Defending Texture Sourcing....right or wrong?

After reading this entire thread I thought I would try to clarify a few points.

It is true that Ideas are Not copyright-able. That means that I could take a picture or a texture and Look at it and try to reproduce it through my own means and If I do too well of a job of it, then it could be mistaken for the original however if I also possess the PSD layers
and other evidence of the creative process I went through then I would have proof that I did make it. As creating evidence of a creation process is at least or almost as difficult as doing the work to create an original work. You might as well do the initial hard work to do it yourself.

What I am posting here is not to comment on the OP but to comment on some of the other views posted in response. These threads come up from time to time pretty regularly.
And sometimes I would guess that to the casual reader that whoever presents thier viewpoint
the most reasonable sounding is probably right. Or perhaps a convenient mix of this or that persons point of view would be right. While this may be convenient in respect for whatever a person may plan on doing we are lucky that this is actually not the case.

It would be like there were no laws concerning traffic accidents whoever was most able to
reasonably present their case so that it "sounds" the most reasonable would then win.

Fortunately this is not the case there are extremely specific laws concerning traffic accidents. Thus if the more articulate person lies about what happened then a witness or witnesses can give a different account and the event would then be judged based on laws
not influence.
The point is that while many people have very different views on this topic, none of those
views in themselves affect International Copyright Laws.

Which we are very fortunate that some very smart people and "most" of the countries of the world have agreed to.

So if you Really want to make sure your in compliance with something you want to sell
then all you have to do is make sure your in compliance with International Copyright Laws.
Which really are not that complicated when it comes to something that you have not created yourself.
The essence of it is that if You did Not create it then you need the creators permission to
alter, distribute, sell, use as a derivative etc.

Part of the confusion comes into play when a dishonest person deliberately sells something
thay they have no legal right to sell. But...they sell it as if they do and even worse they go
on to tell you that they are also selling you the right to sell it. By duping the uninformed
they are creating a cloud of confusion to hide behind.
Yes there are many websites that provide "free textures". But there is usally fine print
most are only giving permission to use for your own personal use and are Not being given
permission sell or distribute it.
The Free texture resource sites I have seen that really do allow you to use the images any way that you wish are usually raw photos that have been contributed for this purpose.
And in most cases these images in no way comprise a texture you would want to proudly use in SL, as they need to be cropped and made tilable and whatever effects added to it
that would make it into a proper and usable 3d texture.

Beyond the opinions on ethics one may find inworld from others, a texture that is randomly grabbed off the net is most likely Illegal. Not just frowned upon by content or other texture sellers in SL but actually Illegal. Unless the person that grabbed it has express permission to use it for their own purposes.

Some of the links posted here are from the Filter Forge site. Filter Forge is an amazing huge very complex and capable filter creation tool. I had the good fortune to be on the FF
beta team. Recently in their forums there was a big fuss over others not going to any effort
to create their own textures but just selling the presets that come with the program.
Even though all it would have taken is a few adjustments on the controls to make it technically an "orignal" creation. Compared to what we are talking about in this thread
that is splitting hairs. But it is absolutely against the rules to go to the site and "scrape"
textures that are presented on their site. As FF absolutely owns all copyrights to everything on their site.

And when people say that "SL is just a game" it seems that this is most often brought up
when people want to get away with something. If you had a game(not hooked up to the internet) and you took it into your closet at home, you could break the rules of the game to your heart's content and no one would care a bit. But what we are dealing with in SL
are real life as in real people spent real time and effort to create something worthwhile.
And when a person uses another persons creation without permission they are Not breaking rules of SL the game. They are breaking International Copyright Laws.
This is a very important distinction.

While it is true that not all creators whether in SL or out on the internet do not have the
time or money to chase down all offenders, this does not make it right or ok to seize their creations either. The 3D art community is actually pretty tight and much smaller than it first may appear. When a person grabs someone elses stuff to sell as their own it is pretty
transparent and while that person may make a few pennies if they are lucky. A most certain outcome is the loss of respect that will accompany these actions when observed by others. Are a few pennies really worth a person's honor?

And if you are a newer person who wants to do things the right way a pretty simple rule of thumb is: "if you did not make it yourself, make sure you get the creators permission to resell it."

And be wary of people selling big collections of full perms items.

I see now that ALL of the OPs comments on the texture designer's SLX sales pages have been removed. This is a rare move from SLX.

personally, i dont care to take the time or effort to search and upload textures.
if somebody is willing to do that legwork and categorise them for me and whatnot i am more than happy to pay them for it.

Ah, so much drama...over a video game.

Juuuuuuust kidding.

I do think, for realz, that textures will, and have always been pirated--this goes for professional movies, games, you name it. You don't see other cg artists staring at Golum's leather undies thinking...'hey, is that my leather/cloth thexture?' The don't say that, because you can't tell...and who really cares anyway? However, a lot of the time, professionals will create their own custom textures...but if they don't have the time, I'm sure they've all grabbed a rock texture, or a brick texture, or a wall texture...without contacting the creator. It happens...no big deal...it's a freakin' square texture that didn't take that long to set up (for the most part).

The problem is, when someone grabs a bunch of someone else's textures, and begins to market them as their own. This can only be done by a total tardmuffin, and action should always be taken. There is no arguing the correctness of this kind of thing.

Second Life isn't that big yet--it's like buying someones product in Rhode Island, taking a Yellow Page ad out right next to theirs, and selling thier product willy-nilly...what ever that means...I just like saying it.

These are where I get alot of my resource files and still alot of the "free" photos ask that you request permission . Anyone with a knowledge of Gimp or PS can easily take a raw photo file, change perspective to flatten it and then make it seamless by mapping it.There's always a small tab somwhere near the download link that apprises me of the applicable copyright to each photo. Alot of times my texture searches not only involve searching for the right color/medium in a photo but also appropriate copyright permissions.

It's a good responsible habit to get yourself into. Recently i invested some RL cash into a digital camera and now when i go shopping for groceries..or to a wedding..or anywhere..for a walk..up to my uncles cabin.. I take as many high rez photos as I can with the thought "I'll be making this seamless and cleaning it up as an SL texture.'I haven't gotten a copyright infringement warning from Mother Nature yet.

~Lana Tomba

Be careful someone in these threads may just IM Mother Nature and spill the beans.

I hate when people take the same seven freely available prims, mash them together and actually charge money for them. Prims are free!

Ahhhh but your not paying for the prims, it's Intellectual Copyright, your paying for the right to use.

Sorry been meaning to reply sooner, comp issues!

All of my comments were deleted from SLexchange from her discussion threads because they were deemed "slanderous".....i wrote back saying that it is not slanderous when evidence is presented!! I was emailed twice saying "YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED...blah blah blah!". So I guess this texture creator and her posse are protected by SLX for some unknown reason...besides the fact her partner owns that particle script store that everyone uses.

I have been totally ignored and you are right when you say that she has not mentioned one time that she has removed the stolen textures. She wants to sweep it under the rug...lol


Anyway, with all the texture theft and things going on in SL these days, I am surprised and disappointed by the action of SLexchange. I think people deserve to at least know that the creator has a history of stealing textures...or at the very very least let the buyers know that the stolen textures have been removed.

benue,

I am curious to understand what you are saying about copyrights. Copyrights are laws that are about how the actual creator of some content is allowed to control the use of their work. That includes placing the content into Second Life.

Although the laws are very similar in most countries (and most countries have international treaties about it), copyright laws do differ a little from place to place. You seem to have a different idea about copyrights than most people on this forum. May I ask which country you are coming from?

I am also curious about your assertion that Second Life is just "a game"; it sounds like you are suggesting that you don't think laws such as copyright apply in Second Life. (I would disagree with you, and the Terms Of Service that you signed when you registered your account would seem to disagree with you, also.) But I am curious how you feel about the subject and what your expectations and sense of things is.

Has the creator of the allegedly stolen content filed a DMCA takedown notice (or some other action) against SLX? Only the copyright owner has standing to get involved in that way, legally.

The question of reputation of the vendor is another matter entirely, though. SLX does not seem to offer a reputation service, and they are simply not allowing you use their site to post things that are potentially libelous statements. It doesnt matter that you think you can prove these statements -- it's that SLX does not want to get in the middle of a legal battle between you and the other customer.

(And were you really interested in going to court to defend your statements? It's a sad fact that people can get creamed by the costs of legal expenses, when they have done nothing that seems wrong. An important thing to understand is that the law is primarily about intimidation. It's so that people can fight each other without actual bloodshed, using money as a proxy for flesh, and the playing field is far from level.)

If you actually suffered damages from the matter, things would be different. For example, suppose you bought one of these illegal textures from SLX, and then were sued by the real copyright holder, and if certain other factors were in play that are too complex to discuss here, and you could prove all of stuff, then you might very well have a cause of action against SLX. The copyright holder would also probably be able to put SLX out of business for contributory infringement.

But since SLX doesn't represent that comments on their web site are uncensored, it's hard to see how you have standing to use their site to air your indignation that someone (you claim, anyway) is doing something (to someone else) that you think is illegal. SLX probably think it's "liable" to get themselves in more trouble if they allow you to post your comments.

I have no connection to SLX other than being a very occasional customer like everyone else; I'm just trying to guess at a rational explanation for their behavior in this case.

You're suggestion that SLX is in illegal kahootz with the copyright infringer is potentially liabelous, as well. It could be true, it could be indirectly true (a pattern of ignoring copyrights in order to further business), or it could be false. The most obvious place to look would be SLX's official policy regarding the DMCA.

A critique of their practices would be a valuable contribution to the community, and I would encourage anyone to report on it, but I would be very careful about making statements of fact, if I were you.

PS. I am not a lawyer! You ought to consult one if you want to seriously pursue some kind of action against SLX or something.

I believe you are quite mistaken in every way about the above.

I just read everything in the thread again but I may still not have quite understood it all.

It seems as if you found the same textures that this person is selling in SL on the Filter Forge website as examples of what can be done with their software. And apparently she admitted to you that rather than recreating the images herself she merely used the ones in the illustrations to make SL textures which she then proceeded to sell and claim as her own original work.

And you seem to be saying that this is not allowed by the Filter Forge folks. You don't mention having contacted them but it seems as if that would be the first step of anyone who wanted to get involved.

I'm wondering what their response is to the situation?

I visited the Filter Forge website and found their Terms of Use disclaimer (http://www.filterforge.com/termsofuse.html). I also contacted them because this is a topic Ive been curious about for some time and will let you know of their response.

With regards to Intellectual Property (i.e. textures taken directly from the website) here is what is stated:
================
Copyright, trademark and all other proprietary rights in the Content (including but not limited to software, services, audio, video, text and photographs) rest with Filter Forge and/or its licensors. Unless otherwise specifically provided herein or authorized by Filter Forge in writing, all rights in the Content not expressly granted herein are reserved. You agree not to copy, republish, frame, make available for download, transmit, modify, rent, lease, loan, sell, assign, distribute, license, sublicense, reverse engineer, or create derivative works based on the Website, its Products or its Services. Except as otherwise provided, the Content published on this Website may be reproduced or distributed in unmodified form for personal non-commercial use only. Any other use of the Content, including without limitation distribution, reproduction, modification, display or transmission without the prior written consent of Filter Forge is strictly prohibited. All copyright and other proprietary notices shall be retained on all reproductions.
================

It appears to me, taking textures from the website and selling them is illegal. Someone should contact this girl who is selling these textures and let her know that she is in violation...otherwise she may get into trouble. I have seen alot of her stuff online and most looks legit like she made it...but after having read this forum it upsets me to see someone who i thought was bringing their own sole creativity to this virtual world, is actually taking actual textures from a website and claiming she made them on her own. I would suggest looking at Scarlett Crimsons SLX page, Im convinced that the textures are stolen.

if Filter Forge puts a downlaodable product on the internet for anyone to use, and they use it, it is no longer the property of Filter Forge. anything created is original. afterall, it requires personal creativity to obtain an end product, and even though they provided the tools to allow such a product to be created, they did not provide the imagination.

if you put a non-copywrighted product up for sale in SL that was lifted from the internet... oh well. no one has any real claims against that sort of texture reuse.

But presumably it is just as illegal for Scarlett to give away these images?

Wrong. Applying a copyrighted image as is to a prim and selling it is every bit as illegal as taking the creative work of an independent photographer and using it as a background image for a newspaper advertisement.

Copyrighted images do not have their copyright removed just because they can be viewed on a webpage.

Adding the word "INTERNET" does not make a rights/IP/TM/Patent situation special.

exactly. i said non-copywrighted.

I think maybe 3Ring is saying that an image made by someone using Filter Forge is the intellectual property of the person who makes the image, not of the makers of Filter Forge.

You don't know the half of it. In sl many of these builders or self described "designers" believe everyone is out to steal from them. These self deluded indiviuals ego's have them believing they're actual rl designers. And everyone else is beneath them, hence all the profiles with comments of "Don't IM me." or "IM's will not be answered" and "I'm too busy working to respond."

What gets me is their balls in telling customers not to resell whatever they buy from them being they think what they sell is still there's after it's sold. Or my favorite the one about "My name is on my items so I don't want anyone to change it." Like if their name meant squat to anyone.

Read the terms again, keeping in mind that Filter Forge holds the copyright. Just because FF is letting people use the images doesn't mean that copyright magically transfers. Any images they put up for non-commercial personal use are still theirs, people just get to use the images in accordance with the still fairly strict terms of use.


Courtesy of http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/dcom/olia/copyright/copyrightrefresher.htm

Steaing from net amd reselling ? Wrong

It's not only textures though .. search SLX for Stewie Griffin ..

Yah !!

What the deuce !!

seems people steal lots of things and resell them here .. where/when will it end ?

When will the issue of copyright in SL be dealt with wholesale? Probably as I'm kicking back with DNF after having finally read that article on "Sex in D&D".

if i spoke out of turn previously, i apologize. maybe i should ask, for clarification: is FF a texture site for sharing textures, or a downloadable program you use to manipulate images and drawings into textures?

manipulate images, it can do neat stuff for a nub