Landlord Fraud?

I tossed up a region and had 10 people magically appear and I had no problems. The only issues I've had are when people tried to resell parcels as initially I sold my parcels, I'm no longer comfortable with that model and purchased the land back myself. People happily paid me, a newbie landlord, L$35,000 for a 4096.

Desmond I thought you were rather clear in your initial post on this subject. I was a little surprised to see some jump up in arms about what you said. Your catagory c and d are quite clear to me...........and it does make me wonder about the people who say they are cat c being so indignant about you putting them in cat d. It's simply the people who want too much for nothing that make the problem for people like the OP..........not the people who do if for fun. I thought you were very clear.

Oh well...........thin skins get easily scrapped I guess.

When their business models are being undermined it's not surprising to find people object to the statements being made.

Trouble is because avatars are disposable the guy will just start another account with a hotmail adress if he is banned because there is no verification of accounts in SL.
When there was a shortage of land people could just kick all the tennants like this by selling to an alt then have a new batch of tennants "buy" land on the same island.
But with the shortage of tennants at the moment this would be stupid.
Check out your Landlord, if they are only 30 days old, smell the rat, if they have been around a while thatn they have a SL reputation to consider and would deal with this sort of thing professionally if they chose to sell up.

If you are not in that catagory then your business in NOT being undermined. But, like I said, makes me wonder where you really stand.

I don't rent. I "own" mainland land just so I don't have to deal with it. Landlords/barons earn their reputations. Someone saying that people in it for the money without the work to goes with it are the root problem is a fact...........he's not talking about you. Or is he?

He didn't say people in it for the money without the work, he said people in it for the money when they have small holdings, big difference.

He may well be talking about me, my tenants would disagree with both you and him vehemently.

but why should anyone place a catergory on anyone else anyway? Its one persons view being put forth like some sort of law or rule...and its not the case.

for the record i dont have a thin skin but i do find having the way i run my business undermined or called into question as flakey or disreptuble...im very happy doing what i do and i do it very well

but why should anyone place a catergory on anyone else anyway? Its one persons view being put forth like some sort of law or rule...and its not the case.

for the record i dont have a thin skin but i do find having the way i run my business undermined or called into question as flakey or disreptuble...im very happy doing what i do and i do it very well Us smaller enterprises also work hard for OUR reputations because we dont have HUGE amounts of this and that makes us no less viable.

I still don't see where Desmond was talking about you or Cirian........but you two take exception. Okay. Fine with me...........I won't rent from you anyway (and not even Desmond for that matter). I'm one who wants as much control of my "assets" as I can get.............and in another's hand (no matter how reputable) I've lost some of that control. It's bad enough that my land "assets" are in the hands of LL........I will not put someone else in the mix too.

Carry on.........I'm done.

Desmond,

I think I agree with that. The entire problem is that when I say "business model," I mean entirely within the confines of "the game," and when you say "for money," you mean as a RL career.

I think people are getting these terms all mixed up and taking them very differently.

I think we could probably all agree that someone with a couple of regions of all rental property expecting to live off of that is 100% doomed to failure, as my enterprise would be. And it sounds like you are saying that people like me, and Faithless, and Cristalle, are perfectly sustainable as "hobbyists," since, by your definition, we are not doing it "for the money."

As long as we're clear with the terms, I don't think there's much disagreement. I would agree that it's good advice not to invest a lot of Lindens in a person who claims to have a couple of regions and be doing it for a RL living. But it sounds like you would agree that it's not necessarily automatically a bad idea to rent from someone just because they are a small-timer period.

I'm satisfied with that if you are.
--Avion

My land has been no money down rental from day one. For the record, i was doing well enough, but I have to agree with Desmond, you have to be passionate about it as a hobby to do it small scale. I have a business in world too, and it basically came down to a choice, do the Estate full time, and take it to the next level, or do my store full time. I love creating too much, I tried and failed to give that up. So I did the only other thing I could do in the situation. And I'm feeling pretty good about it.

And SL loses another of my favorite landlords with a stellar reputation...

At least we can still enjoy your creations.

And enjoyable they are...

If you Paid the Tier your credit card, contest the charge with the bank and have them chargebackth merachant,

If you didnt use a credit card to pay your cash tier, then yes there is little you can do

Always use a credit card to pay private island tier if you ever want recourse.....

Thanks

If ever LL decided to reduce the purchase price to say 500 USD for a full sim and 125 USD for an Open Space sim....or even worst still, allow anyone to buy Open Space sims without having to own a Full one....all the business models described in this thread will be doomed.

No one can tell what LL next move is. Although Estates like Caledon might be in great shape right now, it might not apply if LL allow "Joe Public" to own his personal kingdom on the cheap. If it becomes that cheap... why rent? Simply buy and when you get bored .....abandon it.

Rene, you are exactly correct. That's part of being in business.

* * * * *

Peggy gets what I'm saying.

This being Resident Answers, I'm not going to get into anything acrimonious with anyone, nor was I trying to.

If someone wants to invite me over to a private forum or other appropriate place to carry on with a more vigorous discussion, that will be accepted.

That said, I for one am returning the issue to that of the original poster. I've given my input with regard to that already, as best I know how.

LL already carries an unsatisfactory rating from the RL BBB.

Did you read my very last sentence? I said: "I doublt it though".

If the guy is buying islands LL will have his RL info.

Yeah I was just explaining that this was not just a doubt of yours, it was actually a fact already. Your assumption was correct

LL, if they wanted to, could help out here. They simply choose not to. Many here on the forums taut that as a very big plus that LL stays out of any "governing" of the game. Then some of those same people cry about the outcome of that non governing.

There's a way...........but we have to be willing to give up something in return. But, we won't so Second Life is the wild and wooley west all over again. Charming, in a sense but when you get screwed................hmmmmmmm, another story.

You're just learned about the Second Life economy the hard way. It's set up to allow rip-off artists to make quick money, or at least deprive you of yours.

Linden Labs will entice to do business in it's economy, but offers no dispute resolution help should you feel ripped off.

Since taking some sort of real life legal action is an expensive proposition, in most cases, when you lose money in Second Life, you're better off financially to just eat the loss rather than pursue recovery.

I've been ripped off in the same way you have. The lesson I learned from it is to never spend any money in Second Life that you souldn't mind throwing into a fireplace and never see again. I once spent big, but after enough rip-off, I now rarely spend much more than my weekly stipend from my premium account.

Edit to add that, for the most part, most merchants I've dealt with in Second Life are honest. Given that Second Life is set up to favor the dishonest merchant and punish the honest, it's amazing that there are as many honest merchants as there are. Even so, for me, it's not worth the gamble of a lot of money to find out who's honest and who's not. It's up to you to decide how much you're willing to risk.

So Darien you (your customers) are not facing the biggest problem here, that is the rip off of the entry price. Because i think it's legit for any landlord to close their activity from a day to another if they are up with the monthly fees and didn't have asked an entry price (or are prepared to pay it back), so informing the residents would be just a courtesy (in the end, they are not gonna sleep under a bridge.. we're in Second Life), so the majority of them doesn't care if they need to find a new home, but if they lost their money.
Land frauds are combined when these ppl are asking for big entry prices and weeks (if not months) of fees in advance, collect them all, then they run away... that's the "fraud".

A lot of (new) estate owners are operating at a loss. I compare it with the airline industry. Settled airline companies built up a reputation and very important some cash for bad times. Newcomers are gambling with cheap tickets but go bust due to sky rocking oil prices. Oil prices are unpredictable. Now we go back to SL. Low prices, low tiers etc may be a good instrument but for how long? Many and I mean many estates do have calculated their business on the $195 tier levels. How many residents are prepared to pay more when LL decides to raise tiers?
Can you develop a business model based on a 12-24 month timescale (return on investment), while LL is known to make drastic decisions over night? In my opinion cheap land is a trigger for more land scam due to 3 reasons. 1) The calculated scammers due to lower costs and 2) The amateurs who don't have the skills to develop an estate. Thinking of money and not looking at costs and other vital information. 3) No fun anymore
LL started the devaluation of land. I am almost sure it's part of their business model.
But then again, it's still LL, who knows.
Starting now a business based on low prices and a long term investment is in my opinion a poor decision. LL is going towards open source. First phase we already entered.........
There are plenty good estates around with a solid track record (small and large). Do your homework, before buying. That will solve a lot of the problems in the future