases, with Shadows, a Materials model, etc.

That's not to say I don't still slap a coat of textures over a quick build, myself. A little tweaking and alignment and it looks better than 90% of the stuff out there. But if I'm really building for quality (unfortunately a rare luxury for me these days), textures are the very least of it.

atleast my crap is my crap and if anyone else finds it crap, they can crap it

the tools are limited, the engine is limited, 100% user content so no great pre rendering like the latest dx10 games

there are some great builds in SL that would look *%^$# brilliant in a fps game engine, but this is SL...
if something is holding sl back, it`s LL

slapping 10 cubes together as a gun and sell it for 1500L isn`t holding sl back but stupidity by the people buying that crap so that more crap appears, that they buy again...

tho i must admit i`m kind of suprised people actually buy that crap at times, but i think that`s a discussion for the dumb people thread

Yes, there is a lot of crap, and Sturgeon's' Revelation does seem pretty obvious in SL. Anyway, there are various reasons for this.

1) Learning Curve. You don't become an even avarage builder overnight, unless you are exceptionally smart, at least slightly talented, and are already somewhat accustomed to the mechanics involved before you decide to become one.
For some, finally finishing their first, second, third or whatever build within the qualitive parameters set by themselves (it turns out better than expected) will bring them in a minor state of euphoria, which makes them bring it on the market, even if it is actually still not of a quality some others would expect. However, if even only one or two of the objects or items sell, this will give the creator more confidence, and inspire to create more, developing his or her skill in the process, and the quality of his or her products will increase with this skill. Half a year later, the creator will probably notice the sub-par quality of that first product, and take it off the market (it doesn't sell anymore anyway) or make it a freebee.

2) Taste & Style. Some have it, some lack it, some don't care, but it's always different from anyone elses. If something is unique enough in it's style, than those looking for that style will be less critical over quality and be happy to have finally found what they were looking for. If something of better quality comes up, they will replace it, or if their funds allow for it they will have it custom made some time, but they'll see it as an acceptable placeholder.
Some people's style also goes deeper than some others. Two different people might make a model of an F16 airplane. One is great at texturing, and aligning prims, the other not so much, but knows better how the different parts of the model look and are placed to one another. The quality of the build will now completely depend on the customer: one might stand in awe about the fluid textures and lack of seemlines between prims important on the first one, while another is very critical about the placement of the wings, shape of the cockpit, size of the tail etc, and thinks the second is the better.
Yes, in an ideal world the two creators would've cooperated, or would've had all skills involved to make everybody happy. We don't live in an ideal world.

3) SL quirks. Ask any builder: Prims have a tendency to shift and rotate, it seems to have gotten worse since Havoc 4. These shifts and rotations are very small, like, only 0.05 degree rotations, and 0.005 meter shifts. It's hard not hard to imagine what these do to a surface that's meant to be completely flat. It seems only a small difference, but the seemlines they create are not. These things can completely ruin an otherwise perfect build.

4) Setting and atmosphere. To some a house is just that: a house. For others, a house is a place to live, a place where they feel at home, a place of warmth. You have to identify the feelings something gives to you, and be able to translate them into something you can create in SL. This is probably the hardest part of building, advancing the object from just an object to something that people can identify with, something that gives them a certain feeling.
More even, as a builder you'll want to target that feeling to specific people, those who you wish to be your customer base, while making it less of interest to those you don't target. If your customers can identify with oneanother, they will form a customerbase and return. If your customers cannot identify with one another, they will quarel between eachother, feel your atmosphere wasn't right afterall, and leave, looking for greener pastures.