Race in SL

I shoulda used the words "heated argument" not flamewar. I am backing away from this thread veeery slooooowly, with only one comment.

My best friend on my (real life) street where I live is black, and he is maybe a decade older than I am. We share experiences around Southern California all the time; I've been at the same places as him and let me just say our experiences can be *utterly* different. Overt racism may be rare, but a colorblind society we are absolutely not, by any stretch of the imagination.

It sounds comical but I really was expecting a thread about a race across the mainland or something.

~ Des out.

Actually, this is a major STRENGTH of SL (and of a forum like this). We CAN understand where a person is coming from, based on what they say and do, and not colored by how they look or sound.

I think you are an intelligent, widely-read, thoughtful (and thought-provoking!) person who is unconventional in many ways. I also think that you're often guilty of sloppy thinking and have a tendency to read things into statements that don't exist anywhere except in your own imagination.

And this is where the charge of "victimhood" comes in. You seem determined to place yourself in that role, when no one here has victimized you.

You want to know me? Watch this video. Warning some explict language.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMAwb5hPyqM&feature=player_embedded#t=266

It pops into my mind because I was living in the middle of San Francisco right as it got a wave of Eastern Europeans coming in. Its a majority Asian city, but the Euros never seemed to have any of the immigration problems that have historically plagued the Hispanic and Asian communities there. No roundups, backlashes, special islands, police issues, and so on. Yes, times have changed - but the Hispanics and Asians still can get a 'looking at' even if they speak 'native Californian' whereas you can find many Caucasians now in ESL classes, or not bothering.

I'm 100% full blood chiricahua apache..so is my avatar..
it always has been..never one time in SL that i can remember has anyone offended me or my heritage because of being Apache..if anything they seem more interested in talking about it..although there have been some goofy people that hit on me and say things like ..wow i have never been with an apache before..i just kind of laugh that off because you have to be a bit touchy to let something like that bug you..
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Jig i have to ask something..it's not meant to be offensive but it has me curious..
in one of your threads you were talking about nazi's..not sure what the topic was...but you found something someone had said as offensive and then said you were Jewish..Now you are saying you are another race that is ebony?
Or are you Ebony and jewish?

Sorry for sounding curious but it's a little confusing ..
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as far as in RL with rooms going silent when i walk in them..nope never had that..i live in the deep south and about 12 miles from where the KKK was born..not sure what kind of racism you all are dealing with ..it sounds more like out of a stereotypical movie or sitcom to me..

people don't flaunt it as much in public ..although i've had some serious run in's with klan and lil skin heads where my father has straightend out a few..he was put in the hospital one time by them..
but as far as shopping or going into restaurants and people turning quiet or any of that..It's not as in your face as it was in the 90's..

It's there but it's not a constant..


As far as some thinking Chris is being a racists..not that i have ever seen..If people think he is a racist they need to go back and get the understanding of what being a racist is..

if you jump everytime your race in mentioned or the color of someones skin..you need to lighten up or the problem will never go away..

well lunch hour is over ..everyone have a good day

Reading this thread, and basing strictly off responses contained in here, I see absolutely nothing wrong with anything Chris has stated. I see absolutely no racism in his posts. The problem I see is a certain other person flaming him because she happens to disagree with what he is saying.

I have friends who are black, Asian, Indian, and Hispanic. I know that racism exists, but part of the reason it exists is because people from every nationality throw the term "racism" or "racist" out at the first sign of disagreement. This, of course, leads to escalation as is quite apparent in this thread.

Does racism exist? Absolutely! Is it a problem? No doubt! But, aside from the violence committed from racism, the biggest problem facing us is the ignorance and exaggerated offenses that make small problems even bigger.

As for the OP, I personally didn't see any whining in it, just statement of fact and amusement. I've had discussions with friends along the same topics in RL before.

May I ask, where did you get the skin? I have been looking for one that doesn't have the make up like some circus animal.

Yeah, Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh to name a few.

hehe...she looks more japanese yes, but also maybe chinese from some unknown village of sichuan in mainland china. : > (ok i guess i am talking alien language to myself here )

I thought Jusenkyo was in Qinghai Province.

I think an irony here is that Chris and Jig, both people whom I like, are (in my humble opinion) guilty of exactly the same fault here.

Chris, I think, flew off the handle over a very mild and (frankly) interesting post that did not deserve to be labeled as "wallowing." It seemed almost like a knee-jerk reaction to the appearance of any mention of racism in the post.

Jig, I think, overreacted to Chris's reaction, which did not, I believe, evidence any signs of a racist attitude at all. It seemed almost like a knee-jerk reaction to the appearance of a DENIAL that racism might be a factor in the OP.

Chris, I've already explained why I don't think the OP was exploiting or whining about race.

Jig, I think Chris was wrong, but questioning an accusation of racism is surely entirely legitimate? What is called for is a dispassionate discussion and analysis of the facts of the case. The mere fact of denying that racism is in play in THIS instance does not itself qualify as racism. And I've seen nothing from Chris -- EVER -- that suggests that he is racist.

Now, I want you BOTH to take a deep breath, rethink this, and try your best to be more thoughtful and reasonable.

Like me.

For the person who enquired about the skins, here's the link:

https://uncensored.xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&MerchantID=189715[url]The designer is Psycho Kondor. The best black skins in SL in my opinion.

As one of the posters said, the initial comment was about a SL experience which I found amusing and interpreted a certain way based on the theme of the Sim. This particular sim is problematic, because on arriving you receive a notecard informing you of certain things that are not allowed in the sim when those things were an integral part of the history of the place and time it seeks to represent. However, sim owners can have any rules they like. Although in this case it removes an essential part of the history of the place, which diminshes the realism it strives for. In any case, people come to SL to escape, not to be reminded of the horrors of history.

"After being a member of the "SL" community since 2006, I came to the conclusion that SL is a white world made in the image of its creators and reflecting their cultural perspectives (and sub-conscious prejudices). Nothing wrong with that. It's only natural."

I state it again. Nothing wrong with that. I live in a country that is non-white. If SL was developed here, it would reflect a non-white point of view, and maybe whites would feel that they don't belong.

I find most skins and sims in SL to be somewhat too santized. This is changing thankfully, as more people are building realistic broken down places and aged acne prone skins.

"So when I entered a diner where everyone was previously chatting and enjoying themselves, all fell silent. I was there for about five minutes looking around before leaving, and not a word was spoken. Reminds me of RL. lol"

I don't consider this racist at all. If a white person were to visit some of the places I hang out in RL, they would experience the same reaction. Racism is about differential treament by societal institutions. People will always gravitate towards others from similar ethnic and class backgrounds. This has its basis in evolution.

This experience was just an interesting one in the context of the historical period the sim tries to recreate. I don't think the sim owners thought through their concept enough, because different racial groups spoil the historical flavour they are trying to recreate, as does the absence of the very important part of its history.

Is that based on clothing and/or setting, or upon her physical features?

I remember what an eye-opener it was for me when I heard that people in China apparently thought that Disney's Mulan looked more "Korean" than "Chinese." A typical white Westerner, I'm afraid . . . but I try.

I dont mind answering. My matrilineal line is Jamaican-English (tracing Sephardic bloodlines to Yemeni/Moroccan). My patrilineal(?) grandparents were Italian/English/Dutch and were Hassidic and Reform Jewish. Also in my genetics is a North American First Nation and I ended up being raised by my grandmother for the first four years as my Mum was really making a career and I was a hard baby to love - tempestuous and very scratchy. I grew up in music and arts scene in punk and progressive art.
In me, the Jamaican genes are evident and my "colour" is evidence. But I was blond-haired when I was a kid. I practise my faith privately but am also drawn to High Anglican evensong. My route for a sense of balance is using a sweatlodge or simply aloneness.
That dark Ebony skin was gone long before I was born. The ages of the slave trade took taht away. But I embrace my anglo-saxon genes also. I like being a river with many streams and tributaries.
My only problem are the genetic illnesses that go along with such a mix - so I am now aware that glaucoma may be in my future from my African genes. Since I will not bear children, my mix dies out with me.
I'll just add that being Jewish ofcourse is not delineating a race or citizenship. I could be Inuit and Jewish if the bloodline were such although conversion is frowned upon. I was interested in teh poster stating that peopel who arent ebony but are black - a rainbow of shades - can find suitable skins.

I am obviously in the minority here. No doubt the man is a saint. As possibly I am the "certain other person", I think I "got" as good as I gave. I doubt if the man being referred is shedding any more tears than I am.

I will add that I think he has good fortune in his sl friends and acquaintances. You were all very loyal to him. I am certain your faith in me would be far less rigorous.

Okay, I skipped to the end here just because after the first dozen or so "he's a racist", "they're a racist", "we all scream for ice cream" it got a bit repetitive. I just wanted to take issue with the original statement that SL is 'getting better', sorry if I'm repeating someone.

Quite frankly, from first days I joined I have never had a problem finding a skin to match my ethnicity in SL. I'm not white or black, but even so it only took me about a week being a complete noob in world in 2006 to find nice darker than tan skins from Nominee and Naughty Design, shoot ND was the first skin store I ever went to, I still wear that skin. I also found nice dark complected skins at Sin. Really I can only think of one or two 'big' skin designers who don't do non-white skins. Looking at our born on dates I see I'm about a month older than the OP, so unless he's an alt and his original avatar dates from 2004 or so, then my thoughts is that maybe instead of racial stuff getting better in SL, perhaps he finally got better at searching for what he wanted?

Quite frankly I have never encountered racism in SL. I may have had people make unfortunate and usually very hysterical comments a time or two, but that was just out of cluelessness, not because they thought my cartoon characters pigment makes me somehow less of a geek.

I get Arabs and Irish and everyone living in between trying to tell me they're different races and I just look at them and think 'you're kidding, right?'

But I can usually spot the differences between different Asian nationalities on a glance.

Here's the one I "sell" (1L):

https://uncensored.xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&file=item&ItemID=1735968

No makeup. She's not done to look like somebody's blaxploitation alt, but just normal 'mocha' colored skin.

I got it from Redgrave - NAOMI skin. It my first skin and only skin i will ever get from there as the rest just don't suit my shape and the other ethnic skins change your face dramatically to the point of looking cloned when you see others in the skin.


Here is a pic of the skin in use on a shape from Xstreet:

I have never encountered racism in sl either. Will and I are a biracial couple and we find the differences to be mostly comical.

Example: while discussing our first rl meeting he told me, Sable I can't stand hair left in the bathtub. IRL, when he said that to me, I'm like hair! What on earth is he talking about. So, I asked why would there be hair in the bathtub in the first place. He said well when you shave your legs, you will leave hair. I said, why on earth would I be shaving my legs?

Then it dawned on me that some races HAVE to shave their legs and that what he was accustomed too. I told him well in my race, we aren't hairy like that. I don't and most women in my ethnic group doesn't shave their legs either.

Yes we are all different as we are created that way and for a reason.

LUCKY YOU.

But winter is coming and in the winter, i grow a fur coat all over! WOOT!

I'd say that it's really just a matter of what you are used to, but . . .

I wish I were that good at spotting ethnic diversity, Asian or otherwise. God knows, it's not from lack of exposure: there are almost 300,000 people of Chinese origin living in my city, and even more South Asians.

I think I'm just not very observant. Period.

And here is mine



https://uncensored.xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&file=item&ItemID=1764444

/me is so jealous.

See I love that, it closely resembles my rl color.