Why do clubs not pay DJ's more?

Let me be quite clear on this for you, since you seem to be stuck thinking that money talks ... among other things.

Seacrest does not enter into this discussion, topic or equation in any way.

Yes - the job of the DJ is to entertain. A DJ's job is not that of the host however and let's face it .... some of us have kids we have to watch as well. I generally DJ in the evenings when my own baby daughter is asleep - or is nearly there. Now, sometimes she'll wake up and cause me to have to go AFK.

I don't know where the hell you get your information from but each and every venue I have worked at or visited HATES it when the DJ uses his/her voice over the stream very often.

Now, I personally try for a balance of music and voice, usually making a wisecrack here or there and letting people know what song is coming up next.

As for Winamp Vs. Sam? The entire concept that Sam is somehow better than having a Sam encoder, a DSP stacker and a Mic input plug in within Winamp so that a person can actually use something OTHER than an MP3 (my music is NOT all in MP3 format - see earlier posts) is about as stuffy and poor an attitude as there can be.

Yep, the software is rather limited as compared to Sam Broadcaster ... but sam is also limited.

And no hun - the DJ is there to play music and entertain. The Manager is there to find the gigs, gather the information and negotiate pay - if any. Now, when I am responding to a direct IM from someone looking to have me DJ, yes I will ask them the event, time, and if there is any specific genre of music they prefer be played. However that is NOT my job.

My job is: Play music, entertain patrons. That's it. I don't mind getting the information myself but come on ... I'm not able to be on 24 hours a day: hence why it falls to the manager to gather the information.

Umm if money doesn't talk why is the topic of this freakin post about money?

If the DJ isn't talking what's the point of having one? Have you visited shoutcast and seen how many station are out there to provide you music?

My point is a DJ should be hired because of their talent to entertain. If a DJ walks into an event blind and makes no money that is their own fault. DJ's that have been around for a while know what places they can make money at and dump the one's they don't.. I'm simply offering sound advice of working in the entertainment industry for years. Now if you feel that RL / SL jobs can't be compared then so be it.. But as long as you rely on someone else to do your research on your gigs you won't find the big paying ones. Nobody said you had to be on 24 hours.. I have a friend that only signs on for Gigs and makes good money at them. Based on what? his talent and the venue wanting his services cause they will get their return.

The topic is asking why DJs are not paid more by clubs. My most recent response before I got into this with you made mention of the fact that most of the time I am only looking to cover the stream payments.

I don't play music from an existing stream as that would not be ethical to me.

and yes: Real Life and Second Life need to remain separate for this sort of thing. Christ, one venue I used to work at held a Battle of the DJs, one which only amateurs were supposed to be allowed to enter. Guess what? We had two Real Life Professionals enter ... and they bombed badly.

My point concerning management - which finding and gathering information falls under - is that not everyone can actually sit there and go searching and getting the information they need, nor should they be required to do so. what is the point of having a manager if you end up doing half of their work?

Someone running a club that shouldn't be is a result of not producing. Anyone can open a club few can run one. We see far to many poorly managed clubs in SL.. I'm sure we have encountered these. But freelance DJ's Must do research. I will stand by that.. You don't need to be in 24 hours a day to research.

Most may not have to - I do. I Mentor, build in my spare time and other things aside form DJing ... I don't have the time.

Personally, I agree with Taylor.

Just to comment, I don't mind DJs who talk on their stream, infact I think it's more professional. A good friend of mine has a really cool voice and interjects between most of the songs. He is entertaining, provides funny little anecdotes, comments on the songs, and responds to the crowd.

Some DJs just fire up their playlist and let it ride. I very rarely tip them much unless I'm feeling charitable. I'd rather just play my winamp playlist on my own computer.

No one wants to spend money to go clubbing in SL...


And thats why DJ's don't get paid more.

I wouldn't say No One... There is still a select group that do. However, the number of clubs in SL Greatly out numbers them.

Yeah its a very tiny minority of overall club goers too.

And the overall group of club goers isn't enough to keep even a tenth of all SL clubs busy.


Guess we now know what the RL club scene would look like if no one needed a liquor license and permits to open up a club.

A LOT of empty clubs.

I'll fix...

No one wants to spend money to go clubbing [at clubs featuring dozens of noobs screaming "HOOOOOOOO!" and spamming ASCII text images of a wolf while shouting "HOWLZ!!!"] in SL.

And that's 99% of the clubs in SL.

That's so true, Can we find whoever it was that made the original HOOOO Gesture and pulls their toes or something?.... I wish there was a way to disable the ASCII crap for sure.. I'm in a conversation with someone and boom there goes the chat I was reading.. I can't stand that..

Alright....

Clubs don't pay DJs more for two reasons.

1. They don't have to. They're finding DJs at their current rates
2. They're trying to make money, and hiring a DJ is an expense.

But there are DJs out there that manage to more than cover their SL costs, stream costs, and still have plenty left over to cash out or go shopping with.

The get decent up front fees, and they work jobs that give them a good shot at decent tips. And...they have reputations as good DJs, so in addition to a club slot, they do private parties as well..which can pay better.

But they have reputations, and they do their homework.

If you are relying on a manager to set you up, and you don't like your gigs. That's between you and your manager, not you and your club owner. Either make sure he/she does the job, find a new manager, or do the work yourself.

If you're just doing it for fun...fine. Don't expect to make much, and be ready to cover your costs yourself.

If you want to cover your costs...then you need to run it like a business. Know what to expect from *every* gig, and just don't take a gig if it won't cover cost.

As soon as integrated Alcohol service is added to Second Life, clubs will make money

Till then .. there is no money-maker.

w00t Jerboa..... Well said.. I think I said that same thing but like in 10 different posts.. lol

I like DJ's who talk, however I dislike DJ's who talk over their stream (by that I mean, talk over the music as it is playing)

as for measuring a DJ's talent by the amount of tips or pay they get... maybe that used to be true in SL, but not anymore.

I used to DJ in SL, and was told I am good, by many folks, some of whom work in the music and sound industry in RL. Was told I had the perfect rocker chick voice, that meshed well with the selection of music I played (mainly 80's as that is what my collection is)

I have worked both in places that paid the DJ plus tips, and in places that were only tips.
And on a 2 hour gig I would walk away with 5000L in tips

I think the biggest things that have changed are;
Basic accounts no longer get a stipend
Too many clubs
And mostly folks just do not do the club scene like they used to

When basic account holders had the stipend paid to them too, they had that little extra to spend, and did not mind spending it (free money) and those tips even if they are only 10L do add up.

Oh well, I got out of DJ'ing as I no longer have my Sam, and just could not get winamp to work with my mic.
(the last few times I did DJ though, there was 0 income from it. I was not upset, just, surprised, and then saw some ads for low to no pay for DJ's and it got me to wondering what changed)


yes I love DJing, however like someone else mentioned, one does have to cover their cost, even if the cost is only 1K a month, it still needs to be covered

There are a lot of things that have contributed to the decline in tips and the like for DJs I'm afraid.

One of those being the gambling Ban. I used to get some very nice tips ... then the gambling ban hit and those droped down to almost nothing at all.

As a dj I especially hate it. Why? Because sometimes people don't IM me requests. They'll say it in local chat.

I don't want to scroll up several pages through ascii to figure out what someone has asked me to play.

And it's just irritating.

Sorry but one thing I want to point out is any ecent club wortha grin of salt should be providing a stream for its staff to use. If nfor nothign else than as a back up if their DJ's stream goes down. We actually have two streams that cn be used by our DJs (thanks to my partner grabbing a second stream very cheaply a few months ago). This should be a cost ofthe club and not of the DJ.

Really the only cost of a DJ should be the music (if they are obtaining it legally and hell lets face it 99% arent).

In reality the basic costs for a DJ to start up are minimal. Limewire to download songs and winamp, both of which are free. However many want to use SAM, which is a great tool if you can afford it, but you dont NEED it to DJ. My partner actually paid for SAM out of DJing tips (took her abotu 4 months).

By the way if youhve someoen you trust who has a full SAM licence (around $300 US) you can chat to them about picking you up a sublicence for SAM It is only $50. The one downfall is they recieve a new key for it every 6 months which you will need. Hence why you need to trust them This is a cheap way for those that want SAM.

I would do that, the sublicence thing

As for not needing to use sam, in my case it is the only software that works to enable me to use my mic
and let's face it, a DJ who doesn't talk, is like a radio stream... so why bother?

I have to disagree there. I woud say 80% of the DJs at my club dont voice. DJing is about so much mroe than playing msuic and annoucing the requests. Itis the interacting I get from the DJ that matters. Do they join in the convo? DO they start up chatting when it gets quiet? DO they tryto involve everyone? Do they greet everyone when they turn up (not just their friends)? Do they take the time to help out someone who might be new?

Now most people would say thats the job of the hostess. I personally wont hire anyDJ who doesnt do stuff like that, becuase I know they will leave in a week of making stuff all tips.

IT is that stuff that makes a good DJ great. Hell I DJ occassionally. The girls actually ASK for me to DJ becuase i dont take it seriously. I stuff up constantly, I put the rong tracks on or forget to turn off my mic. BUT i interact, I laugh and joke with them and I dont take it seriously. I realise like everything else in SL DJign is about fun not money and i dont care if i make 100L in two hours. I had fun

heh we will agree to disagree, for I prefer a DJ that talks

I do not always have the stream on, however if I turn it on and the DJ doesn't talk, then I just turn it back off and listen to my own music, after all, I can play what I want to listen to

see there, you use a mic, you mess up, they hear it, it makes you not so much a radio stream, and a person

(for the record, I never took my DJing seriously, either in SL or the net radio I DJ'd at before coming to SL) and I would mess up too, and they would understand, and some actually looked forward to what I would mess up on next
heck some would IM me when I was on the air trying to mess me up
(well, let me rephrase if I can, I took it seriously, but not in a "I am a professional DJ" kind of way)

(the one thing I have noticed impacted DJing is voice, I LOVE voice, but not when I am in a club, or when I am DJing)

I take issue with this. I don't voice, nor do I plan to. I have valid reasons for refusing. However, coming to one of my events is NOT like listening to a radio station. On a good night I'll play ALL requests (thank the gods for a 1000+ cd collection and a number of iTunes gift certificates). Saying that someone who doesn't voice is somehow inferior to the way YOU do things is rubbish.

If all people thought that way, they wouldn't bother to come to me to play their weddings and special events. I don't just sit there and put the player on random. I work hard at making sure the music is EXACTLY what people want to hear and I spend time engaging others in the area in conversation, trivia, and such.

Plus I take pride in playing things that people don't necessarily get to hear on any radio stream.

Voice can be a blessing and a curse for a DJ. I remember a couple who were absolutely fabulous in text, they worked the conversation, gave out just enough information and really entertained. Once they got on voice, some seemed to feel they had to talk more than anything else, and some just didn't have good speaking voices or"on air" comportment. It's sort of what happened when movies became talkies. A lot of silent stars just couldn't handle the transition. I don't expect SL DJ's to all be polished professionals, but there are some ho should have their mic taken away.

I never said they are inferior, I simply said for me it is not something I am interested in and might as well just listen to my own music

I like to hear the DJ, and a DJ who doesn't talk, doesn't interest me
that does not in any way imply they are inferior to me or anyone else, I just don't prefer it

So basically, you would go to one of my sets and never bother to request music because I don't talk on voice? Why bother to go to clubs at all? I know, I know. For the conversation.

I've been to places where they should never have given the DJ a mic. This one guy talked over ALL the music and wouldn't shut up. If I could have given him negative tips I would.

I actually told the club owner and the host that the reason I was leaving the club is because their DJ seemed to love the sound of his own voice more than actually doing his job.

I've also heard some people who have voices like Fran Drescher, or coughed and made disgusting noises when they thought their mics were off.

When I go to a club I like a DJ who plays my requests and decent music, and could care less if they voiced or not.