Are people holding SL back?

LOL!! Awww, c'mon Yosef, come play! Trolls need to be fed every once in a while, besides, holding back can be detrimental to your health.

Heyyyy! My partner luffs me! And if I create a shirt for him that to others may seem poopoo, he thinks it's boofoo and wears it...then I rips it off him and we get sexees on the jack-aligned blurry textured kitchen cabinets I made.

I'll just change my title and leave it at that.

maybe I can go shopping for a newb skin ....

Holding SL back from...what, exactly?

Your question suggests there's some idealized 'better' that SL has not reached or is incapable of reaching, because it was designed, built, populated, and used by people?

Let's say that every build, script, texture, and avatar was 'perfect', if there is such a thing... then where would SL be?

I guess I don't understand the question.

But it's inspired me to ask one in return -- is SL holding people back?

-Atashi

Maybe only from sleep and getting laid in the real world (It isn't hard, people. Maybe sleeping is.)

I have seen much of Second Life advance, while much more has stayed the same. I meant are the creators and buyers holding us back with bad content.

I hate to ask this.. but are you sure that your "Avatar Detail" and "Object Detail" sliders are up as high as they go?

I know that a lot of circular prims can revert to hexagonal when those sliders are down low.. and that can really make things look iffy.

Graphics usually set to ultra, all sliders up. That's not what I meant.

No Avion- You hit it on the head when you said smug- I was obviously too damn subtle in my post.

The OP is stating that content creation in SL is mediocre at best and uninspired, insipid, unassuming, banal, etc- Yet as someone who is merely human I know I try to make things that are none of that. I haven't hit perfection and no it's a long way up the creative mountain- the travel though is its own reward. The OP however, fails to show actual proof of such lack luster performance by the general building creating population and does not offer any of his/her own creations for comparison.

Don't let such inanity dissuade you- we each have only ourselves to answer to- if you create- do you not do the best you can for you? I for one don't want my name on crap- it may turn out to be crap in the long run- when I see it was crap I pull it- because obviously then I am further down the road. Learning is its own reward.

SL isn't a work of art. It's a community. Do you want Standards Police to go round giving content marks out of ten and deleting anything under a certain level? While you are at it why not ban avatars who can't spell, use grammar correctly, type or make interesting conversation.

Pep (Actually, that might not be a bad idea . . .)

I think I see your problem. Have you talked to a doctor about it? There are several treatment options available now. Bloodpressure perscriptions are the biggest culprit for causing this otherwise healthy and active young and middle-aged men.

So why does everyone assume if you are having cyber-sex you are not having physical sex? Is it really that difficult to comprehend you can do both with the same person or another and even at the same time?

Another question is.. "where are you hanging out in SL?" If you spend a lot of time in sandboxes, then yes, most of the stuff you see is going to look like freebie garbage.. because most of the people who frequent public sandboxes either have no money, or are still learning how to build in SL. Those tools aren't super easy to use.

SL is actually REALLY limited in terms of it's building abilities. I have seen some truly amazing builds.. but they are only truly amazing BECAUSE the rest of SL isn't. Primitive-based 3-D modelling went out in the 90's when Meshes and Patches and Lathing and Splines and Path Extrusions became all the rage. Even still, a lot was doable with Primitive-Based modelling, but for some reason, in Second Life, we are forbidden simple boolean tools like "cut, intersect, merge, etc".. things that my machintosh was able to do in 1995.

Additionally, thefact that we're reliant on OpenGL, means that there really are "limits" in terms of lighting, shading, etc.. especially in terms of realtime rendering. And so much of the "Cool" stuff in SL has to be "prerendered" in programs like photoshop, or 3d packages.. And that means modelling something in SL, then modelling it's twin in another program, lighting it, UVMapping it, rendering out all the resultant textures, then uploading all of those to Second Life.

It's not an easy task.. and it's not a cheap task. While there may be a few hundred people in SL who are adept at weilding opensource/freebie software like Blender.. most of the rest of us are limited to either high-end rendering packages (like Maya, ZBrush, etc) or low end solutions like "painting in" shading in Gimp, or perhaps Photoshop. (not so low end).

So much of what you see in SL is made by people who don't have money. Those who can afford it, buy, those who can't.. build their own. And not everyone is a "jack of all trades".. some have strengths in modelling, but can't texture.. some can texture but can't script.. some can script.. you get my point.

Not ONE of those steps is "easy".. The simple easy of programs like "SketchUp" (for example) is incomparable to the building process in SL. Adding in the fact that nothing in SL ever seems to be "to scale".. that the building system is metric, rather than imperial.. that avatars are always 'too tall".. that animations have to be made OUTSIDE SL and then imported, and those animations may not suit the avatar's shape, etc etc.

At the end of the day, building.. creating in SL, is hard work. And it takes a LOT of time, and focus, which MANY PEOPLE simply don't have to devote to "a video game". Whether it's because they're only in SL 3 hours a day, or because they don't have the attention span after a long day at the office to fight with pixel stretching on some clothing.. You must remember (as in ANY game modding situation) that the "modders" are well outnumbered by "the players"..

Even at the BEST of times, we don't get paid very well to create for SL. in fact, MOST content creators in SL don't make more than they spend on the land their store is on. We're not professional game designers.. (well, most of us aren't).. most of us are just struggling each day to have a little fun, and make something cool.

The fact that SL appeals more strongly to adults than teens, and the fact that SL is very popular among women, and provides no real "combat" or decent "vehicle/weapon" backbone.. means that most of the "guys" who do those really awesome game mods.. aren't likely to spend much time here. This is why you don't see much in the way of awesome.. because the backbone of SL just isn't there for "awesome"..

I think we do really well with "Mediocre"..

And I'm sure that in the next couple of years, a lot more of that backbone will be ungraded, as SL moves from an "3d MUSH" to something a bit more about experimentation and design.

I have mixed feelings about this thread.

I agree that much of Second Life can be the lame old same old. There is so much unused potential going untapped. But I spend a great deal of time on builds, step back and try to analyze them, and realize they too are mediocre at best. So what? I should go slit my wrists now? I haven't forced them on anyone.

There are three main things mentioned as problems:

Blurry textures. I don't notice these, really. I remember in (amateur) game level design we were intentionally supposed to blur the textures - those in too much focus have bad artifacting when the engine tries to render them at different distances. So maybe this also happens in SL, or is a carry over from that tradition. Really I'm just not seeing them all over as implicated.

Misaligned prims. Yes I do see these somewhat, but I am aware there is such a thing as prim drift and I try not to let that detract from my taking in the overall design or flow of the build. That is what I feel is really lacking in builds, especially my own - a sense of good design. I can design with a brush or pencil because of the way my arm flows, but I can't seem to do it smoothly with geometric primitives. If the design of the build is pleasing the prim alignment becomes irrelevent -- or should!

Laggy scripts. I tend to agree with this one. Scripts are way out in arcane-land to me. I'm grateful if something works simply, and wish that many scripts were never created. I'd like to see more scripts that mimic real life behaviors and less freaky stuff like bling, the profusion of HUDS, spy devices, etc. Most people are at the mercy of the scripters as this is the steepest learning curve in SL I believe.

Anyway - I scarcely think people are holding SL back if one can't build as well as another. The solution is to be in world yourself with the greatest designs and educate by example.

I never said I was some super great builder, I never said you weren't. If you were offended, I don't really care, that wasn't the point.

http://img118.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wanderoz4.jpg

There's something I made, head to toe, aside from the skin and the walk. Was about 2-3 years ago maybe, but there ya go. Looking back, yes it could use some work. Shadows for one. But it's at least somewhat original. It's a bit blurry, from an ad, and if that's not good enough, hell, I'll put it back on and take another pic.

So there, you can flame it if you want, I really don't care. The way I see it, if you're putting it out there for all to see, any comments are welcome.

And no, I won't put up a pic of something bad. My luck the person I shoot will come here, recognize him or herself and get depressed 'cause I'm smug (haha).

The point of SL is to provide a platform for people to have fun being creative, NOT to conform to any one individual's subjective opinion about what's good and what isn't. What kind of world do we want to have... one where people are encouraged and applauded for giving it a try even if they don't have much experience or a very critical eye, or one where people just learning to create (or creating to the best of their personal ability) are scorned and ridiculed and encouraged to pack it in?

Its the way SL is built and the various problems with functionality, tools and expense of participating in SL business, vs. time and return on investment, that holds PEOPLE back.

AND again, I'm not saying everyone sucks! I understand the money issue, the time issue. I'm not attacking anyone's creativity either. I'm sure someone's built a really nice stove. While not creative, 'cause it's a damn stove(unless it's some kind of never been in the real world stove)it could still be somehow amazing in it's own right.

None of this was intended to offend! I'm talking about the people who make guns out of 10 poorly shaped prims and really bad textures that end up looking like a box of tissues gun that lags you, and sells it for 1500l. The people who save pictures from deviant art and sell them for more than the upload cost, or slap a band logo on a texture in the place it might go on a shirt, but then make no shirt, just color it in. The people who don't bother getting avpainter to line up their clothing textures, so they have a leather jacket on the front of their shirt, and some kind of almost cloth looking back and sleeves. This all wouldn't be as big of an issue for me if these people diddn't sell them!

I'm not ATTACKING anyone here. It was a simple question. If you think not much can be done in SL, go to Rustica, the wastelands, lots of other places. And no, I don't expect everyone, or even most people to be nearly that good.

The 'holding back' part is partly how new people will see SL. If while browsing MMORPG.com or any site sort of similar (and yes I know SL itself isn't a game) after all the arguably aweful things SL is known for they see the above mentioned, no one is likely to come here.

Would a BBQ count?
http://uncensored.xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&file=item&ItemID=591324

Might want to check this out: http://tinyurl.com/3gl6ya

OK, I see your point. Sure, it'd be great if every new resident only saw the best 10% of SL's locations, builds, and products.

LL tries to do that. So far, they have missed the mark, big time. They're still trying, though.

There is no way that the content of SL can be brought up to the highest standards across the board. Sturgeon's Law, y'know. (Oh, I suppose you could do something like institute a Product Control Board, or require all content to be approved by LL before you could permanently rez it, or sell it. But that would utterly destroy the creative engine.)

The real solution to the problem you pose is to make sure that newcomers get a look at the "Best of SL" early on. Please take any suggestions you have along those lines and propose them at Blue Linden's or Jack Linden's office hours.

That barbeque grill is teh awesome!

THERE.COM

...I rest my case.

Winter, alot of that stuff does look good.

Lindal, yes.

But let's look at a big group in SL, furries, or, anthros all together. I'm not wanting to get into a discussion of what anyone thinks of them, but lets look at their avatars.

At best, I've seen them look as Looney Tunes quality. I forget the name of them, I don't like'm, but they are well built. Most others tend to look like mascots. Why hasn't anyone made a realistic looking one? Atleast somewhat? All I ever see are mascots and looney tunes. Maybe thats what they like? I don't know. However I am sure it'd be possible to make something along the lines of this
http://www.textbooksrus.com/book_pics_large/0142501522.jpg
I'm sure a lot of them, the real animal lovers(not like that! or maybe like that) would appreciate it. Not the best artwork in the pic but you get the idea. Would be great for those immersion breaking RP furries! Really tho, I don't know if they like the mascot look or are stuck in the copycat mode a lot of builders (not all! don't cry!) fall into.

But I do think a realistic anthro would be cool. Even the best are still very cartoony to me. All of the werewolves I've seen also look a bit off, sometimes more like gorillas.

Vote with your Lindens- if it's crap don't buy it. As for the noobs- we all were at one point- they're on their own other than what a few helpful souls will do for them. I toss goodies at folks when I come across them- and I know I am not the only one.

I throw out freebies too, sitting around telling them how awful I think they look wouldn't help.
Usually only after talking to them a bit, no freebies for, "WHERE TO SEX PLZ-CAN I HAS MONY!?????"


and a big ICK to there.com