Why do clubs not pay DJ's more?

Some of the best sales and marketing resources a company could have are well compensated employees. Michael made a reference to professionalism a few posts back.. there are quite a few people who really lack any solid business sensibility.. they're just interested in profiting from as little investment as possible. Good luck.

EXACTLY

see I have a club, but.. it sits there, and does nothing, sometimes I get the urge to DJ, so I put out word that I am spinning some tunes anyone welcome... sometimes I even do it as an event, with a best in contest and everything.. with prizes...
do I do this often...no, because I can not afford to, do I have staff, no, again because I can not afford to, do I put out a tip jar, nope.. if folks feel they want to give me a tip as a token of appreciation they can do so directly...

I am doing the party, event, whatever at my own club because I want to
it is not to boost traffic, or to get ppl in or whatever reasons clubs do events...

my club has been in SL for almost 2 years, and I am planning to have a party on the anniversary of it...
in those 2 years it has been packed up 3 or 4 times.. and put back out.. due to space limitations, not cost... I never ran my club as a money maker, it has always been a labor of love

the club/bar is there for anyone who wants to stop in and listen to the radio stream, maybe dance a little (or cuddle on the numerous pose balls) or heck even if they want to have a party..
if another DJ needs a place to spin tunes, all they have to do is ask, no fees, just have their own streams ...

I built my place when I left that one I mentioned earlier (not by name, just by reference) and it was and still is, a special place for me...

sometimes I just go in, and sit back and remember all the fun that took place there the first few months it opened....
THAT is what I want the club to mean to others as well... fond memories.

(there are no dance poles, or dance tables, it has a bar, a couch, cuddle balls, dance machine, minimum light effects, small dance floor, dance balls... and... heh a tardis... we are HUGE DR Who fans and when hubby found he had a tardis in his inventory he just had to mark his spot with it... (he only comes into SL very rarely)...
the club is also a place where he and I would hang out a LOT when we were first dating on SL (now we are married in RL)

sooooo sorry I rambled on... been up all night, could not sleep, rather... bored heh

I've had it both ways. Tips with no pay and pay with tips. I'm limited because I absolutely refuse to use voice. I really hate voice for a lot of reasons, not least of which half the time I can't understand a thing people are saying when they use headsets.

That said, I usually work for around 250L/hour plus tips. I'd like more, but I also really enjoy what I'm doing. On a good night I can usually make well over 1000L for a two hour session.

This is second life, and while it's nice to be able to draw in a paycheck, ultimately we should be here for the fun of it. After all, lindens don't pay your bills in real life.

That's a shame. It gives the good DJs here a bad name.

I play for the love of the music and the love of my friends. I work the crowd, actually holding down conversations with just about everyone who walks through the door. I rarely ask for tips or use gestures, and the gestures I do use are usually just off the cuff one liners.

When I club hop, the places I'm likely to stay at have people who don't just auto greet, but people who talk to me, and a DJ who plays music that isn't heard in every rock club in SL already. If I have to hear Crazy Bitch one more time. . .

Seriously though, when I play I offer up fun trivia about the stuff I play and people seem to love it. It helps that they know I will play anything they want; all they have to do is ask. Yes, the standards get played because most clubs have a set genre and there isn't much variation on a theme for top 100 most of the time, plus there is ALWAYS someone who wants to hear Crazy Bitch.

You just have to love your audience and your job, and make the club experience a good one.

After reading your last two posts i can see the frustration ..I'm not sure what club you had worked for but i can sure feel your reasons to temp..

The thing that always really shocked me was that employee's that are so loyal that they give most of their time to one place in sl that gets looked over as they are just another person working there.. That always frustrated me to no end..

I never believed in DJ's having to work for just one club..To me it never made sense because they do two hour sets and then may not have a set until tomorrow..
I mean that is their income, they can't work just two hours a day and be exclusive to a club..just like any employee there they should be able to reach for the sky in a sense and do what they love as much as they want.

Any place i managed i always felt a strong need to be close to everyone, security,dancers, dj's ,owners and managers.. I am a firm believer that a happy staff makes a great place..Unhappy and drama takes over... It doesn't take much to spark drama..60 % of my job was buffering it as soon as it started before it spread.

I wanted everyone to come to me before they went anywhere else..Showing you care and really meaning it are there to fight for them in a fair way builds a trust.. They will come to you first before anyone..It wasn't always rosy and didn't get along with everyone all the time but nothing is 100%..You have to be fair to both sides and being in the middle of both sides gets rocky at times until you can show the reasons for why things had to be done the way they were..

I feel if you don't have a strong fair management in a club that will step up for you or an owner that will respond back in a fair manor you start to feel you are alone in a sense.. Your words feel like they fall on deaf ears and then it is only a matter of time before employees and owners part ways..

Loyalty has to work both ways..I say this at every interview i have ever had..
I will be loyal to this place as it gets but i expect the same in return..Once you become disloyal to me is the day we part ways..

I'm a firm believer in a personal bond with a business to an extent..There has to be a love between employees and the company..It's common knowledge that the company has to come first but the company has to show it knows that it cannot do it on it's own ..Greed kills and you lose great people that would have done anything they could to help the place make it..

In my eyes looking at what you have said in your last two posts they took someone that was loyal for granted ..You ended up sticking it out for other reasons than the company because you were not happy there..They were on borrowed time as soon as they became disloyal to you..
I can relate to that very much..Hard work should not be over looked and it should be rewarded..If the money is not there or people see it going elsewhere without an explanation or a reason why,they start to feel they are a number and all that hard work turns into feeling used..

They can't tighten the rope and restrict people ..they need to loosen the knot in a caring way and open doors to more options or you lose them for good..
You can make money anywhere but loyalty to me is priceless and not a one way street like some owners think..

I do hope you find a great place and they know who they have and respect that..

I own a club in sl been open since 2005 , first of all i would like to say , many people have forgottten what club scene and djing is about in SL back in 2005 it was all about fun thats it plain in simple, recenetly 2007-2008 it changed , people forgot about fun and all they are here for is to make money , Clubs were profitable in the past but, have completely gone downhill since gambling ban in SL.

Also alot of these djs at least the ones that have started out in my club , make alot more then our club itself in tips, so why should club owners be forced to pay them as well, alot of them walk out every night with 3k-5k a night djing a 2 or 3 hour set , and they expect more? when some dancers and escorts are only making a few lindens. also my next example is these djs start out pretty good then there EGO comes into play they make a few thousand lindens in tips then think they are GODS they get cocky and think they club cannot surive without them, i have great djs turning out to be real asshats after a bit they come on when they want to , stay for 30 mins then dissappear , sometimes they get obnixious disrespecting customers and employees of the club and they want to be paid for that? they are clearly mistaken , my club is currently the oldest and longest running club in Secondlife , going on 4 years this june.. Anyways that is my two cents about it

The saddest part is that I got more in tips Bar tending in a Strip Club than I did DJing. I never asked for tips either ... The Bar tending was essentially another facet of a Role Play character I'd developed. I can remember one night, December of the year I joined (2006): As an Out of Character comment, I responded to a conversation that had been going on concerning what some of the people there were going to buy later in terms of full Avatars. I commented that I was saving up to get 3.2k (lindens) Dragon Avatar.

The next thing I know, one of the people there that had ALWAYS been good and kind tipped me the FULL price of said Avatar. didn't ask how much I had saved up, nothing. when I reacted in surprise, he told me to think of it as his Christmas present to me.

Sadly, that place has since moved and redecorated in a way that puts the bar out of the area where most of the patrons hang out.

Just to chime in with what has already been said....

At my club DJs work for tips only. Why? I pay tier. I pay contest money. I provide the stream, which I also pay for. I tip hosts and DJs every time I'm there when there is an event. We have events about 5 days a week.

I have often seen DJs getting well over 2000L for a 2-hour event while the house/club is tipped nothing. That is a high amount, but it's not rare either. I have had DJs brag about how much they're making and not tip 1L back to the club. So basically I am providing the means for *others* to make money in SL. Hence I don't pay "wages". Fortunately I view running the club as a hobby and I don't ever expect to break even with the club alone.

What I tell people who are interested in hosting or DJing is that our focus is on having a good time and hanging out with friends, not making money, and if they want a job just to make money they should look elsewhere. Tipping is very variable; sometimes it's great, other times, the only money in the tip jars are the lindens I put there.

I would seriously like to know which DJs you are talking about because from what I've been seeing the only way for a DJ to get that much per event is if they demand the 2k as payment for said shift (for freelancers mind you). Usually it's the escorts and strippers that get that much or more a night.

I find it odd that many clubs (especially strip clubs) demand 10-20% of their dancers' tips however they never require that from their dj's. One problem with trying that though is that unless it became the norm you'd have little luck getting any dj's if you asked them for a 10-20% cut since they'd go somewhere else where they could keep all their tips.

well dj's are working their butts off thats for sure when it is busy..doing requests or requests coming in all the time ..having songs downloading that they don't have..then trying to make the song change up smooth.plus working with hosts and doing announcements or taking votes for events if they have their own stream it's like 4000 a month for 100 listener server..then you are only working two hour shifts per club a day unless you are one of the few there..your system is taxed to the limit with programs running plus you have to work the crowd..
it can be a very busy time and a lot of multi tasking to do..
i've danced and dj'd and managed and owned and just about any job there was to do in clubs..
besides managing or owning..it's right up there at the top in work if you are good at it with a good following or on busy nights in a crowd of 60 or more people..

Dancing i've always made more money in that than any other job in clubs..dancers have it pretty good if they are good at their jobs..
if you are hitting everyone up for tips you are gonna do bad..
if you are there having fun and the customers know it's all about fun..you will do better..i always lived by ..let them decide to want to tip you because they are having a great time not make them feel obligated to because it's the thing to do..
a dancer should never mention the words tip or money to a customer..words like kindness and generosity go much farther..

Dj's do well in a lot of clubs if they are working the crowd and doing pretty much the same thing..being a dj and leaving the mention of money out of the mic..
people pick up on these things and from a club and do judge the people that work there..

Dancers getting 20% which is avg now and came down from the 30% avg when i started is very fair..because dancers at one time were a big part of where clubs made the money..
and most train the ones coming in and some even have the mentors take dancers out to get suited for the club with shapes and skins and clothes and things..most are not asked to be exclusive unless you make manager or lead..

a dj may get a stream but chances are they are still paying around 4k for their own unless they have landed a good steady club or clubs..
there is a lot of work djing..a dancer may have im's going and working the chat..

a dj is working the im's in requests and others also the chat and the mic and download programs and switching up tracks and more..

as a dancer if i made 2000 a night it was a terrible night for me...heck if i only made 15k i was wondering what i was doing wrong lol
it takes more work for a dj to earn than it does a dancer..

re: dancing bots..
I would decline playing anywhere like that.. I DJ to entertain and interact with people.. What fun are bots?

re: lindens..
When I had a jazz club, there were live performers that would argue rates, ie.. would not play for 3K but would for 3500.. what's the point of a few pennies? Same with the OP asking for 500L rather than 150L.. but saying that 500L is $3-4US? Last I checked, 500L meant 2 bucks. And here again, I play because I love the music and I enjoy the people. I would not argue playing a 2 hour event for $2 rather than $6.. what's the point of a few dollars? When I play RL events, I make $100US per hour, sometimes more. I wouldn't ever consider SL as being a way to earn a living.. To me at least, it's more of a testing ground for certain tracks, mixes, and MC-ing.

re: dj tips..
I only played one venue that took a cut of my tips, and it was high. I found it strange. I even offered to play for them at half price since they were new. I always tip back the venue I perform at. It shouldn't have to be asked for, I give willingly bc I know they need to make tier to stay in business.

Hi,

I'm planning to hire a DJ for my Monthly Themed Blood Balls which start on Aug 22 and I'm looking for advice from the pro's here in forums on the best way to do this and ensure that I get a quality DJ...what types of things should I look for and is it worth the cost to post a Help Wanted Classified? What should I put in the Classified to attract experienced and professional DJs versus "woo I got winamp yesterday! let's play some music" types? What is considered a "fair" hourly wage for such a DJ (keeping 100% of tips naturally)?

My requirements:

1. Must have own stream which is fast, reliable and supports at least 50 listeners. I have no plans to open a club and am not willing to pay for a dedicated stream for once a month parties. My Raster Radio has everything I need the rest of the time.

2. Ready and willing to spin a wide variety of genres but really needs to be familiar with Classic Rock/Metal (70's to 90's), Alternative and Gothic (industrial and Darkwave) with less of the "screamo" and more of the classic "soft" goth. 3 hrs of screamo makes me want to pound my head into the desk...not pretty

3. Take requests and dedications and "shmoooze" the guests. I don't need a DJ to wind them up so they spend $L on a staff, sploder or vendors. I need a DJ to add to the Gothic ambiance of my Jardin and fit the more formal concept of a masked Ball with (hopefully) lots of fancy dressed couples wanting romantic ballads between ACDC and Rammstein.

4. RELIABLE and DEPENDABLE!!! I really do not want to have to scrounge for a new DJ every month and would be happy to pay premuim fees to ensure that the same DJ plays each month. It's better for my sanity and makes for a much better evening for everyone.

Please do visit the Jardin Des Ombres if you'd like to see what the job environment will be like and offer any advice on tools or changes that a quality DJ might require.

http://slurl.com/secondlife/Thylacine/189/121/97

This is what the Employment Ops board is for.

No that was my request for advice on HOW to word a classified in a way that clearly relays MY requirements but has the right keywords or points that will attract the quality talent. I assumed it was of benenfit to lay out what I'm looking for so that the answers help me craft the right classified ad or if they advise some other method...

Perhaps you should have read the first paragraph before judging...



Morganna

not always..I interact a lot, entertain people for two full hours and still sometimes no tips...most people just don't want to spend ANy money, just win contests.

yes you are right... mostly people are not there to spend any money, they are there to win it
you will notice when folks win (or not) they TP away almost as soon as the event ends, unless there happens to be another one right after

been like that since I have been in SL

In this age of LimeWire and torrents and P2P, no one with an internet connection and flexible approach to intellectual property rights need ever rely on a DJ for their music ever again.

Personally I mute DJs whenever I go to a club anyway. Why listen to someone elses choice of music when I can listen to any song I want on my own pc?

I suspect a lot of people secretly feel the same way I do. I don't tip buskers on the street for the same reason - because they are not providing any service that my iPod doesn't do better for free. I may, however, consider paying a busker to go away and annoy someone else.

I'm always surprised to see this sentiment expressed. To me, part of the shared experience of SL is knowing you're listening to the same music (and seeing the same environment) as the people around you. That's not to say I've never turned off the music and listened to something else, but it's the exception, not the rule. It detracts from the immersive nature of SL to do so.

I must admit to keeping the in parcel stream off most of the time as well, unless I am there specifically to hear a certain DJ or performer.

I'll tip in clubs depending on much money Ive got at the time. Sometimes as little as 20L sometimes as much 500L. If I've got it then I'll give it. If not then o well and I'll catch you next time. Sometimes I'll spread it round but usually I give what I've got to the DJ. And the host if its a stream. And now and again the bouncer gets a bit if they have had a busy night =)

Most clubs are pretty kool and I just go with the flow usually and jump around mosh mosh =) so thats good.

The minimum I ever gave to any DJ was 1L. And that was because he was a friend with a huge defmtlhed rep and I snapped him spinning Bon Jovi in another club. loooool !!! Not that theres anything wrong with BJ but well you know. Shame !!! =)

If there is one thing that annoys me intensely its automated granulated thankies doled out in public chat by club workers.

thx for ur sweet tip
thx for ur kickass tip
thx for ur awesome tip
thx mwuaah mwauaah mwauaah

What do these people think they're doing ???

The number of newcomers I've seen getting the automated sweet tip treatment really infuriates me. The amount of the tip may be every linden that the newcomer has and while it may not be a whole lot to the ungracious one receiving it, the amount given means everything to the newcomer giving it.

Maybe some of the people who do granulated thankies don't even realise how badly this can come across not only to the newcomer on the receiving end but also to the other more seasoned patrons who observe this. And Yes some people do like to be acknowledged publicly but its really a hard do, when this kind of thing is used to manipulate the guests, or worse to shame them intentionally or not.

I mean how hard is it to type "thx kat =)" and leave it at that. Kat knows what you're referring to and will smile or wink back. And its that back response that the classy club workers treasure the most. As it simply means I've had a great time thanks to you, and I'll be coming back here again.

I pay DJ's L$1,500 + tips for a 3 hour event.

Waves at Jade.

Pretty generous pay. I'm guessing you don't have 2x daily events, 7 days a week

Same here. I often have a station I like playing on winamp. Nine out of ten times I am playing my on music when at a club. Unless I went there specifically for the music.