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Bye Bye Traffic Bots/Camping

3Ring Binder
always smile
Join date: 8 Mar 2007
Posts: 15,028
05-22-2008 07:50
there's more to the all new search than meets the eye. it is actually rather complicated, and while i hate to reestablish a camping argument, traffic does make a difference, albeit minute in comparison to picks.

but, when everyone starts padding their picks, ultimately it will be traffic and a few other little things that decide who ranks where.
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Tegg Bode
FrootLoop Roo Overlord
Join date: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 5,707
05-22-2008 14:08
From: Lindal Kidd
Someone proposed using newbie campers as targets. That might work...

Sign #1:
KIDD'S COMBAT ZONE!
Pay this vendor L$200 for a one hour pass.

Sign #2:
You may shoot at anyone wearing a red TARGET tag!
If you shoot anyone wearing a green CIVILIAN tag, you will be ejected and banned.
You will earn a Proficiency Reward of L$10 for every 10 kills.
No area weapons allowed.
NO NUKES!

Sign #3:
Want to Earn Money?
Touch this sign for a TARGET tag.
You will earn L$2 for every ten minutes you remain in the sim.
BONUS! Earn L$5 for standing on a Target Pop Up Pad until you are killed.
Be quick! Be wary! There will be people trying to kill you.


Nice, only problem was I couldn't get people to pay $5L for 24 to shoot campers, maybe with better marketing it might work, if you did a whole theme sim like that with buildings to hide in etc, remember to turn fly off too. and perhaps have some of the zone as no build so they would have to use melee weapons on each other. maybe have it so you can earn the money the camper has if you kill them, and they lose their money if they get killed? Calll it Killer Camping Cash :)
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Tegg Bode
FrootLoop Roo Overlord
Join date: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 5,707
05-22-2008 14:08
From: Puppet Shepherd
Well no, they won't have to, when they have all those idle camping bots that they can stuff full of picks!

Time to increase the size of my Puppet army. ;)


At least Pickbots don't need to be logged in.
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Nih Grun
Registered User
Join date: 30 Apr 2008
Posts: 58
05-22-2008 14:21
From: Phil Deakins
I know there are 2 threads about the RC7, but I think this particular feature of it is good in its own thread, in case it gets missed in the other threads.

The Places tab now returns the results from the Google search appliance, and the traffic rankings are gone.

In the meeting that I attended, I pushed for either the Places tab to be removed, or for it to return results from the Google appliance. We were told that the tab would have a shiny new html page when you open it (landing page), but that nothing else would change. It seems they've changed their minds.

It means that, when the RC viewer becomes the standard viewer, there will be no further use for traffic bots or for traffic camping.


That. Is. Fantastic.
Wildefire Walcott
Heartbreaking
Join date: 8 Nov 2005
Posts: 2,156
05-22-2008 14:26
It costs very little for someone to run a bunch of bots. Did LL say that traffic wasn't being computed at all? (I.E. would no longer be a factor in New Search results?) Because so long as it counts and it's free, people will exploit it.
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Cristalle Karami
Lady of the House
Join date: 4 Dec 2006
Posts: 6,222
05-22-2008 14:26
Good riddance. And now we'll get a better look at real concurrency/signups.
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Solomon Devoix
Used Register
Join date: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 496
05-22-2008 14:42
From: Usagi Musashi
And wait until june july when all the under 18 are inth game and farming money..........Thats what LLABS is banking on.........

Okay, I'm going to bring this up again, as it seems to have been largely ignored... has there been some announcement about merging the teen & regular grids? I know the rumor has been going around for a while now, but what EXACTLY is this comment supposed to mean?
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From: Jake Black
I dont know what the actual answer is.. I just know LLs response was at best...flaccid.
From: Solomon Devoix
That's a very good way to put it, and now I know why we still haven't seen the promised blog entry...

...the Lindens are still waiting for their shipment of Lie-agra to come in to firm up their flaccid reasoning.
Ghosty Kips
Elora's Llama
Join date: 2 May 2008
Posts: 2,386
05-22-2008 14:46
From: Solomon Devoix
... has there been some announcement about merging the teen & regular grids?


Gaaa ... I sure hope not. No, in fact, I hope that never happens.
Chris Norse
Loud Arrogant Redneck
Join date: 1 Oct 2006
Posts: 5,735
05-22-2008 14:57
From: Solomon Devoix
Okay, I'm going to bring this up again, as it seems to have been largely ignored... has there been some announcement about merging the teen & regular grids? I know the rumor has been going around for a while now, but what EXACTLY is this comment supposed to mean?


Usagi is a noted doomsayer and one who never has anything good to say about SL or LL. Take anything he says with a grain of salt.
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MortVent Charron
Can haz cuddles now?
Join date: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 1,942
05-22-2008 14:59
From: Chris Norse
Usagi is a noted doomsayer and one who never has anything good to say about SL or LL. Take anything he says with a grain of salt.


yeah there are several that worry about the influx of 'innocent' children swarming the adult grid during summer vacation
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Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
05-22-2008 16:00
From: Wildefire Walcott
It costs very little for someone to run a bunch of bots. Did LL say that traffic wasn't being computed at all? (I.E. would no longer be a factor in New Search results?) Because so long as it counts and it's free, people will exploit it.
They didn't say that it won't continue to be used in the Google search - I don't expect them to change that. But it's effect is minimal and not worth the trouble of having bots - and *definitely* not worth paying campers for.
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Tegg Bode
FrootLoop Roo Overlord
Join date: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 5,707
05-22-2008 16:21
From: Ghosty Kips
Gaaa ... I sure hope not. No, in fact, I hope that never happens.

Well while ever our verification system remains just a "click if you are 18+ and you really are who you say you are" system it's happening now anyway.
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Tristin Mikazuki
Sarah Palin ROCKS!
Join date: 9 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,012
05-22-2008 16:39
I bet before the new system is out there will be bots ready for it.

Heck if its just using google search that would take all on 10 min to code lol
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Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
05-22-2008 16:44
From: 3Ring Binder
but, when everyone starts padding their picks, ultimately it will be traffic and a few other little things that decide who ranks where.
Traffic won't do that. All traffic is, is a few IBLs. They are not differentiated from IBLs from other sources, such as Picks. In fact, they are not as useful as Picks IBLs and others, because they don't impart the amount of 'juice' that other IBLs impart.

Each page has a 'juice' score, which is used as a ranking factor - it's one of many ranking factors. Links impart that juice, so pages with many IBLs acquire more juice to impart via their OBLs. A page that links to others doesn't lose much of its juice through the links to other pages, but it does impart juice that way. It means that different pages have different juice scores, and the higher the juice score, the slightly better the page does in the rankings.

I've not tried to explain that fully. If you are interested, then do a search on Google for PageRank, and read about it. PageRank is what the juice is called for Google's web engine. Although one of their founders (Larry Page) invented PageRank - it's named after him - Google doesn't own the patent to it - it's owned by Stanford University. The appliance documentation states that they use such a system, which may be PageRank itself, or it may be something similar.

The reason I went through all that is because the 12 traffic pages don't acquire much juice, because, as far as we know, they are only linked to from one page, which itself is only linked to from one page, which isn't linked to from any pages. So the traffic IBLs pass very little juice on when compared to other IBLs. The traffic pages are good for a few Picks with good link text (parcel name), whereas other pages are good for that, plus they pass more juice on.
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Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
05-22-2008 16:44
From: Tristin Mikazuki
I bet before the new system is out there will be bots ready for it.

Heck if its just using google search that would take all on 10 min to code lol
What use would bots be?
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SuezanneC Baskerville
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Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
05-22-2008 17:14
Some folks might user bots to be green dots on the map.
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Usagi Musashi
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Join date: 24 Oct 2004
Posts: 6,083
05-22-2008 17:22
From: Solomon Devoix
Okay, I'm going to bring this up again, as it seems to have been largely ignored... has there been some announcement about merging the teen & regular grids? I know the rumor has been going around for a while now, but what EXACTLY is this comment supposed to mean?




Meaning LLABS is monitoring accounts locking them if they feel something is not right wth the accounts. The mergering of the two games is stil a possiblity, because of how they are trying to mainsream the game into everyone home in ether a buyers market, coffee chatter, or a ad driven system in the for of brand names......... The teen game and adult game will be together the signs are already showing but when is the questen.
MortVent Charron
Can haz cuddles now?
Join date: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 1,942
05-22-2008 17:31
From: Usagi Musashi
Meaning LLABS is monitoring accounts locking them if they feel something is not right wth the accounts. The mergering of the two games is stil a possiblity, because of how they are trying to mainsream the game into everyone home in ether a buyers market, coffee chatter, or a ad driven system in the for of brand names......... The teen game and adult game will be together the signs are already showing but when is the questen.



It's one thing to monitor accounts for fraud and another to even consider merging the two grids.
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Argos Hawks
Eclectically Esoteric
Join date: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 1,037
05-22-2008 17:51
From: Phil Deakins
The reason I went through all that is because the 12 traffic pages don't acquire much juice, because, as far as we know, they are only linked to from one page, which itself is only linked to from one page, which isn't linked to from any pages. So the traffic IBLs pass very little juice on when compared to other IBLs. The traffic pages are good for a few Picks with good link text (parcel name), whereas other pages are good for that, plus they pass more juice on.

So people can take their 100 traffic bots, start a group with each of them (costing just over $36 US), and then use another method to get IBLs for the bots themselves. I'm agreeing with Kitty. Within a month of the RC becoming the main viewer, the search is going to be gamed far worse than anything we've ever seen before. With only 10 results per page and many people unable to scroll through them, the top spots are going to be more valuable than ever. The incentive to game the system has never been higher.
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Tegg Bode
FrootLoop Roo Overlord
Join date: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 5,707
05-22-2008 18:27
From: Argos Hawks
So people can take their 100 traffic bots, start a group with each of them (costing just over $36 US), and then use another method to get IBLs for the bots themselves. I'm agreeing with Kitty. Within a month of the RC becoming the main viewer, the search is going to be gamed far worse than anything we've ever seen before. With only 10 results per page and many people unable to scroll through them, the top spots are going to be more valuable than ever. The incentive to game the system has never been higher.

We could always leave the current system keep saturating as it is doing till every store in search runs 10-100 bots. Then the system will be fair with 100k online, but nobody of course will be able to TP, move or buy anything..........
Look at the online numbers rising, who actually believes the number of "real" residents is rising accordingly, if it's not dropping that is?
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Usagi Musashi
UM ™®
Join date: 24 Oct 2004
Posts: 6,083
05-22-2008 20:44
From: someone
It's one thing to monitor accounts for fraud and another to even consider merging the two grids.


Its getting to the point here changes are coming if and when is what people want to know.
MortVent Charron
Can haz cuddles now?
Join date: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 1,942
05-22-2008 21:17
From: Usagi Musashi
Its getting to the point here changes are coming if and when is what people want to know.


What is required to do so would include policing the content of the entire adult grid turning even the pg areas into viewer restricted parcels.

There would be no way for anyone of X age to even approach mainland due to the hodgepodge of ratings on the lands otherwise considering a pg rated school for child avatars sometimes has to deal with people buying the lots next door for a strip club with huge signs.

Islands would have to be vetted to prove they are child/family safe.

considering LL's standard hands off on content creation and monitoring the content that is being made... that is a whole direction they will not go due to manpower and manhours needed.

Especially since the result is likely to be the barbie and ken beach party look of the competitors
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Tegg Bode
FrootLoop Roo Overlord
Join date: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 5,707
05-23-2008 01:19
From: MortVent Charron
What is required to do so would include policing the content of the entire adult grid turning even the pg areas into viewer restricted parcels.

There would be no way for anyone of X age to even approach mainland due to the hodgepodge of ratings on the lands otherwise considering a pg rated school for child avatars sometimes has to deal with people buying the lots next door for a strip club with huge signs.

Islands would have to be vetted to prove they are child/family safe.

considering LL's standard hands off on content creation and monitoring the content that is being made... that is a whole direction they will not go due to manpower and manhours needed.

Especially since the result is likely to be the barbie and ken beach party look of the competitors

The only way to make it work is have an adult continent and island groups by location on the map. So they need to make that decission and dump a new continent of all mature /adult rated sims, so people who wish to can know that kids aren't going to get into or even see their homes/businesses/sims easily. Then maybe PG can gradually take over the mainland continets as parcels are sold, might as well do it while land is worth SFA anyway.
If they were really keen just copy the existing continents and give landowners the choice to move to identical parcels on the new adult continent by forfeiting the land on the original continent to become PG. It's as much to protect us from kids as them from us.
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MortVent Charron
Can haz cuddles now?
Join date: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 1,942
05-23-2008 01:38
From: Tegg Bode
The only way to make it work is have an adult continent and island groups by location on the map. So they need to make that decission and dump a new continent of all mature /adult rated sims, so people who wish to can know that kids aren't going to get into or even see their homes/businesses/sims easily. Then maybe PG can gradually take over the mainland continets as parcels are sold, might as well do it while land is worth SFA anyway.
If they were really keen just copy the existing continents and give landowners the choice to move to identical parcels on the new adult continent by forfeiting the land on the original continent to become PG. It's as much to protect us from kids as them from us.


Or they can continue to keep them separate and ban the accounts of those that commit fraud in order to get into either of the grids they are not supposed to. Which is the most likely situation.

It's worked fine for this many years, and allows for the freedom that was espoused compared to the other online worlds with user created content ( committee verification before it can be uploaded)
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Bippity boppity boo! I'm stalking you!

9 out of 10 voices in my head don't like you... the 10th went to get the ammo
Tegg Bode
FrootLoop Roo Overlord
Join date: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 5,707
05-23-2008 01:50
From: MortVent Charron
Or they can continue to keep them separate and ban the accounts of those that commit fraud in order to get into either of the grids they are not supposed to. Which is the most likely situation.

It's worked fine for this many years, and allows for the freedom that was espoused compared to the other online worlds with user created content ( committee verification before it can be uploaded)


Yeah except luckily kids get into the Adult Grid easier than Adults could get into the Teen Grid.
There's no penalty for kids getting onto the adult grid except an accout ban on their disposable account.
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