VAT-Another one bites the dust.

The UK office is a separate legal entity AFAIK. It does not provide billable services except to LL in the USA. It does not have a bearing on the VAT charged to SL users.

If the UK office were to be the billing point for Europe, all VAT would be at the UK rate of 17.5%. VAT-registered business who supply their VAT# to LL would get the exempt/0 rate as now. UK VAT-registered businesses would have to be billed for and pay the VAT, but would be able to reclaim it in their normal VAT returns.

What LL are doing is a special EU provedute for non-EU business selling into the EU.
As described in the extract supplied by Collete abve:
"...we've subscribed to what's called the "special scheme" under VAT rules. Under the special scheme we don't have a EU company, we've just registered with one country to pay VAT and so the special scheme makes it easy because then we just collect and remit to the one country who then redistributes it to all the other EU countries and with the special scheme we charge at the rate of the country of residence of the end-user."

The audit trails are as for any business. The auditing firm used by LL would be expected to detect any errors or omissions. Spot checks by relevant authorities wouls second-guess the auditors.

Cheers Sling. Anyone know the name under which the company is registered? Do they actually have a physical presence in the UK? I know there was word of Brighton being the location. Has it come to fruition?

Sorry for all the questions. I'm interested, and so is my OH (who is arguing the point about it all). From what I gathering from reading, it's been implemented in an unprofessional slap-handed way.

If I have to pay VAT, I have to pay it. Thankfully I am not in the position of some people like the OP else I probably would be peed off too. However it seems the majority of the 'get over it already' brigade do not have to pay VAT.

The "get over it already" crowd sympathizes to the extent that we agree that LL handled it badly. But crying over VAT itself - get over it.

What money? They've only recently hit the threshold at which they need to collect VAT, this doesn't go back years at all.

Do you pay VAT or sales tax on your SL account Cristalle?

No, because my government doesn't foist sales tax on this service. And if it did, I wouldn't complain. I'd just pay Caesar his due.

Look, the problem is that VAT does not contemplate micro-economies where Europeans would be at a disadvantage. It is designed to handle real world economies, to protect European businesses. It protects a European version of SL, should one ever arise, but not the businesses inside SL as it stands now.

Lobby your government to get it changed. If you're in the UK, sign Walker's petition.

Thank you. No more questions.

You're around 1500 posts late to the party.

That's a large reason why people don't care and want you to get over it.

Exactly, although there is something in the reams of text that suggests this should apply when
the VAT position would otherwise put European business at a disadvantage.

Read my posts, I have no problem with the VAT. Yes maybe I am too late, but I'm new. I always thought new members were welcome to join in discussions and ask questions.

i love how all the americans are all 'suck it up' but really, if it happened to them they would be whining their fat asses off.

What would it take for them to provide such receipts?

Is it feasible under the current SL system or is it going to take work?


If theres a better way for LL to collect the VAT - then I can see working towards that. But also we have to make sure were not expecting LL to do something they cant yet.


Solutions where LL adjusts the system to be more inline with EU regulations seem reasonable to me, as long as there is some patience involved.

Solutions where LL makes non-EU residents help pay the EU resident's taxes do not.

Well thats kind of the thing. Many Americans wouldn't approve of taxes on this sort of thing. Thats why we have a law preventing it, and why its been extended.

There are several requirements to meet, like either a paper receipt stating things like tax registration number, postal adress for both LL and the customer, the time frame the payment is for, a unique receipt number and stuff like that - or an electronically signed, unchangeable pdf version of all that. I'm kinda sure it would be different for different EU countries.

So would EU members be willing to pay a surcharge for this added requirement on LL?

Why should there be a surcharge?? Any other place that supplies a VAT receipt for goods or services supplied does it free of charge. Hell you can even get one in PC world if you ask.

It isn't going to cost LL extra in time and resources to provide all of these varied receipts? How do you know you already aren't paying for added overhead when you buy from those other places?

Well if you look at it that way, maybe the price Europe are paying includes all of the above. If they (LL) charge VAT they are obliged to provide a receipt else how can anyone account for the fact they have paid it.

I could buy half a dozen routers on the fly and try to claim VAT on their purchase, but I wouldn't be able to without a receipt. I must have a receipt to claim any VAT back.

Show me a government that listens to its people and I'll let you stroke my pet flying pig Maurice.

I want a pet flying pig >.>

How do you know you're paying the VAT at all? I presume because LL states the VAT separately when it bills you/ charges your CC/ however else it gets paid from you. In the US, tax collectors accept such statements of tax paid unless they have reason to suspect fraud. If that isn't a valid receipt for VAT purposes, what else does it take?

In the UK, to claim tax back you need the VAT number of the merchant, the transaction amount and tax paid, the time and date of the transaction, and some way to identify who the merchant is (as far as I'm aware). This is what you find on most receipts, certainly all the ones I've seen. The receipt is just a convenient way for you to record that you've made the transaction and for them to be sure that they've provided you with the information you might need - it can be by email or whatever.

I can assure you that this fat ass American wouldn't be whining. I would much rather pay higher taxes and receive universal health care as well as other benefits my European friends receive. Most in my country don't agree with that so I "suck it up".

If the US government did change it's policy so that I was charged tax for using SL and I didn't like it, I still would not get all pissy with LL over it. It's my government I'd be complaining about.

Is it really that difficult to understand?

All this BS about the procedural aspect of how VAT is charged and whether receipts are suppose to be provided, and blah, blah, blah really are about being pissed off that you have to pay the tax. So SUCK IT UP and complain to your government.

So, if for example, your healt insurance company would not pay for a surgery because the hospital doesn't provide a valid receipt you surely would SUCK IT UP and complain to your government... Lord, throw down brain. Lots of it!

I am hardly the world's least complaining person, but it does strike me that complaining to LL about a tax that they are legally obliged to pay on some transactions but not others would be a bit of a cheek. It isn't as if they are hiking prices depending on where things are sold beyond that (unlike *cough*Apple*cough).

I have far more sympathy for people who live in countries where the average pay is considerably less. How fair is it that someone in, I don't know, Slovakia has to pay a far huger chunk of their wages than I do? If anyone is to get compensation, perhaps we should start there.

Of course that road all leads to a lengthy political and economic debate which would doubtless be inconclusive and full of insults and end in a lock.