Second Life Forums Archive - Is it right to do this as a seller??

Virrginia Tombola

Equestrienne

Join date: 10 Nov 2006

Posts: 938

10-17-2008 13:46

I think the Issue boils down thusly:

1) Secondlife has a permissions system in place, with which creators can decide whether an object can be copied or transferred.

2) Some items such as textures or pre-fabricated building parts need to be sold in a full perm condition, or they cannot be used as part of a creation then given/sold to someone else. Creators of these items typically ask their customers not to resell these items "as is", but only as part of another creation, and not in a full perm condition.

3) Accidents happen, people fail to set the permissions correctly. Sometimes SecondLife glitches and permissions change after they've been set.

Thus we have freebies, or even just resold items that were never intended to be either, because of situation #2 and #3. In fairness, many who are giving away unintentional freebies have no idea that the creator hadn't intended it to turn out that way. If they are unfamiliar with the full ramifications of the permission system, they might think that #1 covers all issues.

Others seem to feel that's fine, on the basis of "if I can do it, it's okay". Mr. Recreant has a bit of a legal background, so perhaps he could enlighten us as to whether that sort of defense enjoys success in court or not.

At the end of the day, most creators make so little (usually at best a hundred or so USD a month) that legal action is rather unlikely. So, it's up to individuals people in Second Life as to whether they will respect the wishes of people who make things or not.

Will the local police knock down your door and arrest you if give away a texture the creator asked you not to? No. Are you helping discourage others from making textures and selling them? Yes. And in that sense, you would be doing all of us a disservice.

_____________________

Horses, Carriages, Modern and Historical Riding apparel. Ride a demo horse, play whist, or just loiter. I'm fair used to loiterers.

http://slurl.com/secondlife/Caledon%20Eyre/48%20/183/23/

Ricardo Harris

Registered User

Join date: 1 Apr 2006

Posts: 1,944

10-17-2008 14:29

From: Kidd Krasner

No, he doesn't. He's being a troll. See http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-an-internet-troll.htm, for example, and please stop responding to him. He'll starve and move on.

I'm hurt. You don't wish to respond to me, what will I do now? How can I ever continue?

/wipes away tears

sniff, sniff*

Ricardo Harris

Registered User

Join date: 1 Apr 2006

Posts: 1,944

10-17-2008 14:38

From: Ciaran Laval

Ricardo has long held content creators in contempt ...

I don't actually think Ricardo was talking copyright initially, he seemed to be talking more along the lines of content creators telling him what he can and can't do with an item that has transfer permissions. He did make an exception for items with no transfer permissions.

Very perceptive.

Unfortunately, you're only one in ten in these forums. The rest just lunge in if and when I don't see it their way -which is just about every single time. The thing is I wouldn't have it any other way, ever.

Argent Stonecutter

Emergency Mustelid

Join date: 20 Sep 2005

Posts: 20,263

Meanwhile, back in JIRA...

10-17-2008 15:08

Something I proposed almost a year ago to let people explicitly license assets in a way that can't be removed or hidden from future buyers...

http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-701

_____________________

Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/

"And now I'm going to show you something really cool."

Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23
Coonspiracy Store - http://xrl.us/coonstore

Brenda Connolly

Un United Avatar

Join date: 10 Jan 2007

Posts: 25,000

10-17-2008 15:14

From: Ricardo Harris

Stop trying, Bree is the one that impressed me tonight. See? I even called her Bree.

You're slipping, Harris.

_____________________

Don't you ever try to look behind my eyes. You don't want to know what they have seen.

http://brenda-connolly.blogspot.com

Ricardo Harris

Registered User

Join date: 1 Apr 2006

Posts: 1,944

10-18-2008 15:21

From: Brenda Connolly

You're slipping, Harris.

Just for one night.

I would never change, they wouldn't love me here if I did.

Is it right to do this as a seller??
Virrginia Tombola Equestrienne Join date: 10 Nov 2006 Posts: 938	10-17-2008 13:46 I think the Issue boils down thusly: 1) Secondlife has a permissions system in place, with which creators can decide whether an object can be copied or transferred. 2) Some items such as textures or pre-fabricated building parts need to be sold in a full perm condition, or they cannot be used as part of a creation then given/sold to someone else. Creators of these items typically ask their customers not to resell these items "as is", but only as part of another creation, and not in a full perm condition. 3) Accidents happen, people fail to set the permissions correctly. Sometimes SecondLife glitches and permissions change after they've been set. Thus we have freebies, or even just resold items that were never intended to be either, because of situation #2 and #3. In fairness, many who are giving away unintentional freebies have no idea that the creator hadn't intended it to turn out that way. If they are unfamiliar with the full ramifications of the permission system, they might think that #1 covers all issues. Others seem to feel that's fine, on the basis of "if I can do it, it's okay". Mr. Recreant has a bit of a legal background, so perhaps he could enlighten us as to whether that sort of defense enjoys success in court or not. At the end of the day, most creators make so little (usually at best a hundred or so USD a month) that legal action is rather unlikely. So, it's up to individuals people in Second Life as to whether they will respect the wishes of people who make things or not. Will the local police knock down your door and arrest you if give away a texture the creator asked you not to? No. Are you helping discourage others from making textures and selling them? Yes. And in that sense, you would be doing all of us a disservice. _____________________ Horses, Carriages, Modern and Historical Riding apparel. Ride a demo horse, play whist, or just loiter. I'm fair used to loiterers. http://slurl.com/secondlife/Caledon%20Eyre/48%20/183/23/
Ricardo Harris Registered User Join date: 1 Apr 2006 Posts: 1,944	10-17-2008 14:29 From: Kidd Krasner No, he doesn't. He's being a troll. See http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-an-internet-troll.htm, for example, and please stop responding to him. He'll starve and move on. I'm hurt. You don't wish to respond to me, what will I do now? How can I ever continue? /wipes away tears sniff, sniff*
Ricardo Harris Registered User Join date: 1 Apr 2006 Posts: 1,944	10-17-2008 14:38 From: Ciaran Laval Ricardo has long held content creators in contempt ... I don't actually think Ricardo was talking copyright initially, he seemed to be talking more along the lines of content creators telling him what he can and can't do with an item that has transfer permissions. He did make an exception for items with no transfer permissions. Very perceptive. Unfortunately, you're only one in ten in these forums. The rest just lunge in if and when I don't see it their way -which is just about every single time. The thing is I wouldn't have it any other way, ever.
Argent Stonecutter Emergency Mustelid Join date: 20 Sep 2005 Posts: 20,263	Meanwhile, back in JIRA... 10-17-2008 15:08 Something I proposed almost a year ago to let people explicitly license assets in a way that can't be removed or hidden from future buyers... http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-701 _____________________ Argent Stonecutter - http://globalcausalityviolation.blogspot.com/ "And now I'm going to show you something really cool." Skyhook Station - http://xrl.us/skyhook23 Coonspiracy Store - http://xrl.us/coonstore
Brenda Connolly Un United Avatar Join date: 10 Jan 2007 Posts: 25,000	10-17-2008 15:14 From: Ricardo Harris Stop trying, Bree is the one that impressed me tonight. See? I even called her Bree. You're slipping, Harris. _____________________ Don't you ever try to look behind my eyes. You don't want to know what they have seen. http://brenda-connolly.blogspot.com
Ricardo Harris Registered User Join date: 1 Apr 2006 Posts: 1,944	10-18-2008 15:21 From: Brenda Connolly You're slipping, Harris. Just for one night. I would never change, they wouldn't love me here if I did.

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Is it right to do this as a seller??